Talon... oh no! Forget about 7 wiz!

[Visty]

Show me a build that hits for around 50 (150 crit) that includes 7wiz. I'm just curious to see if it can be done without seriously gimping the build somewhere.

here, take this

http://community.codemasters.com/for...18#post5260318

[Aerendil]

Not to parrot what others have said, but /7 Wizard does seem to be a nice stopping point if you want to SP-cast various spells (Jump, Exp Retreat, Blur, Haste, Displacement, Stoneskin, Firewall, Fire Shield, D. Door, False Life, Knock, Invis, etc.).

You could go 12 Ranger (max resists/Barkskin/Tempest II), /7 Wiz, and still have one level to play with (/1 monk? /rogue? /fighter?).

The other alternative, if you're into carrying plenty of wands, is a mere /1 or 2 level Wiz splash.
Higher BAB, but less casting versatility (sometimes it's nice to just Displace or Stoneskin yourself instead of having to dig out a wand, especially in combat). Up to you, I guess.

But IMO, you were simply using the wrong level 4 spells. Firewall is a nice "bonus" for kiting damage, but your blades will do far more IMO.

[gaxpar]

Have you found the save for firewall there buddy with a capped cleric and a capped wizard for 2 years .

1- Anyone with 11 level of ranger have tempest its so powerfull that theres not one good reason to not have it .(youre alone )

2-Why does a dex evasion build need fireshield scrolls at all if youre a dex build you should have about 30-35 reflex without pushing it why would you need fireshield .(again according to what i saw in sorjek evasions dex builds dont use fireshield ) youre alone , but you could have done it on scrolls,if you really felt better to see that little blue shield . (Again youre alone) .

I dont know, i run sorjek quite often i think fireshield is really usefull in the fire part but i am yet to see an evasion with fireshield .Well maybe again we all dont get it .

But since one of my post was removed you can get fireshield out of scrolls fyi its right next to the dcs in house p or in portable hole .

3- If the build was great then and is still great today why the hell has no one copied it, the build is 3 years old and hes still the only build like that on the server are the other people not smart enough to get it ?No the truth is if it was a great build people would have copied it , See all those cleric monk splashes all those ranger rogue monk splashes ????Why are there so many ?I guess we all dont get it . (Again youre alone ...)

Monks only been here for a year .

4- delt ,wasnt delt a paladin and now got rerolled ? you see thats the thing most people rerolled the first toon they ever built cause i dont know ONE person that got it all right the first time if youre not taking forum builds (and anyway back then i dont even think there was any , could be wrong as i didnt read forums for at least 1 year )
If you wanna talk about magnetz and zafe i will and yeah theyre gimpy , i dont need other people to tell me or i dont need to try and justify my build with weaksauce arguments .By today s endgame yeah zafe is a gimp even with many shot (lightning strike bow ) and lightning strike repeater .I dont try to argue that .

But id take zafe against trudh's ranger any day in any quest and zafe is my gimp ....

But i guess for some people its not as easy to realize i guess its kinda like playing capped casters and cleric for over 2 years and not read spells description once its not obvious .

This is a numbers game not opinions game put your stats attribute,skills and saves ac etc and what not trudh see what your definition of solid is ....

This was your first build right turdh ? Delt you realized the dcs were on your spell description before in 3 years though right it just didnt dawn on you now ?

Now trudh you can go on other servers forums and let them know they came back after just 2-3 months of theyre good bye thread and let everyone know how well the game is doing .

[Delt]

here, take this

http://community.codemasters.com/for...18#post5260318

Ah, cheeky. I was thinking it was gonna be a TWF. THF with 28 str, cleric combat buffs, dwarf APs? Ya, 50-150 sounds right.

[EinarMal]

Show me a build that hits for around 50 (150 crit) that includes 7wiz. I'm just curious to see if it can be done without seriously gimping the build somewhere.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=194996

[doppleganger]

Theres no need for testing you just have to read the spell description and the dc for everything is right there.There never was a save on firewall.

...

Im just really surprised that he never read the spell description on hot barr after all this time to realize the dc were right there ....

Altough some might be incorrect the information for most of them is accurate and it would be the first place to get that kind of info imho ..

Im pretty sure most people playing capped clerics and wizards for a couple years at least have read that description from time time and saw the dcs there .

...

All you need to do is learn to read and read spell description after 2 years of playing capped wizard and cleric it should; have been done a long time ago ask around other players playng casters and clerics for 2 plus years where they can find the dc of their spells ....


You just need to read that spell description once in 2 years ..... and tadada the dc is right there ...

Just ask around lol after 2 years y a know...

...


Have you found the save for firewall there buddy with a capped cleric and a capped wizard for 2 years .

But i guess for some people its not as easy to realize i guess its kinda like playing capped casters and cleric for over 2 years and not read spells description once its not obvious .

Dude, this thread is barely 2 pages long, and yet your narcissic needs are so great you feel you should bash on the same nail 4 times to try to crush someone else's ego just to boost yours. That's pretty pathetic. Being on your DNP list is indeed quite a boon.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

%#^%$%...I've posted two replys now that have been lost in cyberspace....darn flacky internet connection!!!!!!

Anyway, for the third time.

It's been awhile since I ran with Thrudh's char Hasenpeffer. (MrCow, you guys have been on the same server forever, you must have bumped into him)

His char is way better than my Rgr7/Rog4/Wiz5 and I've been 2 manning DQ1 forever.
In fact I think you guys brought up his "friend's list" addition on the forums when it happened.
Shouldn't judge by build IMO.
Player and gear matter way more than build. And his build is fine.

Thrudh. I'm going Rgr11/Rog4/Wiz5 with Talonage.
But I still want to lvl up a couple Wiz7 builds.
I think Fireshield would be so cool....the other stuff is just a bonus IMO.

You should be able to buff up to a decent Firewall. Just not as good as a pure caster, so just don't cast your on top of his.

But FoM is noce too.
I have the Kundarek boots and use scrolls of Sleetstorm on occasion. (Brinks was always nice enough to make sure everyone else had FoM on. )

Anyway, glasd you had Beta to experiment and decide which direction to go when we go live.

(ok...coppied so I don't lose it this time)

[Visty]

Ah, cheeky. I was thinking it was gonna be a TWF. THF with 28 str, cleric combat buffs, dwarf APs? Ya, 50-150 sounds right.

nothing cheeky

i never said its twf :P

[gaxpar]

Dude, this thread is barely 2 pages long, and yet your narcissic needs are so great you feel you should bash on the same nail 4 times to try to crush someone else's ego just to boost yours. That's pretty pathetic. Being on your DNP list is indeed quite a boon.

Its pretty simple the guy has 4000 posts and post about 7-10 per days and talk about various subject like he has game knowledge ,

I think its pretty obvious that this post bares the question how much knowledge can someone have missing something so basic .

I guess he can go back to sharing is great knowledge and i can thelp myself to be anxious to read another 4000 post of someone with such knowledge to share .

But yet on our server he never leads raids... so i dont know ...

[ariel7]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=194996

Soon as I saw the challenge I was going to link to this one. I didn't post a comment in the other thread, but grats on once again making a really versatile and fun original build.

[Missing_Minds]

Stoneskin is easy to get from Shroud clickables...

And wands out of the 12.

[Delt]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=194996

Actually, that's funny. My original reply to that was longer...I brainstormed my own guess as "probably something like 7 wiz/7rog/6ranger STR build with gimpy evasion saves and tight on feats".

I'm gonna read that thread and see how it avoided my initial idea of problem areas. Curiousity mind you...I can't imagine building that as it seems pretty flavor-orientated to me.

Edit: About what I expected, reliance on sneak and DP clickies to keep the ToHit reasonable, and if either go away, PA gets switched off for sure. Feat tight enough to forgo extend (less cumbersome gameplay) and OTWF (Bab hurt further). Evasion is middling utility @ 26 dex at best. Not talking shots at the build mind you, looks fun. But definately has the issues I expected. Extra props for the build name too

4- delt ,wasnt delt a paladin and now got rerolled ?

This was your first build right turdh ? Delt you realized the dcs were on your spell description before in 3 years though right it just didnt dawn on you now ?

He was a human Pali, then a drow TWF pali and now a Ranger mutt.

And ya, I understand DCs, where to find them, how to calc them to confirm the tooltip #'s are right etc. But there are things I forget or don't know after 3 years, like what metamagics apply to alot of spells (Heighten doesn't increase Grease DCs).

I'm not saying that thinking firewalls have DC checks isn't a wacky one...it is. But not being able to do a GH quest norm without a cleric is wacky too, lol.

[EinarMal]

I'm gonna read that thread and see how it avoided my initial idea of problem areas. Curiousity mind you...I can't imagine building that as it seems pretty flavor-orientated to me.

Edit: About what I expected, reliance on sneak and DP clickies to keep the ToHit reasonable, and if either go away, PA gets switched off for sure. Feat tight enough to forgo extend (less cumbersome gameplay) and OTWF (Bab hurt further). Evasion is middling utility @ 26 dex at best. Not talking shots at the build mind you, looks fun. But definately has the issues I expected. Extra props for the build name too

The evasion save is pretty solid at +29, that isn't bad at all and similar to most strength based Rangers.

The rest of the stuff is valid, if you don't like keeping up short duration buffs definitely not a build you want to play.

[EinarMal]

Actually, that's funny. My original reply to that was longer...I brainstormed my own guess as "probably something like 7 wiz/7rog/6ranger STR build with gimpy evasion saves and tight on feats".

I'm gonna read that thread and see how it avoided my initial idea of problem areas. Curiousity mind you...I can't imagine building that as it seems pretty flavor-orientated to me.

Edit: About what I expected, reliance on sneak and DP clickies to keep the ToHit reasonable, and if either go away, PA gets switched off for sure. Feat tight enough to forgo extend (less cumbersome gameplay) and OTWF (Bab hurt further). Evasion is middling utility @ 26 dex at best. Not talking shots at the build mind you, looks fun. But definately has the issues I expected. Extra props for the build name too

The other thing that tends to happen with non-traditional builds is they are not compared fairly. Every build has pros and cons, that is just the nature of the trade offs you make. What often ends up happening for a build like I posted is they get compared to 5 different buidls at once, so you do this worse than Rangers and this worse than if you had 12 wizard levels etc...

Compared to any one build I think it compares very well. To me it is most like a strength based Ranger and compares well to that.

[BlackRage]

Have you found the save for firewall there buddy with a capped cleric and a capped wizard for 2 years .

Just pointing out the obvious that the DCs have come and gone from the tooltips over the years and for a majority of the time they were simply wrong.

1- Anyone with 11 level of ranger have tempest its so powerfull that theres not one good reason to not have it .(youre alone )

incorrect - it is good, certainly the best 6lvl PrE, but it is NOT so good that one MUST have it.

2-Why does a dex evasion build need fireshield scrolls at all if youre a dex build you should have about 30-35 reflex without pushing it why would you need fireshield .(again according to what i saw in sorjek evasions dex builds dont use fireshield ) youre alone , but you could have done it on scrolls,if you really felt better to see that little blue shield . (Again youre alone) .

Why do all those melee steal my Glacier Bracers my Wiz needs...? Must be for the Archmagi

It is another guard that does damage and even better mitigates damage as well. There are two reasons why it is not used more: low UMD and the player base is lazy.

I dont know, i run sorjek quite often i think fireshield is really usefull in the fire part but i am yet to see an evasion with fireshield .Well maybe again we all dont get it .

Quite clearly you do not.

3- If the build was great then and is still great today why the hell has no one copied it, the build is 3 years old and hes still the only build like that on the server are the other people not smart enough to get it ?No the truth is if it was a great build people would have copied it , See all those cleric monk splashes all those ranger rogue monk splashes ????Why are there so many ?I guess we all dont get it . (Again youre alone ...)

There are other identical and similar builds around. That said how many of a build exists is irrelevant to the actual effectiveness of that build... PR is generally the difference. Not many Clonks when Monks were first released - took a long time for those to be accepted.

In any event, is the build acceptable? Yes - is it Great? Probably will never be viewed as such given it is less than optimal.

[DoctorWhofan]

Not to parrot what others have said, but /7 Wizard does seem to be a nice stopping point if you want to SP-cast various spells (Jump, Exp Retreat, Blur, Haste, Displacement, Stoneskin, Firewall, Fire Shield, D. Door, False Life, Knock, Invis, etc.).

You could go 12 Ranger (max resists/Barkskin/Tempest II), /7 Wiz, and still have one level to play with (/1 monk? /rogue? /fighter?).

The other alternative, if you're into carrying plenty of wands, is a mere /1 or 2 level Wiz splash.
Higher BAB, but less casting versatility (sometimes it's nice to just Displace or Stoneskin yourself instead of having to dig out a wand, especially in combat). Up to you, I guess.

But IMO, you were simply using the wrong level 4 spells. Firewall is a nice "bonus" for kiting damage, but your blades will do far more IMO.

I like getting 12 levels of ranger, Thrudh, on your toon. THere are alot of advantages for level 12.

...and...play how and what you want. There are players out there who can't play pure.

[Thrudh]

In any event, is the build acceptable? Yes - is it Great? Probably will never be viewed as such given it is less than optimal.

Basically, I gave up offensive power for defensive power... Instead of 3 feats for tempest (10% more swing speed), I took the three healing dragonmarks and gave myself five 270 points heals, and seven 120 point CSW... That's about 2000 hps of healing power that can be cast in the middle of combat with no concentration check...

Is that an optimal choice? Especially for a raid-centric character? Heck, no... In raids, there's a cleric there to heal me... Is it even a optimal choice for somone who solos, shortmans, or just takes the first 5 people who come along? Probably still not optimal... More DPS combined with UMD for heal scrolls would probably be optimal.

Is it a reasonable choice though? I think so...

He was a concept character... an attempt to mix melee and arcane AND healing... He works very well... Being able to solo most quests in this game qualifies it as a decent build. He obviously doesn't ride on other's coat-tails... He's not an optimal raider (although he's better than most DPS builds in elite Hound), but he's still top-notch for current end-game quests like Prey, Kobold, SoS, and most of the Vale quests..

He's a great Shroud runner (favored enemies: constructs, evil outsiders, elementals).

Of all my characters, he's still the one I'd take first into a new dungeon, because he can handle anything... I proved that two nights ago, in Sins, he survived everything that quest threw at him (And there was no cleric in the group)...

Now in Mod 9, he's going to fall behind significantly... The PrE's are giving everyone big boosts, and he's not going to get one (I was glad to see that w/p is still useful in Mod 9, so he might be okay after all). Anyway, I'm exploring different ideas for him...

I got a chance to play around with level 7 wizard on the beta server... I'm not too impressed with a low-level firewall against end-game critters... That's all this post was about...

I think 15/5 is the way I'll go with him... The only reason this build has any DPS at all is due to favored enemies, so I should probably concentrate on that aspect of the build instead of diluting it further with more "fun" wizard levels... Besides Freedom of Movement would be really nice (I don't have those boots like Talon... man I'm jealous)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Basically, I gave up offensive power for defensive power... Instead of 3 feats for tempest (10% more swing speed), I took the three healing dragonmarks and gave myself five 270 points heals, and seven 120 point CSW... That's about 2000 hps of healing power that can be cast in the middle of combat with no concentration check...

Is that an optimal choice? Especially for a raid-centric character? Heck, no... In raids, there's a cleric there to heal me... Is it even a optimal choice for somone who solos, shortmans, or just takes the first 5 people who come along? Probably still not optimal... More DPS combined with UMD for heal scrolls would probably be optimal.

Is it a reasonable choice though? I think so...

He was a concept character... an attempt to mix melee and arcane AND healing... He works very well... Being able to solo most quests in this game qualifies it as a decent build. He obviously doesn't ride on other's coat-tails... He's not an optimal raider (although he's better than most DPS builds in elite Hound), but he's still top-notch for current end-game quests like Prey, Kobold, SoS, and most of the Vale quests..

He's a great Shroud runner (favored enemies: constructs, evil outsiders, elementals).

Of all my characters, he's still the one I'd take first into a new dungeon, because he can handle anything... I proved that two nights ago, in Sins, he survived everything that quest threw at him (And there was no cleric in the group)...

Now in Mod 9, he's going to fall behind significantly... The PrE's are giving everyone big boosts, and he's not going to get one (I was glad to see that w/p is still useful in Mod 9, so he might be okay after all). Anyway, I'm exploring different ideas for him...

I got a chance to play around with level 7 wizard on the beta server... I'm not too impressed with a low-level firewall against end-game critters... That's all this post was about...

I think 15/5 is the way I'll go with him... The only reason this build has any DPS at all is due to favored enemies, so I should probably concentrate on that aspect of the build instead of diluting it further with more "fun" wizard levels... Besides Freedom of Movement would be really nice (I don't have those boots like Talon... man I'm jealous)

The first day of a new mod is when Talonkage feels the most powerful. He's by far my best char for facing the unknown.

I did Sleeping Dust the first day of the Vale mod with a pretty good group of people. The all could handle themselves well, and we succeeded our first time in there. I think we got two chests.
But we almost wiped near the end after you drop down the whole. But My char was the last one standing and I got everyone back to the shrine and held off everything that chased us until they were all up and ready to fight. (ok..partly because I blockd the gate to the shrine with my incapped body, but hey whatever works. )

Couldn't get in a Visions group at first because of my build. Just to see the quest I took my cleric, knowing darn well she can't handle herself nearly as well as Talon.
Sure enough she couldn't even keep herself alive.
When I finally got Talon in a group he barely got hurt. (granted I spent the first half Invisible waitng for instructions) I helped heal/buff/and remove curses from the main tank. Later took a more agressive standpoint as I got use to what was going on.

Talon's my prefered char to explore the unknown and get familiar with a quest.
Later I bring in other chars.
I've got different chars who are better at one thing or another than Talon, but noe of them can do nearly as much stuff as he can.

Edit: and I decided to go Rgr from here on out mostly because of the DPS issue.
But also because of a stronger ranged attack and because I need the skill points to keep my Rog skills up, and I think Wild Instincts will be very good for my Rog skills too.

/polishes his boots.