Harry and Sally

[croger1520033]

So after running shroud still and having people still asking what works on Harry, and running a few VoDs and people having issues with dps. Combine that with the changes that are coming to transmuting I have decided to start this helpful thread.

You absolutely have to have silver and one of the following Holy Or Pure Good on your weapon post mod 9 in order to bypass Harry and Sally's DR.

Other things that will give you bonus damage are Chaotic, Anarchic, Evil Outsider bane and Lawful Outsider bane. Of course if you find a weapon that does all that you are good to go.

The above will also work on Orthons.

Below is a picture of what I use and I get all red numbers.

[Aranticus]

or just refer them to my thread?

[sirgog]

So after running shroud still and having people still asking what works on Harry, and running a few VoDs and people having issues with dps. Combine that with the changes that are coming to transmuting I have decided to start this helpful thread.

You absolutely have to have silver and one of the following Holy Or Pure Good on your weapon post mod 9 in order to bypass Harry and Sally's DR.

Other things that will give you bonus damage are Chaotic, Anarchic, Evil Outsider bane and Lawful Outsider bane. Of course if you find a weapon that does all that you are good to go.

The above will also work on Orthons.

Below is a picture of what I use and I get all red numbers.

Transmuting of Pure Good will still work (the Transmuting makes up for not having the alchemical silver quality).

Some weapons that do not bypass DR are acceptable for Harry and Sally, but ONLY on normal difficulty. Lightning 2 or Anarchic/Holy (burst) of (greater) Evil/Lawful Outsider Bane are acceptable weapons, but -15 damage per hit is a serious penalty. On hard or elite - forget it.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Thats why people who have constructed MIN II weaps "should still be" all set as far as DPS on Harry/Sally.

The transmuting will only affect the metallic properties of the weapon now, Silver/Cold-Iron/Mithral/etc.

The Devs already said that Transmuting should never have bypassed alignment issues/slash/blunt/pierce/etc, they were just not inclined to put the work into fixxing the issues as they knew MOD 9 was going to cover it.

[hydra_ex]

Its still the only thing you need.

Lightning strike works well too on normal, but a holy burst silver GEOB will probably surpass it.

[Phidius]

Thats why people who have constructed MIN II weaps "should still be" all set as far as DPS on Harry/Sally.

The transmuting will only affect the metallic properties of the weapon now, Silver/Cold-Iron/Mithral/etc.

The Devs already said that Transmuting should never have bypassed alignment issues/slash/blunt/pierce/etc, they were just not inclined to put the work into fixxing the issues as they knew MOD 9 was going to cover it.

"should never have bypassed"?

You'd think that the description "Transmuting: This weapon transmutes into a form that is able to bypass any Damage Reduction that can be bypassed" would have been written a little different, if that was the case. I don't believe I've ever coded a function where I've added the description "This button, when pressed, will cause an exception".

Now, if they had said that they have already fired the developer who thought it would be funny to make Transmuting bypass all bypass-able DR, and then deliberately take advantage in the holes in the QA process, I could believe that.

Maybe I'm just being too cynical.

[Leyoni]

Notice that minimum level for greensteel is L8?

I'm so getting together a Shroud run w L8 characters. Going to make it a speed run too!

[hydra_ex]

Notice that minimum level for greensteel is L8?

I'm so getting together a Shroud run w L8 characters. Going to make it a speed run too!

Not any more, its just an old pic I found on the forums. Its 12 now, iirc.

[Nyvn]

Notice that minimum level for greensteel is L8?

I'm so getting together a Shroud run w L8 characters. Going to make it a speed run too!

That's an older weapon, newer ones have min lvl 12.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

"should never have bypassed"?

You'd think that the description "Transmuting: This weapon transmutes into a form that is able to bypass any Damage Reduction that can be bypassed" would have been written a little different, if that was the case. I don't believe I've ever coded a function where I've added the description "This button, when pressed, will cause an exception".

Now, if they had said that they have already fired the developer who thought it would be funny to make Transmuting bypass all bypass-able DR, and then deliberately take advantage in the holes in the QA process, I could believe that.

Maybe I'm just being too cynical.

Not too cynical at all bud, just a DDO Veteran is all

I do agree with you though, they knew what happened and people were using MIN II to bypass everything, yet never really did anything about it until MOD 9....awesome QA there.

BTW, +1 rep for you!

[Phidius]

Not too cynical at all bud, just a DDO Veteran is all
...

Yeah... I'd take some time away from the game to help curb my negativity, but these toons don't level themselves!

[Leyoni]

Not any more, its just an old pic I found on the forums. Its 12 now, iirc.

Man! I'm so bummed.....

I was expecting the group to fill fast too.








And die fast??????

[vyvy3369]

You absolutely have to have silver and one of the following Holy Or Pure Good on your weapon post mod 9 in order to bypass Harry and Sally's DR.

Not quite true...you can also have a Transmuting Flametouched Iron weapon that will bypass their DR in MOD 9. For example, a Transmuting Flametouched Iron Greater Bane will actually be a pretty good weapon against them.

Edit: I suppose it's also fair to say that pure Paladins will have a much easier time of it as well (their Capstone will cover the good-aligned DR bypassing), so all they'd need is any silver weapon.

[croger1520033]

Not quite true...you can also have a Transmuting Flametouched Iron weapon that will bypass their DR in MOD 9. For example, a Transmuting Flametouched Iron Greater Bane will actually be a pretty good weapon against them.

Edit: I suppose it's also fair to say that pure Paladins will have a much easier time of it as well (their Capstone will cover the good-aligned DR bypassing), so all they'd need is any silver weapon.

Isn't that all they need now with the holy weapon spell or whatever??

Nm that is cold iron.

[Aranticus]

Isn't that all they need now with the holy weapon spell or whatever??

Nm that is cold iron.

Holy sword is holy burst silver cold iron byeshk. Pally capstone is weapons of good, makes their weapons good aligned

I covered the holy sword issue in another thread of mine titled "dumb pally players"

[BlackRage]

The Devs already said that Transmuting should never have bypassed alignment issues/slash/blunt/pierce/etc,

False

[Solmage]

The Devs already said that Transmuting should never have bypassed alignment issues/slash/blunt/pierce/etc, .

"When you score a successful hit with a transmuting weapon against a creature that has damage reduction, that attack is resolved normally. At the start of your next turn, however, the weapon transforms, taking on the properties required to overcome that creature's damage reduction."

The text goes on to SPECIFICALLY mention changing into a blunt or slashing or piercing weapon to bypass the appropriate DR, as well as bypassing DR based on alignment.

Now, this leaves us with two possibilities:

1) They always intended to have THEIR transmuting weapons be completely different from the rules, and yet were incompetent enough to deviate from their plan and instead implemented them almost exactly as they're supposed to work, (minus the first swing to attune the weapon bit), and left them like that for 3.5 years,

OR

2) "It's now working as we always intended" is a big fat lie.

Now, what are the odds that in Typical Turbine fashion, they simply decided to patch the rules to cover up their mess, instead of revisiting the actual problem?

Examples:

- When caster DPS went through the roof thanks to their lack of foresight they decided to multiply all creature HPs by a few orders of magnitude, instead of going back to addressing the issue. Of course, as anyone should have been able to predict, this would end up having other unfortunate side effects ... like for example w/p changing from being a bit inferior to a nice greater bane weapon, to being the best of the best. And again, instead of addressing the original issue and undoing the screwup with creature hitpoints, we go and again patch the rules, this time changing how w/p works. And so on...

- We create a ridiculously powerful transmuter that makes a lot of other shroud weapons look pathetic in comparison, nevermind anything non-shroud, so instead of addressing that specific problem, let's change the rules so that transmuting no longer transmutes. As is to be expected, this now leaves certain playstyles out in the cold to do decent dps against many enemy types (archers, kensais, to a lesser extent two-handed weapon types, handwraps using monks)

There are sadly more examples...

[Angelus_dead]

Now, this leaves us with two possibilities:

Untrue. There are other possibilities, such as:
"Our intent was for transmuting to bypass all DR, but we were stupid at that time, and we should not have done it that way"

[Nyvn]

Untrue. There are other possibilities, such as:
"Our intent was for transmuting to bypass all DR, but we were stupid at that time, and we should not have done it that way"

QFT

The change is actually changing Transmuting to Metalline from the Player's Guide to Faerun. Which is not as overpowered as Transmuting. Instead of having one awesome weapon and that's all you'll ever need now you have one awesome weapon and a few others you'll need situationally.

[axiom]

I use +1 Holy Burst Silver Heavy Pick of Maiming, and it works brilliantly..looking for a second one..as if I could ever get lucky enough to have a 2nd drop for me.../wishes

PS: No, I don't want to trade or sell.