Unusual Build

[WolfSpirit]

With the new Monk Rings that are coming out, I was kinda thinking...
CForce had some good points about how Monk dps was getting a bit better.
So using this info, and my desire to have a Fighter type with Imporved Evasion I was trying to come up with a super fast attacking character. So I kept thinking 10fighter 10 Monk. (to get all 3 Str/Wis upgrades) But after mulling it over and over, I don't think this really would be an effective character. BUT I wanted to post my build on it to see what the masses think, and if its even worth it for improved evasion, increased Hand damage, increased attack speed. And if the speed is even going to be enough to make up for the lack of crit range/damage and loss of additional Monk Abilities. (Like my favorite Abundant Step)
Has anyone gone down this Dark Road yet? What different things can be done? I know its WEIRD and I have no plans to build or play a gimped character, just my eternal desire to build and customize!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.06
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FighterMonk 10/10
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(10 Fighter \ 10 Monk) 
Hit Points: 324
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 10
Will: 11
                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             18                 26                   30
Dexterity            15                 18                   18
Constitution         10                 12                   12
Intelligence          8                 10                   10
Wisdom               14                 16                   20
Charisma              8                 10                   10
Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               7                 17                   17
Bluff                 0                  0                    0
Concentration         5                 14                   14
Diplomacy             0                  0                    0
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                  0                    3
Heal                  3                  5                    5
Hide                  3                  4                    4
Intimidate            2                 22.5                 22.5
Jump                  9                 33                   33
Listen                3                  5                    5
Move Silently         3                  4                    4
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                  0                    0
Search                0                  0                    0
Spot                  3                  5                    5
Swim                  5                 13                   13
Tumble                n/a               16                   16
Use Magic Device      n/a               n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Damage
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike

Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation

Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency

Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Feat: (Monk Path) Philosophy - Path of Harmonious Balance
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind

Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Magic
Feat: (Automatic) Slow Fall

Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Purity of Body

Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility

Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Wholeness of Body

Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Evasion

Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack

Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)

Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw

Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)

Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Lawful
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Kensei Unarmed Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Unarmed Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey III
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

[Goldeneye]

Not a horrible build, but there is room for improvement.
In terms of the 10 Fighter / 10 Monk, they do not compliment each other enough to make the build shine.

I would recommend 3 different versions that might work better together.

If you want DPS, with some monk abilities:

• Think about getting atleast Fighter Kensai II, and utilizing the Ki-Gaining benefits.

If you want good Monk Abilities:

• Go Pure Monk, or consider two classes that compliment each other more, like Monk and Ranger.

If you want Improved Evasion:

• Use Rogue.

[Thanimal]

Think about getting atleast Fighter Kensai II, and utilizing the Ki-Gaining benefits.

This is my first reaction as well. Surely Fighter 12/Monk 8 is a better build, giving you essentially limitless ki along with the non-sucky +8 STR surge. Fighter 10 feels like no-man's land in a world of PrEs.

[Goldeneye]

This is my first reaction as well. Surely Fighter 12/Monk 8 is a better build, giving you essentially limitless ki along with the non-sucky +8 STR surge. Fighter 10 feels like no-man's land in a world of PrEs.

Fighter 12 gives delicious Kensai II
Monk 8 doesn't really give you much.

Consider:
Fighter 12 (Kensai II)
Monk 7 (Wholeness of Body)
Rogue 1 (UMD)

(This is really interesting.... Haven't even considered this build before)

[jddonkeykong]

also just to keep in mind after mod 9 +2 tomes will have a min level requirement so if you are building this and want all those yummy books at level 1 do it before next week!.

[Thanimal]

Fighter 12 gives delicious Kensai II
Monk 8 doesn't really give you much.

Consider:
Fighter 12 (Kensai II)
Monk 7 (Wholeness of Body)
Rogue 1 (UMD)

(This is really interesting.... Haven't even considered this build before)

That IS interesting! +6.5 sneak attack is non-sucky as well.

In fact, can someone remind me what advantages a mostly-Monk will have compared to this? Seems to me this build can still use the rings and handwraps discussed on cforces's thread, and that otherwise the DPS benefits of Fighter levels outweigh those of Monk levels?

I guess there quite a few non-DPS advantages of all-Monk.

Hm, back over to that cforce thread to stir the pot!

[WolfSpirit]

also just to keep in mind after mod 9 +2 tomes will have a min level requirement so if you are building this and want all those yummy books at level 1 do it before next week!.

Ah, missed that one.
As for the other builds, I was actually looking for superfast attack to make up for the lackluster weaponary of the Monk (Fighter/Haste boost) with maybe Improved Evasion. Seems like a waste to use Monk/Rogue to get attack boost and Wind stance with Attack boost. Ranger would rock, but for the lack of attack boost/unspecialized weapon feats. Does tempest rock better than attack boost? I LOVE the extra feats of the fighter class, lets me specialize in unarmed to boost the damage a bit. I tried Fighter 11 Monk 9 to JUST get that improved evasion. Not sure what levels the hand damage goes up for monk to look for a cutoff level for comparison. I DO know that Fighter18/Monk2 is a sweet build (I went with Fighter18 Rogue2 for UMD and mild Backstab), but I'd NEVER go with unarmed/Kama with that build no matter what!

[Thanimal]

Ah, missed that one.
As for the other builds, I was actually looking for superfast attack to make up for the lackluster weaponary of the Monk (Fighter/Haste boost) with maybe Improved Evasion. Seems like a waste to use Monk/Rogue to get attack boost and Wind stance with Attack boost. Ranger would rock, but for the lack of attack boost/unspecialized weapon feats. Does tempest rock better than attack boost? I LOVE the extra feats of the fighter class, lets me specialize in unarmed to boost the damage a bit. I tried Fighter 11 Monk 9 to JUST get that improved evasion. Not sure what levels the hand damage goes up for monk to look for a cutoff level for comparison. I DO know that Fighter18/Monk2 is a sweet build (I went with Fighter18 Rogue2 for UMD and mild Backstab), but I'd NEVER go with unarmed/Kama with that build no matter what!

As much as I hate the pain of failing saves, I really don't think Improved Evasion is worth giving up the ridiculousness of Fighter 12. +2 damage from Greater Spec; +1 damage from Kensai II, +8 STR (aka +4 damage) from the Surge. Now how much would you pay? But wait! There's more! You also get ridiculously more ki from the Surge as well!!

Also, Fighter Haste Boost and Wind Stance stack (to be more exact the part of Wind Stance that stacks with Haste also stacks with Fighter Haste Boost). So there is no tradeoff being made there -- you're just attack faster: Haste + Haste Boost + (Insight portion of) Wind Stance. Theoretically Tempest stacks with all three of those as well, if you can figure out how to make THAT work...

12/7/1 may really be a sweet spot here! Goldeneye may have just hypothesized the ultimate Mod 10 build!

[Aerendil]

That IS interesting! +6.5 sneak attack is non-sucky as well.

In fact, can someone remind me what advantages a mostly-Monk will have compared to this? Seems to me this build can still use the rings and handwraps discussed on cforces's thread, and that otherwise the DPS benefits of Fighter levels outweigh those of Monk levels?

I guess there quite a few non-DPS advantages of all-Monk.

Hm, back over to that cforce thread to stir the pot!

You lose the best wind stances, as well as quiv palm. May as well forget stunning fist too.
Your base damage won't be great either - 1d8 or something at level 7ish Monk?

The benefits here are the pure, raw, dps you put out with all that strength being added to each fist.
DR? What's that, when you punch for +30 damage?

It's an idea I toyed with a long time ago, when Kensai info was first released, but opted for a pure Monk instead.
But this could certainly work, yeah.

Another option is a strength-based 18 Monk with a /Fighter 1 (haste clicky) splash and whatever splash for the other level (Rogue or Ranger could work here. d6+3 sneak attack vs. +3 FE damage/defense and heal wand access).

[binnsr]

Also, Fighter Haste Boost and Wind Stance stack (to be more exact the part of Wind Stance that stacks with Haste also stacks with Fighter Haste Boost). So there is no tradeoff being made there -- you're just attack faster: Haste + Haste Boost + (Insight portion of) Wind Stance. Theoretically Tempest stacks with all three of those as well, if you can figure out how to make THAT work...

I have a 9Mnk/6Rgr/1Rog who uses Wind Stance II, Haste, Tempest and Rogue Haste Boost I together .. smoking fast attacks!

[Delt]

I have a 9Mnk/6Rgr/1Rog who uses Wind Stance II, Haste, Tempest and Rogue Haste Boost I together .. smoking fast attacks!

Smoking fast with kamas, ya...but kamas sadly suck. Handwraps aren't terrible base dmg at level 9 (but not great either) and then you lose the tempest bonus.

6 ranger is a waste on a monk...which is shame really, since a dev *specifically* came out and commented/bragged about tempest & wind stance stacking -- then they go and gimp it all up. Lame Turbine.

[binnsr]

Smoking fast with kamas, ya...but kamas sadly suck. Handwraps aren't terrible base dmg at level 9 (but not great either) and then you lose the tempest bonus.

6 ranger is a waste on a monk...which is shame really, since a dev *specifically* came out and commented/bragged about tempest & wind stance stacking -- then they go and gimp it all up. Lame Turbine.

One of the benefits of all that speed is that low-proc rate weapons (like a pair of lightning ii kamas) go off more often.

Eladrin's comments in the Illuminati thread were specifically why I built her -- she may not be max dps, but she's still a lot of fun to play.

[Delt]

One of the benefits of all that speed is that low-proc rate weapons (like a pair of lightning ii kamas) go off more often.

Eladrin's comments in the Illuminati thread were specifically why I built her -- she may not be max dps, but she's still a lot of fun to play.

Benefit? Mmmm, I'm not math wiz, but locked into kamas and giving up six levels for a 10% speed boost (less actually) aiming for more procs on a 1-2% two weapon setup ain't even close to paying off.

That it is a fun build, I have no doubt. You probably have the ranger run boost and the rogue melee haste boost. I actually have a similar build (less the rog level) -- but I'd never recommend anyone build anything similar for mod 9. The only reason I haven't rerolled him is because I'm hopeful Turbine will finally get off their ass and add more exotic weaponry (and I'm lazy too I guess).

Eladrin's comments in the Illuminati thread were specifically why I built her -- she may not be max dps, but she's still a lot of fun to play.

If that was when he first broke down the numbers behind Tempest and Wind Stance stacking, then me too.

[binnsr]

That it is a fun build, I have no doubt. You probably have the ranger run boost and the rogue melee haste boost. I actually have a similar build (less the rog level) -- but I'd never recommend anyone build anything similar for mod 9. The only reason I haven't rerolled him is because I'm hopeful Turbine will finally get off their ass and add more exotic weaponry (and I'm lazy too I guess).



If that was when he first broke down the numbers behind Tempest and Wind Stance stacking, then me too.

Yeah .. that was the post .. right about a year ago .. when we had no idea what mod9 would give us..

[Lifespawn]

i have this build all mapped out to 20 and he's at 9ftr 7 monk sofar and a blast to play with fists of light and ftr haste boost i can quickly go from 30 hp to 400.

My endgame is 12/8 because 8 is the next bump in handwrap damage and 12 ftr for kensei.

Build will have a 43 dc stunning blow and a 45 dc trip with kensei and powersurge he hits ahrd enough to notice and when in wind stance and ftr haste boost can really smack out some dps.

[Vivanto]

Low level monk splash for unarmed? That's kinda counter productive, the more monk levels you have, the better your base die, up to 3d6 on lvl 20 which is the equivalent of dualwielding greataxes, save crit profile ofcourse.

If you want to make a synergistic build with kensai extra ki and a monk, then either do a staff or a kama user.