Gov't programs........ ?

[baddax]

I know of it too but I am not one. I have no party nor will I ever again fall into that trap.

But you have a very Libertarian view of government.

[Mithran]

To me, the problem with health care in the U.S. is a failure of the free market system we've had, with particular emphasis on the insurance companies.

I can remember once while my sister and I were in high school and my sister got sick with a really weird virus. Both my parents were working at good jobs and my sister and I were both insured by both their carriers. My father dutifully submitted the paperwork for claims to both companies, and both denied coverage, saying it was the responsibility of the other company. Unfortunately, it's an all-too-typical scenario.

[Ereshkigal]

One guilty person running free can do a lot more damage that 10 innocents in prison. I have seen this first hand.

I know we may never see eye-to-eye but I have been you and now I'm further down the path and can see the naivety of thinking the common good would prevail...

Well... I won't debate with you who is farther down which path.

I understand that any system can & will be abused. If that system does some good, then I see the abuse as simply part of the cost of doing that good. Sure, I think it should be minimized, but I would never agree that we should stop doing ( or never start doing ) the good simply because the "wrong" people are receiving part of the benefit. The "right" people are still benefiting, and that's really the point. The abusers just make it cost more.

[Thorboar]

I have to say....of all the places I have seen.....this is one of the best forums on the health care issue going on....I'm sick of seeing "my friends" in Facebook and other places going on and on and on about socialism and how the country is going ti $h1t with no thought put into it....basically they repeat or post directly from Fox news.....I may not agree with everyone one in this post but at least there is thought put into it....thankyou....DDO forums....go figure....

[Uska]

Well... I won't debate with you who is farther down which path.

I understand that any system can & will be abused. If that system does some good, then I see the abuse as simply part of the cost of doing that good. Sure, I think it should be minimized, but I would never agree that we should stop doing ( or never start doing ) the good simply because the "wrong" people are receiving part of the benefit. The "right" people are still benefiting, and that's really the point. The abusers just make it cost more.

Wrong they are breaking the system and because of such people many small hosptials are going out of business and so rural people might have to travel further for health care and in some cases such delay could be fatal if the abuse isnt stopped there might not be anything for anyone.

[Xaearth]

I have to say....of all the places I have seen.....this is one of the best forums on the health care issue going on....I'm sick of seeing "my friends" in Facebook and other places going on and on and on about socialism and how the country is going ti $h1t with no thought put into it....basically they repeat or post directly from Fox news.....I may not agree with everyone one in this post but at least there is thought put into it....thankyou....DDO forums....go figure....

Huh? I thought we were talking about government programs as they apply to healthcare, not the ideals of the current administration...

[Thorboar]

Huh? I thought we were talking about government programs as they apply to healthcare, not the ideals of the current administration...

Ok government programs......but I was just making an observation of the discussion....its just lately I dont see this kind of discussion else where....its nice to see...

[Arnya]

Ok government programs......but I was just making an observation of the discussion....its just lately I dont see this kind of discussion else where....its nice to see...

What else is there to do when we have run out of things to argue about?

Sheesh, not even Bran bothers trolling any more...

[captain1z]

What else is there to do when we have run out of things to argue about?

Sheesh, not even Bran bothers trolling any more...

Baaahh.


Im sure we can all find something to argue about. These are the forums after all.

[Arnya]

These are the forums after all.

No they're not....

[baddax]

Huh? I thought we were talking about government programs as they apply to healthcare, not the ideals of the current administration...

When you have the Mouth Piece of one political party saying they Want another parties policy to Fail (to make up for there own lack of ideas), it makes it difficult to seperate the two.

[baddax]

Having said that i find it very sad that there are not enough adults on the forums to have a political discussion thread. I also find it sad that turbine knows this and thus wont allow it.

I very much expect this thread to be swallowed by the cube shortly like a similar thread on " Saving the world" was recently.

[Zippo]

To me, the problem with health care in the U.S. is a failure of the free market system we've had, with particular emphasis on the insurance companies.

I can remember once while my sister and I were in high school and my sister got sick with a really weird virus. Both my parents were working at good jobs and my sister and I were both insured by both their carriers. My father dutifully submitted the paperwork for claims to both companies, and both denied coverage, saying it was the responsibility of the other company. Unfortunately, it's an all-too-typical scenario.

How can you disagree with me i haven't made a stance in one direction or the other in this thread (yet). I merely posed the debate that was at hand and one of the questions that was raised. I never at anytime implied which side of the debate I was on.

With that said I believe that something should be done but at the same time I am in the similar group as Uska on this debate. I can understand there are those who can not for one reason or another work, be it a mental or physical condition that is not conducive to a healthy work enviornment. For those people I do believe the health care should be afforded to them. Then there is the other group that abuses the system when they are more then capable of working. Those are the ones that myself believes does not deserve the assistance.

The problem is the regulating of who does and does not deserve. Who decides? Who is watching those who decides? Too many gray areas, I just hope we can make the right decision.

I work my butt off with a full time job a part time job I go to school and am paying support for my 2 kids and I'm struggling to get by as it is. I personally can't afford a uniform increase in taxes on a level they are proposing and I work for the government.

If that says anything

[Lorz]

What gets me is people are all over wanting to fix health care and some not...but nobody is addressing the single biggest expense area in health care...and the one thing that would cut costs by nearly 50%

TORT REFORM.....


Do this so malpractice isnt rampant and overnight health care would be MUCH MORE affordable.

Until this is addressed.....it will remain broken or unfixable.

[Fenrisulven6]

but nobody is addressing the single biggest expense area in health care...and the one thing that would cut costs by nearly 50%

TORT REFORM.....

Spot on. 25% of costs are from tests doctors order merely to protect themselves from greedy lawyers. But you won't see tort reform, as the Trial Lawyers Association is in cahoots witht the Democrat Party. Just look at what John Edwards did to medical practice in his home state.

[Fenrisulven6]

Government run health care leads to rationing.

/via Instapundit

A MUM suffering chest pains died in front of her young son hours after being sent home from hospital and told to take painkillers.

Debra Beavers, 39, phoned NHS 24 twice in two days before getting a hospital appointment. But a doctor gave what her family described as a cursory examination lasting 11 minutes, before advising her to buy over-the-counter medicine Ibuprofen.

Seven hours later, the mum-of-two collapsed and died from a heart attack in front of her 13-year-old boy.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-21567473/

Sidebar: I'm still laughing that anyone would put Public Schools up as an example in favor of government control of health care. Even the politicians who support public schools won't send their kids to one. You can be sure the same stadard will apply to the health care model - if you're connected, you get the best treatment available. If not, you get sent home with Advil and die.

[Mithran]

How can you disagree with me i haven't made a stance in one direction or the other in this thread (yet).

I based my opposition to your post when you colored the grounds of the debate by framing the question as follows:

"Should my tax money go to support the medical of people who refuse to work?"

Proceeding from the perhaps mistaken assumption that you are referring to Health Care Expenses when you say 'medical. . .'

When unemployment is up to 15% in parts of the country, your opinion is that those 15% are 'refusing' to work?

The problem is that the uninsured are having their health care costs paid for with higher premiums on those who do have insurance, insurance companies do their damnedest to refuse coverage with lengthy lists of 'exceptions to coverage' and many employers (Wal-Mart, for instance) won't pay for their employee's insurance coverage at all.

All the lies coming from the Right make me angry. They're unable to join the debate with the facts, so they resort to lies.

[Mithran]

Government run health care leads to rationing.

/via Instapundit

A MUM suffering chest pains died in front of her young son hours after being sent home from hospital and told to take painkillers.

Debra Beavers, 39, phoned NHS 24 twice in two days before getting a hospital appointment. But a doctor gave what her family described as a cursory examination lasting 11 minutes, before advising her to buy over-the-counter medicine Ibuprofen.

Seven hours later, the mum-of-two collapsed and died from a heart attack in front of her 13-year-old boy.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-21567473/

Sidebar: I'm still laughing that anyone would put Public Schools up as an example in favor of government control of health care. Even the politicians who support public schools won't send their kids to one. You can be sure the same stadard will apply to the health care model - if you're connected, you get the best treatment available. If not, you get sent home with Advil and die.

Well, there are a couple instances of bad health care. Congress got an earful when talking to people about how they'd had their existing coverage dropped by health insurance companies based on 'pre-existing condition exclusions' by insurance companies. S.O.P. is to deny coverage and see how it plays out rather than following the rules they laid down with their contracts.

[Fenrisulven6]

All the lies coming from the Right make me angry. They're unable to join the debate with the facts, so they resort to lies.

Ironic. You're repeating Obama propaganda about "lies from the right" and you're angry about it.

[Fenrisulven6]

More "lies" from the "right"

/via Instapundit

The American College of Surgeons is deeply disturbed over the uninformed public comments President Obama continues to make about the high-quality care provided by surgeons in the United States.

-- Yesterday during a town hall meeting, President Obama got his facts
completely wrong. He stated that a surgeon gets paid $50,000 for a leg
amputation when, in fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and
$1,140 for a leg amputation. This payment also includes the
evaluation of the patient on the day of the operation plus patient
follow-up care that is provided for 90 days after the operation.
Private insurers pay some variation of the Medicare reimbursement for
this service.

-- Three weeks ago, the President suggested that a surgeon's decision to
remove a child's tonsils is based on the desire to make a lot of
money. That remark was ill-informed and dangerous, and we were
dismayed by this characterization of the work surgeons do. Surgeons
make decisions about recommending operations based on what's right for
the patient.

We assume that the President made these mistakes unintentionally, but we would urge him to have his facts correct before making another inflammatory and incorrect statement about surgeons and surgical care.

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009...ff_a_leg_1.php