My raid loot philosophy....

[Vhlad]

@_@

The only one who was making noise... Loud noise!!... The Sorc. If he wasn't the sorc, My apologies for the assumtion, however, all the more sad if you are on the forums complaining that someone didn't give someone else their loot. Really, nothing better to do than complain about what someone else looted but could have given to a 3rd party, who may or may not have needed it? It wasn't Elduns sorc. His toons are listed in his sig.

Well... The run was not saved by the sorc.... The sorc was the second person to die.... The run was saved by the Cleric who actually had Death Pack loaded and spent the 2000 gp material component cost a whole 2000gp? wow, such a vast expense is surely important enough to mention specifically! to die and raise everyone... had this hadn't happened, I doubt we would have succeaded. The near party wipe came due to a random lighting strike taking out both a cleric and the sorc, Random? Aren't the big lightning strikes caused by nubs who stand next to the giant when they have a full charge? aka static discharge the wizzy was dead first, spikes I think...uber but we were left 9 melees, 1 cleric and a whole lot of angry Air Eleis, with no CC. Yes, once everyone was raise, the sorc's FWs and Disco balls helped.. but to say he saved the day... meh, I wasn't there.

Now as for the second part of your statement... I heard nothing about nor have read that the wizzy had already looted another +3 tome, however if he did, well I don't think it is right, but it was his to do with what he wanted not mine and not yours... I'm tired of the arguments about who "needs" the goggles more out of VoD, the Rogue who pulled them or the melee who wants them.... If it isn't in my name, it isn't mine.

No real goal with my response here. Just farting around. I don't care about the incident in question - I expect this stuff from pugs. It's really the people who show generosity that stand out to me. Everything else is just everyday noise.

Some people seem to take things too personally in this game, and try to cause little wars. It's not healthy. Just relax and have fun. Hug it out.

[Braegan]

How many min fridges do you need of ful beer for a bad raiding night.

Less then a forum reading day!

[Rayzorlew]

Even if you already used it? if so who are you? just to know so I never ever heal you or pass you loot of if possible group with you, who am I? I am Tarkain and purchase.

Uska, I do not think that is what this person is saying....well at least I hope not. In all honesty, I do not think people screw other people on purpose much at all. I am not saying it does not happen. I am saying it does not happen as much as people think it does. I have played with some cold-hearted S.O.B's, and I have been called one myself a few times. However, being mean is one thing, wasting raid loot/tomes.....now that falls under ignorance.

The way I see it, taking the V.O.D. bracers on your fighter for the "fire shield clicky," over a sorcerer....makes you a cold S.O.B. Yet it is your loot! Who am I to judge? For all I know it’s your 69th run and you've needed them in order to solo the Shroud. Now I'm not saying, if I'm that Sorc, I'm not pi$$ed off! Oh, I will be, I'm human. I'll cuss and whine in vent that some dumba$$ fighter took my bracers, but I won't come here and air it out.....because I could have just as easily have been the fighter.

Now leaving it in the chest, because I already have them. Or looting them to sell. That is just Ignorance...but it is their loot. Which is why I lead my own parties, so they can't get in them.

[cdemeritt]

a whole 2000gp? wow, such a vast expense is surely important enough to mention specifically!

No real goal with my response here. Just farting around. I don't care about the incident in question - I expect this stuff from pugs. It's really the people who show generosity that stand out to me. Everything else is just everyday noise.

Some people seem to take things too personally in this game, and try to cause little wars. It's not healthy. Just relax and have fun. Hug it out.

Well I mention it only because while most who raid regularly can easily build up enough gold in a weekend to keep a large supply of the materials stockpiled, I find the cost for something that I 99% of the time don't need, a bit much, and don't carry them or the spell on my cleric, as most of my guildies who play clerics, unless they are soloing (at least the ones I've asked). Had I been in on my cleric, I would not have been able to pull off what the cleric did, and we would have been in trouble. And really the whole statement was more because someone thought the Sorc saved the day, and it wasn't, it was the cleric... Who probably could have used the +3 tome for more Dv's


As for the rest I agree with. It is just a game, and a should be treated as such.

[Vhlad]

The way I see it, taking the V.O.D. bracers on your fighter for the "fire shield clicky," over a sorcerer....makes you a cold S.O.B. Yet it is your loot! Who am I to judge? For all I know it’s your 69th run and you've needed them in order to solo the Shroud. Now I'm not saying, if I'm that Sorc, I'm not pi$$ed off! Oh, I will be, I'm human. I'll cuss and whine in vent that some dumba$$ fighter took my bracers, but I won't come here and air it out.....because I could have just as easily have been the fighter.

Yes! Precisely! Rayzorlew's post here describes my own state of mind pretty well.

1) *****ing and moaning about this kind of stuff is part of the fun of pugging [and having someone in vent cut you off with "STOP WHINING!" in the arnold voice is also part of the fun]

2) Though I reserve the right to cuss and whine, I can't really be mad. I have characters that are looking for only semi crazy **** at this point, like hound shields on wizards/sorcs/monks/THF barbs (panacea clicky and incase I need to shield block for whatever reason). And I KNOW some legitimate intim or cleric is going to cry a little inside when I pull it and keep it. But I won't roll against what I perceive as a legitimate user if a shield is up for public roll.

3) My wizard has maximum available ranks in UMD. Since titan gloves are +5, a +3 cha tome would even him out. That's another +5% to raise dead scroll success. As such, if I pulled a +3 cha tome in a pure pug I'd probably nom nom nom all over it.

But 2) & 3) are still somewhat legitimate uses. I think what ticked Eldun off is his perception that the wizard had absolutely no use for the tome (i.e. no ranks in UMD). But who knows what the future will bring! Perhaps said wizard will respec max ranks into UMD when respecs are offered, or perhaps Elduns perception was wrong and the wizard was in fact a high cha roleplaying intimawizard with max diplo, so he can spam intim and diplo and make the mobs dance back and forth, and the +3 tome was the final piece to his grand master plan!

[Clay]

Those that are selfish and avaricious usualy end up with a well known reputation and find it harder and harder to get groups... limiting the amount of loot they can acquire. So go ahead and take that Archmagi bracer or Levik's shield and vendor it for pennies...

Those that are generous and kind usually end up with a good reputation, find it easy to get in groups and finish more quests and end up with more loot. People will pass things over to them because they either received something from that person or have a friend/guildmate that did.

Things are not perfectly compensated. If I give A person X loot today they may not remember and give me X loot next time we are in a raid and the situation is reversed but that shouldn't be the expectation anyway. But I do believe that those who help others will, in the end, end up further ahead than those that only take.

[FluffyCalico]

Those that are selfish and avaricious usualy end up with a well known reputation and find it harder and harder to get groups... limiting the amount of loot they can acquire. So go ahead and take that Archmagi bracer or Levik's shield and vendor it for pennies...

.

The opposite is even more true. When someone spazzes that they didn't get someone ELSES loot they usually get 100 times the blacklisting of someone who took their OWN loot, no matter the reason.

[Vivanto]

Let me get this straight. I assume you are the one I heard about in game yesterday.

Nope, sadly that's not me. Regardless, I would've taken, eaten and used a +3 cha tome on any of my alts, including wizard. All that while not giving a ****' about your say over my loot.

[Eldun]

The only one who was making noise... Loud noise!!... The Sorc. If he wasn't the sorc, My apologies for the assumtion, however, all the more sad if you are on the forums complaining that someone didn't give someone else their loot. Really, nothing better to do than complain about what someone else looted but could have given to a 3rd party, who may or may not have needed it?




Well... The run was not saved by the sorc.... The sorc was the second person to die.... The run was saved by the Cleric who actually had Death Pack loaded and spent the 2000 gp material component cost to die and raise everyone... had this hadn't happened, I doubt we would have succeaded. The near party wipe came due to a random lighting strike taking out both a cleric and the sorc, the wizzy was dead first, spikes I think... but we were left 9 melees, 1 cleric and a whole lot of angry Air Eleis, with no CC. Yes, once everyone was raise, the sorc's FWs and Disco balls helped.. but to say he saved the day...

Now as for the second part of your statement... I heard nothing about nor have read that the wizzy had already looted another +3 tome, however if he did, well I don't think it is right, but it was his to do with what he wanted not mine and not yours... I'm tired of the arguments about who "needs" the goggles more out of VoD, the Rogue who pulled them or the melee who wants them.... If it isn't in my name, it isn't mine.

Perhaps I was told the wrong story, wouldn't be the first and won't be the last time I didn't get my facts straight. As the description went to me the raid was started shortmanned and the sorc was one of the last to go, certainly not the second ... as soon as he went to the rez room the party started talking about a wipe and rerunning the quest the sorc had the sense to settle the few remaining players floundering about below and recommend to the cleric to cast deathpact on herself and rez everyone in the dead room back to life. Which again someone after multiple warnings took the rez in the room. Then the sorc ran the puzzle for everyone with very little time remaining, apparantly nobody else volunteered for it and the party leader said in PM "puzzle solver what's that?"

Mehh, I just got involved because it worked me up to hear a guildy of mine who doesn't have the level of gear that I've been fortunate enough to gather over the past 3 years AND it was such a classic example on the opposite side of the fence of the dbags who would loot two items with signet stones and are cited as examples to why the raid loot policy was changed.

A guy who would vendor a +3 Tome without even asking if someone else may want it has to be the epitome of a selfish loner who goes against the very nature of a MMO game and anyone who would back up the opinion that vendoring a +3 tome because it was their loot is so far off the ranch as to not even warrant a reply to. I believe that it falls under Legion's coined term "Pileon".

[Vivanto]

A guy who would vendor a +3 Tome without even asking if someone else may want it has to be the epitome of a selfish loner who goes against the very nature of a MMO game and anyone who would back up the opinion that vendoring a +3 tome because it was their loot is so far off the ranch as to not even warrant a reply to. I believe that it falls under Legion's coined term "Pileon".

Apparently, you did bother for a reply, what does that make your post then?

As usual in discussions like this, you just totally missed my point, and focused on the wrong part. I already gave enough explanations of it.

Being a pileon is a totally irrelevant term on the matter and has nothing to do with just the loot or what the loot is being used per see. A pileon is a pileon with a +3 tome, or with a masterwork dagger regardless. You're simply trying to flame with a term you don't even understand..

This game.

[Kraak]

Nope, sadly that's not me. Regardless, I would've taken, eaten and used a +3 cha tome on any of my alts, including wizard. All that while not giving a ****' about your say over my loot.

Cool - can you provide a list of alts if you even play on Thelanis, before TnT strikes this thread? Or even PM them to me .

[Kraak]

You're simply trying to flame with a term you don't even understand.

Yes Eldun - I too find you dense. Very, very dense.


Ok - Viv - fess up the alts bro .

[Pittminion]

Even if you already used it? if so who are you? just to know so I never ever heal you or pass you loot of if possible group with you, who am I? I am Tarkain and purchase.

Dude don't assume, you make bigger ass out of yourself.

I will use a tome everytime unless a guildie can use it better. Only and only if I have eaten it, and every guildie in the party has eaten it will I pass it to a pug. Items are up for grabs generally. I'm raiding for tomes now. The only caviot to the above rules, If I'm on my 6 cha dwarven ranger with no umd, sure I'll pass the +3 cha tome, to a guildie. If no guildies in the party I'll roll it. I'm not going to double eat a tome. I'm not an a$$hat, but I look out for myself and guildies first.

[Vivanto]

Cool - can you provide a list of alts if you even play on Thelanis, before TnT strikes this thread? Or even PM them to me .

Sure, the moment you list yours as well, for some reason I dislike people with a lack of reading comprehension If you're really that keen, feel free to avoid any ground raids meanwhile.

[Kraak]

Didn't know I was that hard to find, but updated my sig. Let me know.

[Murgatroyd]

Didn't know I was that hard to find, but updated my sig. Let me know.

And not Kraak the spider in Korthos

[kinar]

In any raid I run, the loot rules are as follows:

You pull it, its yours. Do with it what you want.

Simple as that.

If I personally pull something that I am not gonna use, I ask who wants it. If it is a not obvious (like a barb wanting a +3cha tome, or a wiz wanting madstone boots), I verify that the reason they want it is a good one (barb might get 2 UMD and INTIMI from a +3 cha tome..wizzy might swiing a huge axe and use mana for buffing only) before I allow them to roll. I'm not about to tell someone how to play thier character and as long as they know what they are looting, I will let them.

[Vivanto]

There ya go.

[cdemeritt]

Perhaps I was told the wrong story, wouldn't be the first and won't be the last time I didn't get my facts straight. As the description went to me the raid was started shortmanned and the sorc was one of the last to go, certainly not the second ... as soon as he went to the rez room the party started talking about a wipe and rerunning the quest the sorc had the sense to settle the few remaining players floundering about below and recommend to the cleric to cast deathpact on herself and rez everyone in the dead room back to life. Which again someone after multiple warnings took the rez in the room. Then the sorc ran the puzzle for everyone with very little time remaining, apparantly nobody else volunteered for it and the party leader said in PM "puzzle solver what's that?"

Mehh, I just got involved because it worked me up to hear a guildy of mine who doesn't have the level of gear that I've been fortunate enough to gather over the past 3 years AND it was such a classic example on the opposite side of the fence of the dbags who would loot two items with signet stones and are cited as examples to why the raid loot policy was changed.

A guy who would vendor a +3 Tome without even asking if someone else may want it has to be the epitome of a selfish loner who goes against the very nature of a MMO game and anyone who would back up the opinion that vendoring a +3 tome because it was their loot is so far off the ranch as to not even warrant a reply to. I believe that it falls under Legion's coined term "Pileon".

Points of View: Perspective: amazing things... Everyone has a different one.... Your guildie has one where he saved the run, I have another where he wasn't as pivitol, and I'm sure there are 9 others that will say something else as well.

I don't know either the sorc or the wizzy, so to comment on which one of them had more use for the tome is a bit much for me, as they both could have "some" use for it. and I'm pretty sure I saw the wizzy using the tome.

But from my point of view the one who showed worse here was the Sorc, reguardless of how much he "saved" the run. The whining and complaining and tantrum throwing in party chat because he didn't get a chance to roll on it, assuming the wizzy had "Zero" use for it. He is the one I will remember, and looked like the @$$hat. I'm not the only one who thought this.. Had guildies with us, and we even hrs later were laughing at the sorc. in vent.

I don't know anyone plans for their builds, I only know what I'm planning. Anyone complaining about what I loot will be laughed at. I don't assume that just because something drops, I'm getting a shot at it.... it will drop for me eventually. I've seen some really strange builds, that I thought would be useless dead weight, but worked surprisingly well. (The BattleBot Warmages) Not my place to "assume" what they can use.

As far as I'm concerned, the Wizzy did NOTHING wrong, as long as he did use the tome.

[ace_mason]

Mem, you are my bro and I know you will see it as such. But my only interjection if you will is that likewise I don't care that much about a greedy bastage from time to time, but I will be damned if I will let the same greedy bastage into another group so he/she can show their greed again.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Your loot is your loot. If you want to pull a +3 charisma tome on your wf wizard with an 8 charisma and no umd then by all means have at it. After all it is your loot, but you better be ready to get flamed on the forums. Also be prepared to be rejected from any runs by that person and probably all his friends and guildies. We are a small community word gets around fast. If you are a bastage you wont get into many groups. A simple reason why he needed it would have probably been sufficient. Just say I am a noob pileon that has never seen a +3 tome before and I wanted to loot it to say I have loot one before. Good enough for me. But to take it out of the chest then ding out of the party as fast as possible after being carried through the raid. Bad form IMO and that guy I now on my do not group list. Mainly because if I loot something and don't need it I put it up for roll. Ill be damned if he is gonna have a shot at it.