Monk GTWF last attack chain TERRIBLE imo...

[Gum]

I tell ya what blew my mind is when I picked up BaB 15 on my monk, I got this cool back flip attack, and then I realized this kinda sucks cause it slows down my attack chain. Now the other BaB 15's have there own version of this, but they're actually still making attacks while they slightly slow down. Like THF has the whole spin thing, but it's still doing damage. 2WF has the spin thing or the rooster wishbone pluck animation, which is still doing damage. The monk flips over in the air does damage, and then takes a good while to pause while just SITTING there doing nothing. Grrr so agravating. Why make us that fast in wind stance only to give us that pause and reset with our attack chain, all while sitting there? Are we concentrating? lol

[OpallNotten]

Do you need a Hug Gum?


Opall

[Gum]

Do you need a Hug Gum?


Opall

Why yes, yes I do

[Visty]

that has nothing to do with gtwf, that has to to with bab15
as gtwf adds a hook at your first swing, you do more dmg with it then befor

[Gum]

that has nothing to do with gtwf, that has to to with bab15
as gtwf adds a hook at your first swing, you do more dmg with it then befor

Ah, kk. Well, BaB 15 is horrible for monks I mean seriously, I liked it much better when there wasn't a pause in my attack chain. If you look closely after the the monks last back flip kick, which has BaB 15, they literally are paused there doing nothing while the chain resets, it's terrible.

[Visty]

Ah, kk. Well, BaB 15 is horrible for monks I mean seriously, I liked it much better when there wasn't a pause in my attack chain. If you look closely after the the monks last back flip kick, which has BaB 15, they literally are paused there doing nothing while the chain resets, it's terrible.

bab is horrible for everyone, esp thf and unarmed

[Borror0]

On a more positive note, Eladrin is considering remove the fifth animation.

[baddax]

They are also woking on Whirling Steel Strike.

[Borror0]

They are also woking on Whirling Steel Strike.

One is something that they admitted was bugged and the other was something that Eladrin was toying with on his personal box.

I don't think that is a fair comparison.

[EinarMal]

Yeah they really need to come up with 4 animations for each style, and make all the attacks of each animation (of the same style) take the same amount of time (also the same as moving attacks).

Make BAB add to your attack bonus and give a speed increase as you increase in BAB (like Tempest etc...) but it would of course stack with everything and be an inherent speed for that BAB.

It would be a much better system. They could also easily balance styles by varying the time it takes for each style's base animations.

So maybe you have the following progressions

Unarmed and One Weapon - Fastest base animation
THF - Middle base animation
TWF - Slowest base animation

So, unarmed/one weapon my take 2.4s to compete 4 attacks, THF might take 2.6s to complete 4 attacks, and TWF might take 2.8s to make 8 attacks (GTWF).

So attacks per minute would look something like:

Unarmed/One Weapon = 100 attacks per minute (200 w/ GTWF and unarmed)
THF = 92 attacks per minute
TWF = 171 attacks per minute

Or something like that...

Now as BAB increases you increase each of the attacks per minute, but keep the ratio the same between the styles to balance DPS output a bit.

[Gum]

On a more positive note, Eladrin is considering remove the fifth animation.

Shweet, ty...Sounds good

bab is horrible for everyone, esp thf and unarmed

True, but with THF while your spinning around, your still doing damage, as well with the chicken pluck wishbone shuffle for TWF, but with the monks last animation there is a pause where no damage is being done, and literally kind of just sitting there looking at your opponent while your chain resest lol.

Yeah they really need to come up with 4 animations for each style, and make all the attacks of each animation (of the same style) take the same amount of time (also the same as moving attacks).

Make BAB add to your attack bonus and give a speed increase as you increase in BAB (like Tempest etc...) but it would of course stack with everything and be an inherent speed for that BAB.

It would be a much better system. They could also easily balance styles by varying the time it takes for each style's base animations.

So maybe you have the following progressions

Unarmed and One Weapon - Fastest base animation
THF - Middle base animation
TWF - Slowest base animation

So, unarmed/one weapon my take 2.4s to compete 4 attacks, THF might take 2.6s to complete 4 attacks, and TWF might take 2.8s to make 8 attacks (GTWF).

So attacks per minute would look something like:

Unarmed/One Weapon = 100 attacks per minute (200 w/ GTWF and unarmed)
THF = 92 attacks per minute
TWF = 171 attacks per minute

Or something like that...

Now as BAB increases you increase each of the attacks per minute, but keep the ratio the same between the styles to balance DPS output a bit.

Goodness, that sounds cool. I'm no expert on the matter, but it sure does sound good

[Modinator0]

you know what would be reeeally cool? custom attack chains. could mix and match fast attacks and slow, strong attacks to your heart's desire. No one can say no to more character customization options

[Borror0]

Shweet, ty...Sounds good

It'd be nice to know if there is any progress on that, by the way.

[BlackSteel]

Unarmed/One Weapon = 100 attacks per minute (200 w/ GTWF and unarmed)
THF = 92 attacks per minute
TWF = 171 attacks per minute
.

thats only slightly elevated over what we have now, for all the styles. I dont see how that ends up being balanced at all.

[EinarMal]

thats only slightly elevated over what we have now, for all the styles. I dont see how that ends up being balanced at all.

It was for illustration of a change in the mechanic of the game and how it would work. It is not what we have now because the animations do not all take the same amount of time and you do not get them at level 1. This would get rid of the need for twitch attacking, breaking the combat chain, attacking while moving etc...

The numbers can be easily tweaked over time, which makes it much easier to balance, those were not meant to be the final numbers, and in fact they would always be changing over time as the game changes.

[BlackSteel]

It was for illustration of a change in the mechanic of the game and how it would work. It is not what we have now because the animations do not all take the same amount of time and you do not get them at level 1. This would get rid of the need for twitch attacking, breaking the combat chain, attacking while moving etc...

The numbers can be easily tweaked over time, which makes it much easier to balance, those were not meant to be the final numbers, and in fact they would always be changing over time as the game changes.

w/o twitching to bring up THF's numbers, you wouldnt consider 92 to 171 a little overboard?

personally I hope they leave the fifth animations in; b/c unless they do a complete overhaul what we're going to see is an improvement for everything but THF, which will remain the same. which seems to me like a step back after the recent changes to the fighting style to bring it up to par. and the only reason its even close to par is b/c the huge difference that twitch attacks makes anyway.

changes like the suggested while they sound nice on the forums, are only going to serve to further distance one attack style from another in game.

[EinarMal]

w/o twitching to bring up THF's numbers, you wouldnt consider 92 to 171 a little overboard?

personally I hope they leave the fifth animations in; b/c unless they do a complete overhaul what we're going to see is an improvement for everything but THF, which will remain the same. which seems to me like a step back after the recent changes to the fighting style to bring it up to par. and the only reason its even close to par is b/c the huge difference that twitch attacks makes anyway.

changes like the suggested while they sound nice on the forums, are only going to serve to further distance one attack style from another in game.

As far as 92 vs. 171 no that is about right. It is called "Two weapon fighting" at most levels in PnP you get 2:1 attacks, but the extra attacks are worth less due to deceasing BAB so I did not make it 2:1. You also have to factor in you would be getting even more glancing blows if you did not have to move while fighting.

They would not have to distance it at all, if 92 to 171 wasn't close enough they would simply be able to change it to something else. Personally I think the "texas two step" attack required to make THF viable is dumb and not the way it was intended to work. I would rather that go away and balance the animations so that is not required to increase your DPS so dramatically.

[BlackSteel]

in pnp you could also choose how much you wanted to lose to power attack. I could care less if you got nearly double attacks between weapon styles if a THF could choose to give up 20 to hit for +40 damage

not to mention the whole reverse AB thing in comparison between PnP and DDO. Saying that TWF gives 2-1 in PnP is a sorry excuse for saying the same after translation.

[EinarMal]

in pnp you could also choose how much you wanted to lose to power attack. I could care less if you got nearly double attacks between weapon styles if a THF could choose to give up 20 to hit for +40 damage

not to mention the whole reverse AB thing in comparison between PnP and DDO. Saying that TWF gives 2-1 in PnP is a sorry excuse for saying the same after translation.

To me TWF and THF should give the same single target DPS, they require the same number of feats. Are you implying that THF should be superior? I see no reason for that.

They should be even assuming the fastest possible attack rate (twitching for THF). THF gives an advantage to attacking mutiple mobs where it would pull way ahead in DPS, and TWF gives and advantage for "effects" based attacks. That seems pretty balanced to me assuming they worked out the attack speed to make them equal DPS to one target.

[Aerendil]

Also note that in PnP, Power Attack didn't work with light weapons (although unarmed attacks + power attack was allowed).

And yes, as pointed out above, you got to choose exactly how much to-hit you'd sacrifice to convert into +dmg, with a maximum of your BAB. So you couldn't do -20 to-hit / +20 (or +40 if THF) to damage unless you were level 20.

But yes, that would certainly improve things for the THF folk,