Need B4 Greed

[J1NG]

While I dont disagre with you, I am much more likely to notice it if happens when Im around now that I know who it is. If I judge him to be new, a little turning the other cheek may be in order. But if I judge him to be an a$$hat, I wont run with him if I can help it.

One of the funny things about this whole thread is one of the vocal peeps about calling me out, has a thread up offering to pm the name of someone who offended him in game. But im the one with the big problem here lol too funny

I cannot speak for the others, but I personally feel that the action you describe that you will do is probably more to what the others would feel is more appropriate to the situation (seeing for yourself first) before doing anything more severe about it.

I think it was really the reaction and response that some feel was unjustified and hence were more vocal.

Most just asked for the name and said they'll "blacklist", which can mean all sorts, but generally means completely ignore/squelch, etc. Which goes back to the reaction and response thing above. I'm pretty certain most is just misunderstanding.

J1NG

[Quikster]

I cannot speak for the others, but I personally feel that the action you describe that you will do is probably more to what the others would feel is more appropriate to the situation (seeing for yourself first) before doing anything more severe about it.

I think it was really the reaction and response that some feel was unjustified and hence were more vocal.

Most just asked for the name and said they'll "blacklist", which can mean all sorts, but generally means completely ignore/squelch, etc. Which goes back to the reaction and response thing above. I'm pretty certain most is just misunderstanding.

J1NG

This has been going on since the loot mechanics changed for raids. It will continue to go on until the loot mechanic changes, then it will be a new set of arguments. I lol though when peeps call me selfish and greedy because I think others should give me their raid loot. Which is what most of the argument here is, it just degenerates into a pi$$ing match once everyone proves their points

[Dragonhyde]

lol i agree with quik on that this type of thread will always be around no matter the raid loot system

[J1NG]

This has been going on since the loot mechanics changed for raids. It will continue to go on until the loot mechanic changes, then it will be a new set of arguments. I lol though when peeps call me selfish and greedy because I think others should give me their raid loot. Which is what most of the argument here is, it just degenerates into a pi$$ing match once everyone proves their points

I was not here until the beta, so I am afraid I do not understand the differences in the raid loot mechanics. You'll have to forgive me on that.

However, the point of the thread (original post and early posts) could have been interpreted in various ways, many early on did not seem so much concerened about the loot or how it was got, more so about the principle and stances people were taking in the early posts, and some not wanting to be with someone who "could" be a not nice person. A quick scan showed that many was very short and unprecise and could have been read as "selfish" concerns only. If I may quote your own post as an exmaple?

"pm and guild pls.

your loot your choice.

my groups my choice"

Your post, to anyone not reading it with an open enough mindset, sounds on first read like:

Tell me the name and guild of this offender please (I believe what you said, hence why I'm asking for it). Any character that does the same thing (your loot your choice) (including this one). And I'll not let them in or join them.

Granted, that's just one way of reading into it, but in a heated situation like this, many will misread and misunderstand, as many were not forthcoming with the "bits" that they missed out on their post. Hence, I believe (which could be wrong obviously), some charged in screaming bloomin murder as those that want to keep a sharper eye out for such people.

Of course, that's purely my own speculation and understanding, but that's what it reads like going through the thread again. A misunderstanind between people.

J1NG

[J1NG]

lol i agree with quik on that this type of thread will always be around no matter the raid loot system

Whilst I don't disagree with you there that posts and threads like this will continue, I do believe that there would be less posts and personaly directed posts bordering on attacking, if posts were made a bit more clearer on their actual intention.

J1NG

[Quikster]

I was not here until the beta, so I am afraid I do not understand the differences in the raid loot mechanics. You'll have to forgive me on that.

However, the point of the thread (original post and early posts) could have been interpreted in various ways, many early on did not seem so much concerened about the loot or how it was got, more so about the principle and stances people were taking in the early posts, and some not wanting to be with someone who "could" be a not nice person. A quick scan showed that many was very short and unprecise and could have been read as "selfish" concerns only. If I may quote your own post as an exmaple?

"pm and guild pls.

your loot your choice.

my groups my choice"

Your post, to anyone not reading it with an open enough mindset, sounds on first read like:

Tell me the name and guild of this offender please (I believe what you said, hence why I'm asking for it). Any character that does the same thing (your loot your choice) (including this one). And I'll not let them in or join them.

Granted, that's just one way of reading into it, but in a heated situation like this, many will misread and misunderstand, as many were not forthcoming with the "bits" that they missed out on their post. Hence, I believe (which could be wrong obviously), some charged in screaming bloomin murder as those that want to keep a sharper eye out for such people.

Of course, that's purely my own speculation and understanding, but that's what it reads like going through the thread again. A misunderstanind between people.

J1NG

Your right, I wrote that, and will continue to. Two reasons, first is its a call to war, as threads like this almost always degenerate. Second is, I dont need to explain to the OP if im going to blacklist or not, not really a big deal.

Whilst I don't disagree with you there that posts and threads like this will continue, I do believe that there would be less posts and personaly directed posts bordering on attacking, if posts were made a bit more clearer on their actual intention.

J1NG

Much of this has to do with going a year between mods, and false promises and put offs, and the general bordom of peeps who have been playing this game for a while. You being newer just happened to get stuck in the middle most of us have had this discussion countless times, and know what the results will be on both sides. But heh till football starts what else is there to do on sun morning?

[Kalari]

I got the op's intention he wanted to warn others who raid about someone who will potentially take look they have no use for and keep it if money isnt offered.

Many of us think thats crappy and do not wish to play with someone like that. We are being called socialists, nazi's and entitled elitists cause we feel that way.

Id rather be a labeled a bad gal by someone who dont know me and only goes by a situation that I think requires a team mentality and avoid them. Then to go "well its their loot let them sell a bound +3 tome to a vendor instead of sharing the wealth."

Ive made my intention clear I believe that people who share benefit from the game while those who pull what was mentioned in the op will find it hard to get into groups with people who do share. Like it or dont thats my feeling and I pay to play the game to I dont see any reason not to be generous with loot but I guess im wrong for feeling that way.

[J1NG]

Your right, I wrote that, and will continue to. Two reasons, first is its a call to war, as threads like this almost always degenerate. Second is, I dont need to explain to the OP if im going to blacklist or not, not really a big deal.

Much of this has to do with going a year between mods, and false promises and put offs, and the general bordom of peeps who have been playing this game for a while. You being newer just happened to get stuck in the middle most of us have had this discussion countless times, and know what the results will be on both sides. But heh till football starts what else is there to do on sun morning?

Well, although not a big deal, it will reduce the amount that anyone will make any posts that are more personally directed at you in a negative fashion. Which was what I was directing more towards in your post about being singled out or directed at. Not really to end everything. Since there's always a pest somewhere that will cause trouble (not saying anyone, but an example only ).

Some write more, some less. Personally, I just like to make sure people understand me and so I write more. Each to their own.

J1NG

[Quikster]

Well, although not a big deal, it will reduce the amount that anyone will make any posts that are more personally directed at you in a negative fashion. Which was what I was directing more towards in your post about being singled out or directed at. Not really to end everything. Since there's always a pest somewhere that will cause trouble (not saying anyone, but an example only ).

Some write more, some less. Personally, I just like to make sure people understand me and so I write more. Each to their own.

J1NG

No I hear ya. Its kinda a title to a philosophy. Many used to respond with your loot your choice. thats why i added in the last part. Trust me the peeps that called me out, would have done so if I wrote out my whole raid loot philosophy (as they did after I did). Glad to see youre getting your feet wet with a nice thread though

[J1NG]

No I hear ya. Its kinda a title to a philosophy. Many used to respond with your loot your choice. thats why i added in the last part. Trust me the peeps that called me out, would have done so if I wrote out my whole raid loot philosophy (as they did after I did). Glad to see youre getting your feet wet with a nice thread though

Ahhh, I see. You'll have to forgive me for not knowing that as it's stuff before my time so to speak. Like how I was told by someone I met in the beta who gave me the history of the marketplace being blown up, and the older mods etc. Stuff I won't get much info about just from the beta/mod9.

Kalari:

I think the problem was many others did "NOT" get the original posters intention of warning others only. And the original post and posts after which were "short and sweet" (and to the point, but to the old timers only) wasn't really helping with any new comers that joined in later to understand that they mean to watch and not outright ban/blacklist. And decided to jump in there to defend a morally just point (only they didn't get the whole thing). Which wasn't helped by the older lot going in short and sweet only. (Personally, the thread title was, I feel, a poor choice, as it utilises words that hit home to many people in different fashions quickly, hence the easy conflict of opinions)

That's just my opinion of what happened here, I can't speak for all threads though.

J1NG

[bruha118]

No, it is whining and immature. You didn't get what you wanted, so you are throwing a hissy. Used to watch my daughter do it all the time, when she was 3. So glad she is 11 now and more mature.

if u accually read the thread u woulda seen were i said i didnt need the tome...it really amazes me the amount of ppl on this thread that keep saying "immature" "whining"....so if those r the words u r gonna use better fit urself into that catagory...cause ur on the forums and on this thread just like everyone else...this thread was meant for ppl who share the same view as i do about the situation....not for the "immature" "whiny" ppl to come on here and whine about my thread...if u dont agree wit my thread then get off it...this is the 2nd time i ever posted a thread so for me to come on here wit some bs story (that someone in this thread said) would benifit me how? My view is simply DDO etiqutte, need b4 greed, do unto others, give and u shall receicve, karma

[croger1520033]

Having read through some responses here I have to say I am amazed at the entitlement a lot of you people demonstrate. Personally all of the people who responded "PM me his name..." are only demonstrating gullibility. It should also be noted that this falls under the DDO harassment policy and would result in disciplinary action.

Why do I say this?

First, your showing "entitlement" because you believe someone "should" give up something that YOU BELIEVE they dont "need". In this example, yes the Wizard did state that he did not need it and was willing to part with it for a fee. Upon no one offering to pay for it, he decided to keep it. There is nothing wrong with that! Even if he had already used a +3 CHR tome on that character before, vendor trashing that tome would at least get him SOMETHING rather then nothing. I find it hard to believe that out of all the people present, no one could at least pony up 10k PP for a +3 Tome

Second, your showing your gullibility because your willing to put someone on ignore based ONLY on someone posting a statement of thier supposedly doing something wrong in game. Did you ever stop to think that maybe you willingness to do that could be abused by someone? Ever think there are some ******** in this game who would possibly come on the forums with a made up story and get you to start ignoring someone who doesn't deserve to be ignored?

By all means let someone else work you into a frenzy!
Go gather your pitchforks becuase someone said there is a monster in the old farm!

I 100% agree +1 rep for you man. Some people just don't understand that though unfortunately.

[Sweyn]

A lot of ppl say in the forums "It's your loot, do what you want" in these type of threads. But i bet if you needed something, and grinded for it forever and something like this hapened, you would not be cool with it. Yes, you do have the right to do whatever you want with your loot, but it's the principle of being selfish and what morals you live by. Many ppl don't want to group with ppl like that.

[Arnya]

Like a couple of peeps have said, it seems to be the people who want to avoid this kind of behaviour have character and guild names in sig....

All you other posters who cry foul at us wanting to avoid bad DDO etiquitte - why the smokescreen guys?

Who are your characters? Are you even on this server or just here to stir? Are you already on peoples lists and know it?

Besides, I would rather gear up a guildie or raid ally.... they will be there with me next time I raid and it may be karma's time to smile on me.... Heck, giving a +3 tome to a complete stranger only strengthens the server as a whole.

[Aranticus]

And again it's based on your perception of need. I took it so that I have an easier time tanking suulomades. My guild runs vod quite regularly so that our casters and clerics can get the gloves/ bracers. The shield really helps when u turtle up when the orthons come

Also define need. Does a cleric need to turn stuff at L16? Does a cleric need imp devotion? I run 2 clerics and I can tell you the answer is no. It's good to have not a need thou

Sometimes they're right...

That's one of those pulls situations (like a fighter taking the StormReaver napkin) where I would consider blackballing you... but I usually don't because hey maybe the guy is new and didn't know better.

You've been around and know better.

Sure a ranger can get some use out of it... about 5% of what a cleric would get out of it. (nice shield blocking DR is the only thing I can think of. and how often does THAT come up?). You were an ass to take such a rare drop over a cleric.

I'm cool with anyone eating any tome... I'm not cool with someone vendoring a bound tome... I'm cool with 95% of items being used by strange builds... They may actually have a use for it...

A shield that gives better turning, and Improved Devotion VIII (when part of a set)? That falls in the 5% of items that are so narrowly focused that it's obvious who can use it and who can't...

Rangers can't turn, and if a ranger wants to up his healing power, he can easily find Superior Devotion IV on a single wearable item (and not need a set) that will allow him to heal better AND keep using TWF (instead of pulling out a shield).

So yeah, you're free to take it... and I'm free to note your name...

[croger1520033]

Here is the problem that most of the people talking about blacklisting don't seem to understand. If an item drops for someone (doesn't matter who), most of the time if you can't use it you have an idea of what you want to get for that item. Whether it be a +3 tome, WoP pre mod 9, banishing rapier...whatever. You aren't likely to just hand those items over to a stranger for free, most people will give it to a friend or sell it on the ah. Now this is where the entitlement comes from, slap bound on that item and people automatically want it for free...***??

The wizard didn't just say I don't need so I am going to vendor it, he said I don't need it anyone want to buy it. Totally reasonable. Now because the guys who wanted it were to cheap to pony up money they are all mad at the wizard. They think that by not offering him any money now he should just give it to them for free. I ask why?? Like has been said before if I can make 2,000 gp on it over giving it away for free, I am gonna do what helps me out.

If you want free loot do what the plat farmers did. join groups and sit at the entrance and do nothing, then come back when quest is done and loot. If that +3 tome cause this much of a problem it obviously something that is of high value, otherwise we wouldn't be sitting at 8 pages, so I ask again if it is so valuable why do you expect everyone to give it to you for free?? If someone does awesome that dude was cool, if they don't give it to you and ask for money, if you need it so bad pony up the dough. To come here and say that guy was selfish is just plain wrong.

[Burradin]

Well. . .unfortunately almost ALL of the people who are on the other side of the issue from us--do not have their names in their sigs. . .

Why, you need to do some more witch hunting? Some don't fool with names in sigs because they are either not vain enough to try to show off. Some re-roll characters enough that they change names. Some just don't care. My main is there if you feel shallow enough to blacklist me for thinking a fellow who pays to play a GAME can do what he wants with the loot he receives in said game. Now personally, I have given up +3 tomes and plenty other loot when it did not benefit my toon over the last 3 years. But that is my choice. I refuse to run in a group that posts rolling on loot, because I gladly give when I don't need/want, but don't attempt to tell me what I am gonna do.

It is like the lottery, you got to pay to play and occasionally someone wins. Don't hate the winner. Don't blame them for you luck or lack of winning.

[HumanJHawkins]

so i had the pleasure of doing a reaver earlier all went well till we popped the chest and lone and behold a +3 chr tome...it dropped for a wiz who stated he didnt need it and was taken offers...there was about 5 other ppl in grp that could have used it (sorcs and rogues)...no one offered him anything but the chance to roll for it...hes says negative and loots the tome...imo if he needed it loot it but he didnt so let ppl roll on it and dont be greedy...this just a friendly reminder that this IS a grinding game so dont be greedy

The tradition of giving raid loot away is awesome. And Yinyang is awesome too (as is Viiktor who chimed in to agree). But here's another view:

Say there's a guy who has been playing for 3 years and doesn't reroll much. Maybe he is decked out to the hilt with dual mineral II on all his toons. Then he loots a +3 Holy Silver Rapier of Pure Good that he doesn't need at all.

The expectation is that he will pull it and either sell it on the forums, or sell it on the auction house for a huge amount, right? Nobody has a problem with this because it isn't raid loot, and because there is a big market for that item. So people think you would be crazy not to sell it.

But then you have a guy who is on his first high level toon... A Wizard. The guy has maybe 100K plat to his name, and he loots a +3 tome that he doesn't need. The only problem is that it is bound, so the market for this item is small... at max, 11 people. He attempts to sell it, knowing that 4-5 of these people are old timers who want it, and they all have 2000K plat in the bank. Even though the thing is worth 2000K easily, he is willing to take 100 or 200K.

However, none of these people make an offer, and they all start blacklisting him for attempting to sell it. And the most funny thing of all is they call him greedy.

5 people who already have nearly everything they need are in group wanting to get some other guy's insanely rare and valuable loot for free, but the guy who decides to take his own loot is the greedy one. Lol. I see it the other way around.

[Burradin]

A lot of ppl say in the forums "It's your loot, do what you want" in these type of threads. But i bet if you needed something, and grinded for it forever and something like this hapened, you would not be cool with it. Yes, you do have the right to do whatever you want with your loot, but it's the principle of being selfish and what morals you live by. Many ppl don't want to group with ppl like that.

In 3 plus years seen it happen to me many times. Have not blacklisted the person or come to the forums to cry about it. I just continued to play to get what I wanted.

[Burradin]

if u accually read the thread u woulda seen were i said i didnt need the tome...it really amazes me the amount of ppl on this thread that keep saying "immature" "whining"....so if those r the words u r gonna use better fit urself into that catagory...cause ur on the forums and on this thread just like everyone else...this thread was meant for ppl who share the same view as i do about the situation....not for the "immature" "whiny" ppl to come on here and whine about my thread...if u dont agree wit my thread then get off it...this is the 2nd time i ever posted a thread so for me to come on here wit some bs story (that someone in this thread said) would benifit me how? My view is simply DDO etiqutte, need b4 greed, do unto others, give and u shall receicve, karma

I have read the whole thread. Did not say that you wanted/needed the tome. You wanted to come to the forums to whine. Mission accomplished. There was no reason for this thread to have ever existed. Immature is coming here because things did not go the way you think they should. Welcome to the real world. Might want to keep your eyes open, it is a jungle out there.