A wizards purpose

[Leyoni]

I've recently joined the ranks of DDO players and have always enjoyed playing wizards in pen and paper, and other MMORPGs I've played. So my initial instinct was to try and play a wizard in DDO. I made it through the first few levels (I'm now level 4) and have noticed that I run out of power often because I try to keep everyone buffed, and also try to fling a few offensive spells to some of the harder to take down mobs.

It is my assumption that wizards can fulfill three purposes in this game, buffing, and crowd control. The question I would like to ask is, "What is typically expected?"

Do other players expect to be buffed, and also expect you to CC mobs to make taking them down easier? Do they also expect you to lay down some damage to make taking mobs down easier? Is it all of the above?

I just find that it's nigh impossible to keep up with the demand and am wondering if I should focus on one or maybe two of those three things instead. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

As a wizard you will have less mana than a sorcerer and cast your spells slower. I find that if I am careless with my spell casting that I run out of mana. On a wizard this is even more likely to happen (and I have a wizard alt, so I know it does happen).

IMO wizards would benefit from specializing just as sorcerers do. Many people feel that wizards should be jacks-of-all-trades because they can memorize every spell. If you try to do this you will run out of mana very quickly.

Most groups expect buffs from wizards, bards and clerics. They have much lower expectations from sorcerers. This has the unfortunate effect of putting most wizards into the buff role and it can eat up a large amount of mana. As a result, many wizards take on crowd control as their other function as area-of-effect spells that slow or stop mobs (so the melees can offer the beat down) are more mana efficient (you can web rather than firewall for less mana).

Realistically, there isn't much you buff as a wizard that can't come from another source (cleric or bard). So, taking a more sorcerer-like approach and becoming an offensive spell build should not be ruled out. You may need to let the group know where your focus is so that they do not look to you for their buffs and crowd control. But, once people know they should be fine with it -- unless you suck completely.

Since I get into groups all the time I'm sure you won't have to worry about that. I mean, if I can get into groups as gimpy as I am then anyone should be able to.

FWIW, always be ready to cast an emergency buff. And, remember that just because you CAN kill it doesn't mean you MUST kill it. Go ahead and let the melees have their fun too. Be stingy with your mana and you won't need to worry.

[Aerendil]

Most groups expect buffs from wizards, bards and clerics. They have much lower expectations from sorcerers. This has the unfortunate effect of putting most wizards into the buff role and it can eat up a large amount of mana. As a result, many wizards take on crowd control as their other function as area-of-effect spells that slow or stop mobs (so the melees can offer the beat down) are more mana efficient (you can web rather than firewall for less mana).

Realistically, there isn't much you buff as a wizard that can't come from another source (cleric or bard). So, taking a more sorcerer-like approach and becoming an offensive spell build should not be ruled out. You may need to let the group know where your focus is so that they do not look to you for their buffs and crowd control. But, once people know they should be fine with it -- unless you suck completely.

Agreed re: buffs. Share buffing with your groupmates if you can. Warchanters make great buffers, because they'll seldom use their SP for anything other than buffs (the occasional heal perhaps, but that's it). Spellsingers will be using their SP more regularly, but then they also have the higher SP pool to accomodate that. So it's always nice to split buffing in a group with a Bard.

As for Sorcs.... in theory they're the best buffers in the game due to their high SP pool. They can blur, false hope, displace, and haste an entire party and still have plenty of SP left over, but for some reason people expect the Wizard, with 1/4 the SP pool of the Sorc, to handle that duty (mostly because we'll have the metamagics to Extend our buffs, or what not).

The turbine store and purchaseable mana pots should alleviate this somewhat, though. Let's hope.

[Leyoni]

As for Sorcs.... in theory they're the best buffers in the game due to their high SP pool. They can blur, false hope, displace, and haste an entire party and still have plenty of SP left over, but for some reason people expect the Wizard, with 1/4 the SP pool of the Sorc, to handle that duty (mostly because we'll have the metamagics to Extend our buffs, or what not).

Lies! All lies I tell you!

I mean, look at this wizard "with 1/4 the SP pool".... What is he, L12 or something? By the time a wizard hits L16 he should have at least 1/2 the SP pool. And another thing, what sorcerer carries blur and false hope? I mean, seriously, we only carry displace so our squishy selves stay alive long enough to nuke everything. And we'd drop haste too if the groups would stop the whining about it and the bards would do their jobs!

Sheesh!

[RTN]

Unless you're zerging, at low levels only give blur to melee characters. Insist that players provide their own buffs when possible (people with capped characters should be twinking their lowbies anyway with healing, heroism pots, etc.). I find that charming and web are best for low level wizards, except for bosses where direct damage is nice.

[Murgatroyd]

One of my favorite combos, Web + Cone of Cold. Those 900+ pt crits decimate groups of mobs.

With a wizard you are more like a surgeon. If you see the melee are about to rush a mob, ignore it and pick off another target. It's one thing that irks me about sorcs. Melee's will have dps'ed a mob down to 20% and then it dies to a trigger happy sorc's FoD.

Oh and if you keep the melee hasted, they won't care if it looks like you're doing nothing

[tralese]

...if you don't know which spells are best, ask the party before entering the quest. On my
wizards, I'll cast the spells I think I need to in order to help the party the most. I'm not going to
bull strength every character nor will I blur everyone. If you're not in melee, you're not getting either.
(except the cleric, I'll always blur the cleric(s)).
To me, wizards influence the battle as a whole while generally only nuking the high priority
targets. It's not an ego game to me like it is to some others: if the barb is charging for the mob,
I won't try to PK or fod him. I might throw a hold depending on how much damage i think he'll do before
he goes down though.

Great insight there Herzkos. Being new to the game, I know nothing of the content that I engage in, which mind you is half the fun. But asking what others might need to help the most is a good idea. So far, I haven't joined a guild on Ghallanda and resort to PUGs for grouping (especially since I die very fast on my own). I almost always carry a cleric hireling with me in case the party is missing a healer. I'll remember to always keep blur on the cleric.

I think I can probably do better SP wise if I limit my buffing to the tank, and now that I think about it, the tank probably has no use for cats grace since the armor he wears probably has a dex limit. That means bull strength and blur. Would bear's endurance be good as well? I mean at low levels it doesn't really give you that much more HP (2 per level).

[Aerendil]

I think I can probably do better SP wise if I limit my buffing to the tank, and now that I think about it, the tank probably has no use for cats grace since the armor he wears probably has a dex limit. That means bull strength and blur. Would bear's endurance be good as well? I mean at low levels it doesn't really give you that much more HP (2 per level).

Yeah, I wouldn't bother too much with the stat buffs if you are over level 4 or 5. Most people will have done Tangleroot on hard+ and earned enough House P favour to get the 30min buffs (which covers most if not all stat buffs, + false life, jump, resistances, and a few others).

Stick with blur and haste unless otherwise requested IMO

[Kalari]

Don't forget to keep yourself buffed as well. Even though most of my wizards know how to keep themselves from being beat up you never know. And especially exploring places you've never been it never hurts to have yourself as protected as possible.

[tralese]

Don't forget to keep yourself buffed as well. Even though most of my wizards know how to keep themselves from being beat up you never know. And especially exploring places you've never been it never hurts to have yourself as protected as possible.

I usually keep Mage Armor, Shield and Blur on me at all times. And if I can remember it, I use my cat's grace wand for an extra 2 AC.

[Phidius]

I've recently joined the ranks of DDO players and have always enjoyed playing wizards in pen and paper, and other MMORPGs I've played. So my initial instinct was to try and play a wizard in DDO. I made it through the first few levels (I'm now level 4) and have noticed that I run out of power often because I try to keep everyone buffed, and also try to fling a few offensive spells to some of the harder to take down mobs.

It is my assumption that wizards can fulfill three purposes in this game, buffing, and crowd control. The question I would like to ask is, "What is typically expected?"

Do other players expect to be buffed, and also expect you to CC mobs to make taking them down easier? Do they also expect you to lay down some damage to make taking mobs down easier? Is it all of the above?

I just find that it's nigh impossible to keep up with the demand and am wondering if I should focus on one or maybe two of those three things instead. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

In general, I think people expect you to buff them, haste them, and be available at the end fight to provide burst DPS.

[tralese]

In general, I think people expect you to buff them, haste them, and be available at the end fight to provide burst DPS.

You make a valid point.
The only hiccup with that is that I don't know how close or far to the end I am most of the time since I have never played most quests. Well that and I don't exactly know when I'll be able to rest up.

I don't want to be stringy with SP and end up costing the group a wipe.

But as you say, if I limit my buffing to haste and a few buffs, and don't spam magic around, I should have some left for the end boss.

The last quest I did was Ironstone Inlet with a group of 4 and my cleric hireling. We did fine with only a few close calls, but I did run out of SP for the end guy fight (on both accounts of myself and the hireling). Luckily we managed and found a rest shrine only after the end fight.

[Kalari]

You dont have to be stingy but these are the rules I tend to follow for my wizards and buffs and saving sp.

If a bard is in the party I tend to coordinate buffs depending on level. I will ask hey what buffs do you carry since I know my bard has Gh, displacement, blur, rage and haste I will make sure the casters know if they wish to conserve mana I will handle those buffs along with my songs. And my casters will always ask if the bard wants to handle buffs.

If my wizard is the only buffer in the party I will give buffs needed like gh, displacement, blur (especially during raids) I tend to ask if rage is wanted and will wait till ac meleer's are out of the way so they do not get hit with it. I do not extend buffs most of the time save Haste I will throw on extend for that spell at all levels. But I stopped extending buffs after level 10 since most of the groups ive been lucky to run with dont really need extended buffs. If there are rangers in the party I tend to see if they can get their own resists before throwing them up as well.

Ive learned playing wizards that observation is your best tool knowing your group and the terrain will help you succeed far better then having tons of sp to waste. Its a thinkers class to me and why its my favorite class to play. I know that if things change up I can plan out a new path of direction and still succeed with my wizards. I think you'll find especially at higher levels wizards can be not only fun but a good fit to most parties as long as your willing to be flexible and think before you cast.

[Valtar]

I've found this thread very enlightening, thank-you.

I always thought a Wizard's purpose was to hold a Sorcerer's hat and coat while the Sorc kicked some a**.

Learn something every day....

[Murgatroyd]

I've found this thread very enlightening, thank-you.

I always thought a Wizard's purpose was to hold a Sorcerer's hat and coat while the Sorc kicked some a**.

Learn something every day....

An ignored spell (ooze puppet) can make a certain level 17 end fight (Enter the Kobold) much easier. Whereas a sorcerer carrying that spell would be laughed off their server (for good reason!) a wizard could swap it in before the fight and charm the living spells.

[tralese]

I've found this thread very enlightening, thank-you.

I always thought a Wizard's purpose was to hold a Sorcerer's hat and coat while the Sorc kicked some a**.

Learn something every day....

Thanks Valtar.
You just made my day. I had a good laugh.
Although do sorcerers really walk around with pointy hats? I thought that was the Wizard stereotype.

This does bring up a good question about equipment though. I currently use a dagger when I'm not shooting with my crossbow. The dagger allows me to cast this spell enhancement thing a few times per rest period. Do you have any recommendations for low level equipment?

On a side note, allow me to toss in a shameless plug to another thread I am running on the General DDO forum (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=196270). It's about a research project I am experimenting with. There is a chance for a free DDO time card to anyone participating in the research.

[Kalari]

hmm hehe I took your survey it was interesting.

For me since Ive been playing awhile and can twink my new wizards its easy for me to have lowbie spell pen and low level scepters that boost fire, kinetic and potency. If you run into any of these things in chest keep them. especially lowbie potency/spell pen items.

I lucked out on my wf build and pulled a necromancy club that also gave her a fire lore boost and 30 sp at level 6. Ive passed that thing down to other wizard builds since its a simple weapon and I wont get that annoying "your not proficient" icon like I did with my first superior potency 6 mace.

[Leyoni]

If there are rangers in the party I tend to see if they can get their own resists before throwing them up as well.

Funny how often Cratesmasher will toss his own resist, GH, etc. only to have the bard/cleric/wizard override it with theirs. My 12 minutes is just as effective as their 30 minutes since the encounter will last 8 minutes, 9 or 10 tops. I've given up. I just type "ty" in the party chat.

My only regret is being unable to cast Shield. Put all those points into UMD and could have saved them for something important -- like Swim....

Casters, if you want to be helpful cast Shield on us TWF types.


Edit: Alright, editing before someone gets confused. You can't cast Shield on anyone else. I know that. That is why I put in the emote.

[Leyoni]

I've found this thread very enlightening, thank-you.

I always thought a Wizard's purpose was to hold a Sorcerer's hat and coat while the Sorc kicked some a**.

Learn something every day....

No, no, no. That takes too much training....

[tralese]

hmm hehe I took your survey it was interesting.

For me since Ive been playing awhile and can twink my new wizards its easy for me to have lowbie spell pen and low level scepters that boost fire, kinetic and potency. If you run into any of these things in chest keep them. especially lowbie potency/spell pen items.

I lucked out on my wf build and pulled a necromancy club that also gave her a fire lore boost and 30 sp at level 6. Ive passed that thing down to other wizard builds since its a simple weapon and I wont get that annoying "your not proficient" icon like I did with my first superior potency 6 mace.

Spell pen? I'm not sure I've ever seen something of the sort. The one thing I've run into so far is that the Robe I got from the tutorial give me a 20% boost to 1st level spells and it's been a real boon allowing me to average 20 damage with burning hands at level 4. If I were to get an item that boosts spell damage, would it interfere with that robe?

Let me re-iterate how thankful I am that you all are taking the time to instruct me. I really appreciate it.

[Leyoni]

Spell pen? I'm not sure I've ever seen something of the sort. The one thing I've run into so far is that the Robe I got from the tutorial give me a 20% boost to 1st level spells and it's been a real boon allowing me to average 20 damage with burning hands at level 4. If I were to get an item that boosts spell damage, would it interfere with that robe?

Let me re-iterate how thankful I am that you all are taking the time to instruct me. I really appreciate it.

Spell pen items refers to spell penetration -- needed to get past spell resistance which isn't yet an issue for you at L4. What you should be looking for are other spell enhancing items such as potency items or lore items. If you are using fire (burning hands) then a fire lore item will improve damage. Potency items like the robe are there for all spell levels (affecting some level and all spells below that level).

These things are usually found on weapons -- primarily daggers and scepters (although often on maces and clubs -- which a scepter is technically -- as well).