14 Fighter-6 Rog Build

[poonce]

looking for feedback on this build also. Want alot of Dps and Hp's not sure if i should take Intimidate though, dont think it will be high enogh to matter.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.06
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Durken Stonecleaver
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(14 Fighter \ 6 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 418
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 13
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    30
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         17                    22
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    16
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         3                     6
Diplomacy             0                     0
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     2
Heal                  1                    10
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate            2                    21
Jump                  8                    23
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    0.5
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                     1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  4                    10
Tumble                7                    12
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

Discuss. i.e, whats good about this build and whats bad about it.

[poonce]

would i be able to get a decent Ac with this guy wearing +5 Mith or should i lean more toward DT Outfit or Icy Rainments?

[Renvar]

I'm working a fighter/rogue build now. Currently at 8/4. I like it. It is really fun. A couple comments, though. Your will save is a bit low. Also, for a strength build, your dex is high and you are putting points in it. As your skills do not show any points in MS or Hide or OL, I'm not sure why you need such a high dex. Take some from there and put it in Wis to bolster the will save, or better yet, put it in CHA and take force of personality. Then rework your skills to get UMD maxed. You will not affect DPS and will have a better will save with the ability to self heal and be more flexible. I notice you putting points in things like perform and concentration as well. Streamline these into things that are useful, like UMD, Balance, Intimidate, Jump, etc and max these out. You have enough rogue levels to have decent skill points and max a couple skills.

It's a fun build though. Enjoy it.

[Quikster]

nm I read it wrong

[poonce]

I'm working a fighter/rogue build now. Currently at 8/4. I like it. It is really fun. A couple comments, though. Your will save is a bit low. Also, for a strength build, your dex is high and you are putting points in it. As your skills do not show any points in MS or Hide or OL, I'm not sure why you need such a high dex. Take some from there and put it in Wis to bolster the will save, or better yet, put it in CHA and take force of personality. Then rework your skills to get UMD maxed. You will not affect DPS and will have a better will save with the ability to self heal and be more flexible. I notice you putting points in things like perform and concentration as well. Streamline these into things that are useful, like UMD, Balance, Intimidate, Jump, etc and max these out. You have enough rogue levels to have decent skill points and max a couple skills.

It's a fun build though. Enjoy it.

Thanks for noticing the Dex thing, that was an accident. I need 17 Dex to get Gtwf, so i started it @ 15 added +2 Dex tome to make it 17 then enhancment points to even the Number out.

Edit, the Force of personality thing isnt a bad idea, i dont really need great cleave
Edit 2, But then i wouldnt be able to get GtwF

[poonce]

Think i should take the Rog Lvls first? go all 6 rog then the rest fighter?

[Renvar]

Why not? If you eat a +2 tome and take the rogue dex enhancement with a 14 Dex starting, you end with a 17. Isnt that all you need? Shave a point from con or str as well and you can have a Char or Wis around 11-13. Add a tome to that and you have changed the -1 from wis on your will save to a +3. With a +6 item you will be moving that Will save from a 5 to a 12. Without Resistance item or other addon affects. You should be able to get it buffed into the low twenties.

And if you did Cha, you could easily get your UMD into the mid 30's with the right items. Good for Heal's, etc.

If you did Wis, you could look at a monk level in there somewhere and your AC would get a +5.

It's worth a thought. I went with the CHA route on my toon, but I would like a higher AC...

[Renvar]

I mixed my rogue levels in so far, because I am trapsmithing and UMD on my build and I want to keep them advancing as I level. Some builds are designed to be great at endgame, but not so along the way. I just saw a Favored Soul/Rogue build that was 18/2 with one rogue level to start, 18 FS levels and then a rogue level to end it. The build was touting evasion as a benefit of the build, but you have to get all the way to level 20 before you get it. I think you should do it in a way that will be fun and enjoyable to level as well as be effective at the end.

All the rogue levels up front will affect your skill points results (you will not be maxed on many skills at end) and will also affect your playstyle in the mid-levels. It will take a while for your fighter levels to provide the HP and frontline melee capabilities you are wanting.

[poonce]

According to the Character planner, i have to make my Dex 15 and eat a +2 Tome to get Itwf and Gtwf. doing it 14 + a +2 tome and 1 dex enhancment wont let me get them. So the Pre's are for Base, whick i guess Tomes add to and not enhancments.

So i guess ill have to live with the bad will saves and maybe eat +2 Wis Tome later, + a +6 item

About my AC though, should i go with Armor? or because ill have a High dex go with outfits? I do want decent Ac sooo . .

[Aranticus]

Why not? If you eat a +2 tome and take the rogue dex enhancement with a 14 Dex starting, you end with a 17. Isnt that all you need?

wrong, the qualification of feats only depend on base, tome and level up points. enhancements do not count. alternatively, what he could do is to put 14 dex and then grind for a +3 dex tome

Shave a point from con or str as well and you can have a Char or Wis around 11-13. Add a tome to that and you have changed the -1 from wis on your will save to a +3. With a +6 item you will be moving that Will save from a 5 to a 12. Without Resistance item or other addon affects. You should be able to get it buffed into the low twenties.

boosting wis at the expense of str is pointless. the OP's aim is dps, he is already missing the fighter capstone and tempest, he needs all the str he has. what does 12 wis represents? a +2 to will save. i noted 3 pointless feats in his build, power critical, cleave and great cleave. dropping them and taking iron will, bull headed and luck of heros will add +4 to will save. he also has critical accuracy III and IV which costs 7 APs but have no additional purposes, dropping them and picking up dwarven spell resistance for 6 APs will net him +3 more to spell saves bring it to a total of +7

And if you did Cha, you could easily get your UMD into the mid 30's with the right items. Good for Heal's, etc.

23 ranks, +3 cartouche, +4 GH, +6 cha shroud item, +2 cha, +2 hogf = 40. why does he even need investment in cha?

If you did Wis, you could look at a monk level in there somewhere and your AC would get a +5.

will that be enough for his dex to fill out robes? that is the question

It's worth a thought. I went with the CHA route on my toon, but I would like a higher AC...

sorry to say but there are some very bad build suggestions here

OP, you can qualify fighter haste boost IV with 14 lvls of fighter, why choose rog boost?

[Renvar]

You are correct on the GTWF requirement. The OP already noted that. I just didnt go back and edit my post to correct. Additionally, it wasn't a statement it was a question. I tend to run Elves and Drow, so I've not experienced that issue before on the TWF builds I've done.

I was just looking for a way to boost his will save. I agree with you about the reallocation of feats and AP. Using those to boost the will save is a great way to preserve the dex and str at the OP's original level. I'm not sure I'd call the feats and Enhancements pointless, but not as valuable as addressing other areas of need. A much better solve. And I like that much better than grinding for a +3 dex tome.

The UMD idea was just a way to get more value out of the points in CHA. Not really required. When I was quoting, I wanted to give numbers that would be realistic without grinding a Head of Good Fortune or grinding shroud greensteel items and weapons.

I get the concept of max builds and gear grinding and being uber and all, but I think a toon should be fun to level as well as be fun endgame. Bottom line, I think the build would be fun and effective either way. Your suggestions will definitely create a more maximized result especially if the OP grinds for high end gear.

All that said, I disagree that my suggestions were "very bad". A point of difference in str OR con would not have ruined the build. It would still be an effective toon.

[Aranticus]

I was just looking for a way to boost his will save. I agree with you about the reallocation of feats and AP. Using those to boost the will save is a great way to preserve the dex and str at the OP's original level. I'm not sure I'd call the feats and Enhancements pointless, but not as valuable as addressing other areas of need. A much better solve. And I like that much better than grinding for a +3 dex tome.

they are pointless, let me explain. for cleave and great cleave, it breaks your attack chain when you use them. not only that, there is also a time delay which lowers your DPS. in early game. cleave and great cleave is extremely useful for knocking out a large number of low hp mobs but at end game, the hp is so inflated that its use is diminished

as for the power critical feat and enhancements, any L20 toon that maxes out on str using a +5 weapon should not have any problems hitting most mobs on a roll of 2. if you have no problems hitting a mob on a roll of 2, you have no problems confirming the crit. more importantly, most people who are going to grind it will have a bloodstone which gives +6 to confirm crit. the only day i take these feats and enhancements is when they provide crit damage like bloodstone does

The UMD idea was just a way to get more value out of the points in CHA. Not really required. When I was quoting, I wanted to give numbers that would be realistic without grinding a Head of Good Fortune or grinding shroud greensteel items and weapons.

I get the concept of max builds and gear grinding and being uber and all, but I think a toon should be fun to level as well as be fun endgame. Bottom line, I think the build would be fun and effective either way. Your suggestions will definitely create a more maximized result especially if the OP grinds for high end gear.

All that said, I disagree that my suggestions were "very bad". A point of difference in str OR con would not have ruined the build. It would still be an effective toon.

the OP included +3 and +4 tomes which is an indication of grinding raids. hogf is not hard to grind. at max you only need 10 weeks. shroud greensteel is even easier. you can buy the ingredients with plat

i fully understand the concept of min/maxing as well as that of newbie players. my approach would have been different if the OP intention is a non twinking build. that is why i say the suggestions are bad. you approach different builds with different mindsets. you cant offer a powergamer newbie tips, neither do you offer a newbie powergaming tips

[Renvar]

Point taken. If he's going to include +4 tomes in the build we should respond with suggestions for a twinked, grind end-game build. I missed that on the OP. The rest of the skills, saves, AP, and feat allocations lead me to think of a non-powergaming, concept build that was looking for more general advice.

[redraider]

Make a mobster (12/6/2 ftr/rgr/rog) or monster (12/6/2 ftr/rgr/mnk) rather than 14/6. You will thank yourself. The monster has higher 2 wep AC, the mobster has umd, intim, and rog skillz. You can find the builds on the forums.

[poonce]

I took the Rog Haste boosts because its a Pre for Rog Theif Acrobat. Ill definatly take out them 3 feats though and do what you said. I Dont know much about this game and am trying to learn. I just know that the 6 Lvl rog will give me good sneak Dps and the fighter to hit and dps is good also, so i put them togather . .

[poonce]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.06
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Durken Stonecleaver
Level 20 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(14 Fighter \ 6 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 418
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 15
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    28
Dexterity            15                    20
Constitution         17                    22
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    17
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         3                     6
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     2
Heal                  1                     1
Hide                  3                     5
Intimidate            2                    20
Jump                  9                    15
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    0.5
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                     1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  5                     9
Tumble                7                    13
Use Magic Device      2                    21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Defense


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR

I can only take 2 of the 3 feats you suggested because i have to take a class Feat, so i think the 2 i added are the best choices.

[Aranticus]

I took the Rog Haste boosts because its a Pre for Rog Theif Acrobat. Ill definatly take out them 3 feats though and do what you said. I Dont know much about this game and am trying to learn. I just know that the 6 Lvl rog will give me good sneak Dps and the fighter to hit and dps is good also, so i put them togather . .

acrobat with staff is a very attractive alternative as well

[Quikster]

I took the Rog Haste boosts because its a Pre for Rog Theif Acrobat. Ill definatly take out them 3 feats though and do what you said. I Dont know much about this game and am trying to learn. I just know that the 6 Lvl rog will give me good sneak Dps and the fighter to hit and dps is good also, so i put them togather . .

not sure I would bother with TAI.

[Aranticus]

not sure I would bother with TAI.

there is very little reason to take acrobat I and hence my opinion is that spending AP on attaining it is very wasteful. i rather go rog12 to get acrobat 2 and use staff

[gamblerjoe]

any build that is a rogue splash almost allways takes a rogue level first, so yes there. yes on intimidate too, as long as u max out your ranks, it doesnt matter what your cha is. my wf barb with 6 cha can intim the devils in the shroud just fine as long as he throws on a +6 cha item, and a decent intim item. as far as the orthons in vod, intim is such a staple, as are bards, that they will hit u with inspire competence, gh, and the cleric will most likely even prayer you.

as far as suggesting other builds, i assume u know how to look up builds on the forum. if u wanted to make a carbon copy of someone else's build you wouldnt have taken the time to work on this one. weather or not its a good build, im sure you have fun doing it. personally i think exploiters are cheezy, they are just too good, and they take the flavor out of agonizing over build aspects. as far as the mobster and monster builds, i am not impressed. i saw that guys little video which is composed of 20 second segments in which he has his fighter haste boost up. i have no idea how that cought on, except for the fact that this game is too easy for an mmo, and just about anything can be forced to work decently. there is no real way to test a character. i remember in EQ2, there was a berserker in my guild that could solo "Nest" when the cap was 70. now THAT was something almost no one could do (and in fact the game was supposed to be designed so that people couldnt solo high level quests.)