Crossbows - Any reason to use over bows?

[elyssaria]

Greetings everyone!

I started to look into ranged weapons and I have very very hard to see a reason why I should use a crossbow over a longbow. The sole reason behind this is that Bow Strenght is way to much useful so I assume I would do less damage with a crossbow then with a longbow even though the base damage is lower on the longbows. And this is not even counting in that elves get enhancements that adds to longbow damage and attack.

So now I need your input cause I may fail to see the the complete picture of this issue.

Looking forward to you replies!

Best Regards!

/Ely

[Aeneas]

Short answer bows are better.


However, in a few cases you might do better with a xbow.

For instance - a banishing longbow is just this side of useless, however a banishing great xbow with the right feats can be pretty sweet (same goes for smiting) because the crit range is so much larger.

In terms of dps, stick with bows. Bow strength and a decent str score paired with elven enhancements and multishot blow the xbows out of the water.

[Arkat]

No doubt about it that Bow Strength is VERY nice and should defnitely be used over regular Heavy and Light Crossbows.

Repeating Crossbows (especially Heavy) with Rapid Reload and Rapid Shot have got to be seriously considered.

I have several stories related to my Heavy Repeater build toon (Gilgamesh on Khyber) that may at least get you to think about using Heavy Repeaters on a regular basis.

[Impaqt]

Crossbows - Any reason to use?

Repeating Crossbows are a different thing altogether. Characters can be made to efectively sue them without a doubt.

[Strakeln]

Answer: today, no.

Way, way, WAY back when (L10 or maybe 12 cap), there was good reason to use Xbows. Uber bows were far and few between, but the uber xbows were available, and the larger crit range made them fairly effective. I remember farming DQ1 and blowing people away with how a banishing xbow took care of the mephits.

Again, uber weaps in general such as paralyzers and banishers were extremely rare back then.

[Angelus_dead]

I started to look into ranged weapons and I have very very hard to see a reason why I should use a crossbow over a longbow.

Because you're a cleric, wizard, or sorcerer and not also an elf, meaning you don't know how to use a longbow. That's why.

Crossbows are easier to learn, so it makes sense that they're not as good. However, there is still minimal reason to use a ranged weapon at all, and a returning dagger would be more convenient for those occasional needs.

[elyssaria]

Thank you all for your relies..

Although my fears are partly confirmed then yet I am a bit interested in the Repeating Crossbow.

What feats would you consider necessary for a Repeating Crossbow Build?

Also this Banishing prefix what does that actually do more precisely?

Pardon my lack of knowledge but I am merely a new player to ddo that recently subscribed to be ready for the release of Eberron: Unlimited.

Thanks in advance!

/Ely

[Zaal]

The Repeating Crossbow (RC) requires the use of a feat.

DEX is importnat here both for TO HIT and for DAMAGE so, unlike bows, STR is not an issue here... I have a build running around with a base 8 STR and wields an array of Heavy RC's and as far as I am concerned is quite effective - especially with IMPROVED CRIT PIECE feat and an array of BURST / BANE repeaters. I have this HOLY BURST of EVIL OUTSIDER BANE hrc that tears our shroud pit fiend to bitz. All my damage is RED and I can continue to do gamage when the clerics are out of mana.

Banishing can force "outsider" back to their plane (ie, kill em!). Hoping I don't dumb it down too far but, things "born" in another dimension that make theur way to ours can be banished...

[Zenako]

Zaal, you might want to be picking up the Improved Crit: Ranged feat as well, since the IMP Crit Pierce only affects melee. (I learned this the hard way a long long time ago.)

[Angelus_dead]

repeaters. I have this HOLY BURST of EVIL OUTSIDER BANE hrc that tears our shroud pit fiend to bitz. All my damage is RED and I can continue to do gamage when the clerics are out of mana.

Uh, maybe if you had a higher DPS in the first place, the Pit Fiend would die before their spellpoints ran out.

[Zaal]

Uh, maybe if you had a higher DPS in the first place, the Pit Fiend would die before their spellpoints ran out.

Here we go... someone always seems to wants to chime in on the build decision to go HRC rather than pure meele - however I did expect that you of all people would be more open to different play styles and not a cookie cutter approach.

Your personal attack is unwanted. Troll someone else.

[elyssaria]

The Repeating Crossbow (RC) requires the use of a feat.

DEX is importnat here both for TO HIT and for DAMAGE

Hmmm this got me curious... you say DEX are important for damage. Would you mind explaining that a bit more?

/Ely

[Aranticus]

Hmmm this got me curious... you say DEX are important for damage. Would you mind explaining that a bit more?

/Ely

if you miss you dun do damage

[Zaal]

Hmmm this got me curious... you say DEX are important for damage. Would you mind explaining that a bit more?

/Ely

A bow's damamge comes from your strength , your ability to pull the bow string back. You'd think once you reached the breaking point of the bow that you'd no longer be able to do more damage but that law of physics doesn't apply here.

For a crossbow, you instead crank a handle to add tension to the string and eventually you lock the string in place - so I suppose it goes that since the sting will always have the same tension, strength doesn't come into play.

In a roundabout way it's like weapons finesse where your effectiveness is based on how well you essentially aim your shots - I guess!

Zaal, you might want to be picking up the Improved Crit: Ranged feat as well, since the IMP Crit Pierce only affects melee. (I learned this the hard way a long long time ago.)

Sorry - misspoke - yes I have crit Ranged and not Pierce

[Fenrisulven6]

Crossbows are easier to learn, so it makes sense that they're not as good.

Not really. Crossbows are easier to learn AND are more effective than handbows. The bolts fly flater and longer [more accurate], and with more penetrating power. Their only drawback is a lower rate of fire, which an be offest in the hands of an expert [or specialist]

Our club shoots both in RL. Out of 100+ archers, crossbows usually fill the top ten ranks.

[Zenako]

A number of special effects like Banishing (which will send an extraplanar creature back to its plane) only happen IF you get a critical hit. The base chance of getting a critical hit is 5% with a shortbow or longbow, while it is 10% with a light or heavy crossbow. The actual damage done is irrelevant since you are likely to "banish" the monster before you kill it that way. With the Improved Critical Feat that you take at higher levels, those chances double to 10% and 20%.

I often have my clerics pack a few different crossbows like those, for those times when you get a tactical advantage and can shoot freely at the monsters, like from the top of a cliff. It might not be real quick, but it is pretty cost effective.

Some other special effects occur every time the monster is hit, so in that case you want to have RATE of fire to get more chances to create the effect.

Banishing = on critical (chance to send monster away to its home plane)
Smiting = on critical (chance to destroy a golem or construct)
Disrupting = on HIT (chance to destroy an undead)
Vorpal = on a 20 (only) chance to instantly kill almost anything
Paralyzing = on HIT (chance to paralyze a target for a short time)

[Angelus_dead]

Not really.

And here I was thinking the topic was some kind of video game.

[Fenrisulven6]

And here I was thinking the topic was some kind of video game.

Then why did you say:

Crossbows are easier to learn, so it makes sense that they're not as good.

Or did you have trouble learning how to handle longbows in the video game?

[Angelus_dead]

Then why did you say:

Because longbows are a martial proficiency while crossbows are a simple proficiency. It takes more character-building resources to obtain Longbow proficiency, because some classes might have to spend a feat or splash.

Or did you have trouble learning how to handle longbows in the video game?

As was already spelled out in my post, if you're a cleric, wizard, or sorcerer and not also an elf, then the answer is "Yes, it is harder to learn a longbow".

[TreknaQudane]

Or did you have trouble learning how to handle longbows in the video game?

Actually, yes. There is a reason why crossbows are a Simple weapon that almost everyone can use and Bows are Martial requiring advanced training.

Crossbows are more accurate than a bow as reflected by their higher critical chance, they just lack the stopping power. The real use of a crossbow seems to be for the application of non-damaging on critical effects. I've often wondered why ddo hasn't taken a bite out of 4e and given Rogues some sort of synergy with crossbows.