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  1. #1
    Community Member krud's Avatar
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    Default first WF, Machineato - lvl20 kensai

    OK, I'm thinking about making my first WF. Nothing real fancy, just a TWF khopesh wielding pure kensai fighter. I will call him Machineato - the walking blender.

    I'm a total WF noob, so any advice is good advice. With plenty of feats to spare I figure I could focus on dr. I should have a passive dr9 (addy body, two dr enhancements, and 5 dr feats). Is the DR a worthwhile pursuit or just plain stupid?

    here's what I had in mind:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.08
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    Machineato 
    Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
    (20 Fighter) 
    Hit Points: 382
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 9
    Will: 4
                    Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    26
    Dexterity            16                    17
    Constitution         16                    18
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                6                     6
    Charisma              6                     6
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
     
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
    Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
    Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
    Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery III
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
    Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
    Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
    Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
    Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I
    Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction II
    Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
    Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
    Ghallanda: Neatoelf15wiz/1rgr, Neetoelf17wiz, NeatoManhuman13rog/6pal/1mnk, NeatoHombrehuman12ftr/6pal/2rog, Kneetoedwarf17clr, Kneedoughdrow18clr/2mnk

    Minimize expectations and you'll never be disappointed

  2. #2

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    your damage reduction will come in useful when you are commanded. 6 wis and nothing to boost will saves is a good way to die. this is what i recommend, reduce IDR to 3 and add iron will and bullheaded (helps with intimidate too!)
    If you want to know why...

  3. #3
    Founder binnsr's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aranticus View Post
    your damage reduction will come in useful when you are commanded. 6 wis and nothing to boost will saves is a good way to die. this is what i recommend, reduce IDR to 3 and add iron will and bullheaded (helps with intimidate too!)
    I approve of this message.
    -=]ArchAngels[=-

  4. #4
    Community Member Absolute-Omniscience's Avatar
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    Default

    Go with
    18
    15
    14
    8
    10
    6

    20 less hp. +2 will save.
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    EU player since release, US player since the summer of 2009.

  5. #5
    Founder Roman's Avatar
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    You only need enough dex to pick up GTwF. If you ever plan on making any attempt at AC, at least get int to a base 10 so you can pickup CE with a +3 int tome if you decide later on.

    18 str costs a lot of build points. is that last +1 to hit, +1 damage really worth it? Even if you dont get int to a 10 base I think you would be better served with higher will saves vs. the +1 hit/dmg from 18 str.
    .: Reaper :.
    Kongo - TR | Brolik - Warforged Ranger | Bonemender - Clerimonk | Torqata - Warforged Sorcerer | Fresco - Tempest III UMD | Ognok - Intimi Guard Tank

  6. #6
    Community Member krud's Avatar
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    Default

    if I put on a wisdom item and spend a +2tome on him I may get an 8 unbuffed will save. If I follow recommendations with a 10 wis and those two feats I'll have a 13 unbuffed will save. Is that going to be high enough? Most of my other toons got 20+ will saves so I'm not so familiar with the low end of the spectrum.

    No initimdate, or meaningful AC expected on this guy. plus, I don't throw pp around for tomes, so minimal tomeage is preferred.
    Last edited by krud; 08-28-2009 at 10:43 PM.
    Ghallanda: Neatoelf15wiz/1rgr, Neetoelf17wiz, NeatoManhuman13rog/6pal/1mnk, NeatoHombrehuman12ftr/6pal/2rog, Kneetoedwarf17clr, Kneedoughdrow18clr/2mnk

    Minimize expectations and you'll never be disappointed

  7. #7
    Community Member krud's Avatar
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    Default

    Str 16
    Dex 16
    Con 16
    Int 8
    Wis 12
    Cha 6

    and iron will, bullheaded, and 3idr (7dr total)?
    Last edited by krud; 08-28-2009 at 10:56 PM.
    Ghallanda: Neatoelf15wiz/1rgr, Neetoelf17wiz, NeatoManhuman13rog/6pal/1mnk, NeatoHombrehuman12ftr/6pal/2rog, Kneetoedwarf17clr, Kneedoughdrow18clr/2mnk

    Minimize expectations and you'll never be disappointed

  8. #8
    Founder Roman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krud View Post
    if I put on a wisdom item and spend a +2tome on him I may get an 8 unbuffed will save. If I follow recommendations with a 10 wis and those two feats I'll have a 13 unbuffed will save. Is that going to be high enough? Most of my other toons got 20+ will saves so I'm not so familiar with the low end of the spectrum.

    No initimdate, or meaningful AC expected on this guy. plus, I don't throw pp around for tomes, so minimal tomeage is preferred.
    13 unbuffed
    +3 Warforged enhancement
    +4 GH
    +3/6 Shroud item (GS Wis item and/or +2, +1 will save)
    +6 Belt of Tongue
    __
    29/32 Will save

    I personally think will saves are important and with some equipment and planning you can achieve a very good will save. Afterall, DPS is zero when your laying on your back.
    Last edited by Roman; 08-28-2009 at 11:17 PM.
    .: Reaper :.
    Kongo - TR | Brolik - Warforged Ranger | Bonemender - Clerimonk | Torqata - Warforged Sorcerer | Fresco - Tempest III UMD | Ognok - Intimi Guard Tank

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    You only need enough dex to pick up GTwF. If you ever plan on making any attempt at AC, at least get int to a base 10 so you can pickup CE with a +3 int tome if you decide later on.

    18 str costs a lot of build points. is that last +1 to hit, +1 damage really worth it? Even if you dont get int to a 10 base I think you would be better served with higher will saves vs. the +1 hit/dmg from 18 str.
    i would rather lower dex to 15 and use a +2 dex tome than to lower str to 16
    If you want to know why...

  10. #10
    Community Member Absolute-Omniscience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krud View Post
    Str 16
    Dex 16
    Con 16
    Int 8
    Wis 12
    Cha 6

    and iron will, bullheaded, and 3idr (7dr total)?
    18 strength, don't even think about lowering it.
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    EU player since release, US player since the summer of 2009.

  11. #11
    Community Member krud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    18 strength, don't even think about lowering it.
    Are will saves for a WF that important or not, considering they are immune to many hold/paralysis effects? What's a good buffed will save to avoid lying on my back in current end game? 15? 20? 25? Aside from the shroud gnoll, where else do they throw around greater command? I hardly ever see command anywhere else (or at least I hardly ever notice it).

    The main thing to consider is I can't stand builds that require grinding must-have loot in order to make them work (I'm grumpy that way). I build my toons to do what they are supposed to with minimal twinkage in mind. I don't feel so bad deleting them if I haven't spent gobs of tomes or larges on them. With that in mind the trade off doesn't seem so bad.

    16 str/12 wis = +3 will save, -1tohit, -1damage

    18str/10wis/14con/15dex = +2will save, -20hp, +2dex tome required
    Last edited by krud; 08-29-2009 at 10:41 AM.
    Ghallanda: Neatoelf15wiz/1rgr, Neetoelf17wiz, NeatoManhuman13rog/6pal/1mnk, NeatoHombrehuman12ftr/6pal/2rog, Kneetoedwarf17clr, Kneedoughdrow18clr/2mnk

    Minimize expectations and you'll never be disappointed

  12. #12
    Founder Roman's Avatar
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    During each mod, you will find a handful of ideas to min/max a build for the current content. Many times these types of builds "break" at the slightest change in game mechanics. Hence the the term FoTM (Flavor of The Month). Maybe an argument can be made that will saves are a non issue today, except maybe for the gnoll in shroud. But I see that as just a foreshadow of challenges to come.

    Surely future content will exploit the greatest weaknesses of each class, and for fighters that is the will save.

    For example, In mod 9, we already have a new spell that may prove to be even more annoying than Dispel.

    Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
    Level: Sor/Wiz 9
    A powerful force disrupts magical effects on the target, removing ongoing spells that have been cast on a target. You must make a caster level check of 1d20 + your caster level (no maximum) versus 11 + the spell's caster level to remove a spell effect, and
    your target must make a Will save for each equipped item or all magical properties on them are temporarily disabled.

    I think we will see more attacks like this in future updates, aimed at a classes weakness. I have personally found min/maxing and trying to guess the future a frustrating exercise. I advocate balanced builds, and reducing rather than ignoring a classes weaknesses.
    .: Reaper :.
    Kongo - TR | Brolik - Warforged Ranger | Bonemender - Clerimonk | Torqata - Warforged Sorcerer | Fresco - Tempest III UMD | Ognok - Intimi Guard Tank

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