sorcerer versus wizard

[Maxmillian]

Lets hash it out...which is better?
Be specific...
Changing spells for a sorcerer...find a trainer...pay a lot (coming from a cleric...what pay for changing a spell)
Why would I build a sorcerer over a wizard?
Truth be told I did build a sorcerer, now 4th level, considering scrapping for a wizard though...talk me out of it.

[Lymnus]

Oh goodness, here we go again.

Sorcerers and Wizards are both viable at end game. It just matters how you like to play. There's differences between them, sure, but they're both plausible.

Go ahead, play your wizard. A lot of sorcerers I know played a wizard first just to check out spells.

[Thrudh]

Sorcs:

• They get a lot more SP (around 2600 SP by end-game), and can cast much faster.
• They get less spells, and can only change one out every 3 days...

Wizards:

• They get a lot less SP (around 1700 SP by end-game), and cast slower
• They get more spells, and can change them at will...
• They get bonus feats at levels 1,5,10,15,20

They are pretty well balanced... Many sorcs deal with their spell selection limitation by using scrolls...

Wizards bonus feats and the fact they can use situational spells is very useful in some quests...

I would usually recommend a wizard for a player trying out a caster for the first time... Being able to swap out spells at will lets you play with all of them, and then you can decide which ones are "best"...

I like the flexibility of a wizard, so I never rolled up a sorc, but I'm certainly jealous of all that extra SP...

[Sweyn]

Sorcs are better hands down. The more spell points you get and faster casting out weigh versitility. The number of spells sorcs get for each lvl is plenty. For some lvls i have spells that are useless, there was nothing better. You should know what spells you need and which ones youll use, i planned it out on my sorc, and onl had to swap a few times, why? because all those extra spell slots are not needed. Sure, you can have a ton of spells, but you wont beable to keep on going like a sorc.

[doppleganger]

ultimate nuking power versus ultimate versatility

take your pick and roll with it

[Aspenor]

It comes down to this:

Sorc: nuking and repetitive spell-casting power

Wizard: Ultimate crowd control and DC based spell-casting

Take your pick of what you want to do.

[vainangel]

I suggest looking at the changes between Wiz and Sorc for mod 9.
Many more options for both!
I like Sorcs. I have a Wiz/Fighter as well. I like how I can select a spell for the area/quest I am in. I do find I am not exchanging them often as someone has a clickie or the spell needed in a pug anyway.

The limitations of a Wiz are overcome by playing a WF I hear.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Wizard = swiss army knife
Sorc = bazooka

Both have their place, both are better in certain situations, both are fun to play, neither is better.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Both are fine. Just different.

I made my Wiz first. And she's probably my second favorite char. I love versitile chars.

Made my Sor and used the spells I like on my Wix which tended to be CC spells.
I was greatly amazed at how fast Sorcs can spam spells and how they have the SP to do it.
Mines ended up being a rare CC speced Sorc. Haven't really made a nuker yet.

My Sorcs not nearly as versitile as my Wiz, but she's a more powerful caster in her limited way.

But without SP she's useless, and is not as sturdy as my Wiz (less buffs).
Where my wiz was purposely made to be able to contribute without SP if needbe (but is usually still buffed for a very long time)
My Wiz is stealthy and has a spell feat for any occasion. And can switch spells for any occasion.

My Sorc is a better caster for what she is specialized in.

But I recommend playing a Wiz first to experiment with spells.

[srwood]

Quick question to add to the thread:
What are the spell limitations for Sorc vs Wiz (as in what they can actually learn)?
Can they both learn all the same arcane spells, but sorcs just can't change out/inscribe?

I've rolled a couple wizards so far & with my newest one I've been kind of specializing in fire/combustible spells and equipment for a "pyromancer" feel. After reading this thread, it seems if you're wanting to go down a specific spell path like that a sorc would be a better idea. true?

[Lymnus]

Quick question to add to the thread:
What are the spell limitations for Sorc vs Wiz (as in what they can actually learn)?
Can they both learn all the same arcane spells, but sorcs just can't change out/inscribe?

I've rolled a couple wizards so far & with my newest one I've been kind of specializing in fire/combustible spells and equipment for a "pyromancer" feel. After reading this thread, it seems if you're wanting to go down a specific spell path like that a sorc would be a better idea. true?

They both can learn the same spells. Wizards can switch their spells out at a tavern, rest shrine, et cetera. However, sorcerers can only change 1 spell per 3 days at a sorcerer trainer. So, sorcerers don't inscribe spells.

Well, most casters find themselves going down a specific path. Fire/Ice spells tend to be more power than Electric/Acid. While there are Electric/Acid sorcerers and wizards, Fire/Ice is much more common because of spells like Firewall, Delayed Blast Fire Ball, Scorching Ray, Polar Ray, Cone of Cold, and so forth.

But, both classes tend to specialize. It's just according to how one's playstyle is. If you like CC, you can be a CC-Specced Sorc (as someone mentioned they were). I even play a sort of CC-Specced Sorc. But, it's just a playstyle thing.

[Thrudh]

Sorcs are better hands down. The more spell points you get and faster casting out weigh versitility. The number of spells sorcs get for each lvl is plenty. For some lvls i have spells that are useless, there was nothing better. You should know what spells you need and which ones youll use, i planned it out on my sorc, and onl had to swap a few times, why? because all those extra spell slots are not needed. Sure, you can have a ton of spells, but you wont beable to keep on going like a sorc.

There are situational spells... Halt Undead is a good example in the lower levels... A wizard can grab it when doing undead quests... A sorc might have it, but then is just wasting a spell slot whenever he/she is not in an undead quest...

The charm spells are another... Some quests are just easy as cake with the charm/suggestion/symbol of persuasion spells. In other quests, those kind of spells are useless...

Hold Person, Mass only works on humanoids... A wizard can grab it when heading into a quest with humanoids, and drop it when heading into a quest without...

Ooze Puppet is useful in a few quests, but not all... A wizard can get it for those few quests... A sorc either won't have it, or will have it, and be wasting a slot in all quests without...

There are also situational feats... Because a wizard gets a lot more feats than a sorc, he/she can have mostly worthless feats like Enlarge... But there are a few quests where Enlarge is very useful (Invaders, Rainbow, VON 3, anything with beholders)

These are just some examples... However, Sweyn is right that in MOST quests, you can just use the same old spells that always work... No caster needs Hold Person, Mass or Halt Undead or Ooze Puppet or Enlarge to totally dominate a quest...

Most sorcs won't even notice those situational spells... and they don't need them... However, it can be fun as a wizard to swap in spells occasionally that are tailor-made for a quest...

I think the devs did a good job.. I think both caster types are very well balanced...

[ddoer]

With a cap'd soc and a cap'd wiz, I like to play my soc much more than the wiz.

The main advantage of wiz is that you can change spells for any quest. Say, in Desert Caravan, if your soc is not spec'd for CC, it will be very tough or just not doable. So, a wiz is a better in solo. However, with careful spell selection, the limited spell slots is enough to hold spells that could handle 95% of quests. And manage majority of situations. It's more funny to play soc.

I would categorize casters' roles/strategies as follows:

• instant kill
• nuke
• crowd control
• debuff
• buff

Any caster could focus/do any number of roles. IMHO, Soc is more suitable for instant kill and nuking, while a wiz could do better in the other 3. For sure both of them could pick any of the 5 roles, but a soc who do not focus on instant kill or nuke is quite a waste of talent.

[foxx]

Any caster could focus/do any number of roles. IMHO, Soc is more suitable for instant kill and nuking, while a wiz could do better in the other 3. For sure both of them could pick any of the 5 roles, but a soc who do not focus on instant kill or nuke is quite a waste of talent.[/QUOTE]

true but a wiz with the extra feats ends up with a better dc,. so in the long a sorc will use as many spell points on the same amount of kills, so IMNSHO a sorc might as well spec out for nuking and take what they can get for insta kills.

[Riorik]

Sorcs are better hands down.

It's situational. For your play style, this may be true. There are, however, many ways to achieve just about everything so no one single style is the only way to "win".

I also think that Turbine is in the habit of changing the game and over time, more spells will get added and the Wizard advantages will become more apparent the more that is added to the game. In particular, if Turbine every manages to setup two competing end-game area's that almost "require" two completely different spell schemes ( for the same spell levels ) - the differences between the two classes would be rather dramatically shoved into the mainstream.

The other half is, it may actually be completely untrue. Sure, they have higher BASE spell points but it seems like Turbine is clearly heading down the road of unlimited mana. Ask yourself, just how hard is it to get major mnemnic potions? What about items that regenerate spell points? In exactly the same way that the availability of scrolls (in DDO, never really in PnP except in a "monty haul" environment) changed the dynamic between Wizards & Sorcerors...effectively unlimited Major Mnemonics do the same thing to the spell point pools.

Wanna cast quicker? How about the Quicken Feat with the bonus that you can't be interrupted.

Did you say something about Sorceror Advantages?

[Monkey_Archer]

I would categorize casters' roles/strategies as follows:

• instant kill
• nuke
• crowd control
• debuff
• buff

Sorc vs wizard = Specialist vs generalist.

The capstones make sorcs better for nuking and wizards better for DC spells.

Sorcs tend to be more specialized, and dont do as well out of their primary focus.
Wizards can do any job required of a caster, but can never compete with a sorc's specialty due to lack of sp.

You can specialize a wizard, and still be just as good at all other roles...
You cannot specialize a sorc and still be just as good at all other roles..

You can generalise a sorc, but it will never be as versitle as a wizard.

[rest]

The first caster I build was a sorc. Now when I try rolling a wiz up, the slow casting really makes me sad I have yet to get a wiz past level 3.

But also, it took me forever to get my sorc to a place where I enjoyed playing her. Once she could start soloing more and more stuff (level9-10ish) I fell more and more in love! Now she is probably the most decked out of my capped toons, and she's only been capped for a couple months. Still looking for that VoD set...

[Riorik]

There are also situational feats... Because a wizard gets a lot more feats than a sorc, he/she can have mostly worthless feats like Enlarge... But there are a few quests where Enlarge is very useful (Invaders, Rainbow, VON 3, anything with beholders)

Picking on the Enlarge Metamagic only...I think you undervalue it. It's really just another piece of the Wizard versatility package. Most of the time it's off and idle, but when you need it, you need it.

Another use would be when the Reaver raid bugs out and leaves everyone on the Ceiling. It's too far away for nearly all spellcasting to hit him (because finishing the fight resets the bug and all drop) - unless you have enlarge. (This doesn't prevent ranged combat, obviously, but being able to add 100+ fire damage/tic isn't exactly a negative)

I'm not sure what I'd do without Maximize, Empower, Extend, Quicken, Heighten & Enlarge. Now, if you want to pick a useless metamagic, you could have chosen Eschew Materials...as the game currently plays with current content. Now, if they could put us in Prison (like at the beginning of Baldurs Gate 2) with no equipment...that'd be splendid)

[Bbrik]

WF sorcs will be the new thing in pvp and pve. With the new mod you will be able to use your char bonus for reflex ad you can all ready use it for will. So max con and char WF and maybe drow will be amazing. Drow for 20 char base and being a little more different and WF will self heal have amazing saves hp and sp. Sure you can't change out spells that often but you spec for say fire only take fire/ice spells and what ever else you want is what's left. Wizzy are good but low saves sp casting time ect.. And really how often do you need to change spells? And if some one complains it's YOUR build you play how you want so use the spells YOU want or think you need. By drow sorc lvl 14 uses his 12 haste clikylies to save manna to do more dmg and will buff if I think it's needed. That is just my view. WF sorcs and evasion clerics are the rulers

[Zuldar]

It depends on how many mana pots you intend to drink. Once you factor those in a larger sp pool is irrelevant. So I'd probably say wizard due to more feats and spells.