Gov't programs........ ?

[baddax]

It's a standard deduction. I was paying $240 a week - my ex received $29 a week from the government. The remainder went into the government 'slush-fund' that pays all benefits ie: unemployment, sickness etc.

Work that out over 18 years - I pay the government $224,640 and my son sees only $27,144 - if my ex doesn't spend the money on a night out on the booze (the reason we split in the first place....)

The worst thing is that my son was assessed at 18% of my income when living with his mum, but my 2 children I have living with me were assessed at 3% of my income each. This is ridiculous.

Whatever stupid things you do America, don't become socio-communist like New Zealand!!!

This is the problem with govenrment rules and regulations in general. They make NO sense!!

[Quanefel]

So you are against any form of govenrment in general?

No. I am for a government that our founding fathers originally designed for us. Not some big, bloated monster that it has become today. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

[Uska]

Before I put in my two cents, a lil bit about me:

I'm a high school graduate in my early 20s. Up until my senior year of high school I was at the top of my class. Then Hurricane Katrina happened. I ended up going from valedictorian to nameless nobody in the crowd at a northern public school in the span of a week. I'd lived in one place, one home my entire life. Between being uprooted unexpectedly, never getting a chance to say goodbye to my friends, and effectively having all my previous educational accomplishments stripped from me, I pretty much lost it. I've always been a bit obsessive compulsive, but now I've been diagnosed with mild depression, anxiety order, and agoraphobia. Without medication I literally cannot deal with any situation I cannot directly control.

Of course, because of all of this I had to withdraw from my first year of college. As soon as I did, my dad's insurance company drops me. I had some savings (my grandparents had set aside money for me from the day I was born), so I tried to pay for my own medical coverage. I had the money... And no one would take it. I had too many "pre-existing conditions" because of several surgeries I had when I was younger to correct a birth defect. So I ended up ****ing away my savings on COBRA, $400 a month for a year.

I'm now broke, without a job, without any work experience, without healthcare. I can't get a job without medication. I can't afford medication without a job. So what happens now? My parents, who applied for social security this year, are paying for my medications hoping and praying that I get accepted for medical assistance for the disabled so the costs are retroactively covered. In the meantime I'm working with a state government program that assists disabled persons in finding employment, but I haven't seen a psychologist or counselor since last year so I'm not making much real progress.

As far as most government programs go, I don't qualify. I'm in my early 20s, so I'm not old enough (senior citizen) and not young enough (minor). I don't have any kids or dependants. I live with my parents so anything wage based takes into account their income. I've never worked before (I'm a perfectionist, so I spent most of my time on school things; a lot of work goes into straight A's, even moreso if you're OC) so I don't qualify for social security. I may qualify for some of the programs for the disabled, but the process has been going on since November of last year. Between being bounced from doctor to doctor for tests and diagnosese, sending medical records to every buereaucrat in the US, and having to refile when they realize that I actually might just be disabled cuz they didn't believe me and did all of the original paperwork as that of a healthy young adult male...

All of that said, do I think the government should be handing out healthcare to everyone? NO.
But they do need to re-evaluate their current programs and procedures... Too many people get what they don't need and too many that really need help don't get anything.

As someone in the health care industry this is very true, your the kind of person I dont mind my money going to help because you want to work but need help to do so that kind of thing I dont mind its the lazy bums that just dont want to work that I resent. I wish you well and hope you get the help you need and deserve.

[baddax]

We have the ability to provide guaranteed healthcare to even the least of us. It won't be free, of course. And those that currently can't afford proper healthcare won't be contributing much to pay the bill.

That being said, I welcome a tax increase if it means everyone gets health care.

There are lots of issues being brought up as arguments against national health care. Look hard at those issues. I say they are separate from healthcare reform and should be dealt with separately.

The horror stories you may hear that scare you about nationalized healthcare were well-engineered to do just that. And they are just stories. We live in a digital age. Talk to a real person from a country that has a nationlized health care program. ( it's hard to find a wealth country that doesn't have a national program ). I could tell you what I think you'll hear when you ask, but that wouldn't matter. The trick is for you to actually ask.

Health for profit is ok but it should be regulated. Greed is far too rampant these days and healing people should not be entirely commercialized. If it is, we're all screwed in the end.

The tax payers pay for this anyways Not the Insurance comapnies. Every time someone gets sicka and goes to the hospital and has no insurance "we the people" foot the bill.

[baddax]

No. I am for a government that our founding fathers originally designed for us. Not some big, bloated monster that it has become today. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

So you are also against the Federal Income Tax?

[Uska]

We have the ability to provide guaranteed healthcare to even the least of us. It won't be free, of course. And those that currently can't afford proper healthcare won't be contributing much to pay the bill.

That being said, I welcome a tax increase if it means everyone gets health care.

There are lots of issues being brought up as arguments against national health care. Look hard at those issues. I say they are separate from healthcare reform and should be dealt with separately.

The horror stories you may hear that scare you about nationalized healthcare were well-engineered to do just that. And they are just stories. We live in a digital age. Talk to a real person from a country that has a nationlized health care program. ( it's hard to find a wealth country that doesn't have a national program ). I could tell you what I think you'll hear when you ask, but that wouldn't matter. The trick is for you to actually ask.

Health for profit is ok but it should be regulated. Greed is far too rampant these days and healing people should not be entirely commercialized. If it is, we're all screwed in the end.

I see to many people who get medicaid now abusing the system and your wrong about natinalized healthcare I have seen problems caused by it myself my wife is from a country with such a system and for some very serious issues people sometimes die waiting, also in America where some native Americans have their own health care systems they die waiting on their tribe to take care of them. I have been in the health care industry for over 20 years and so I know a little bit and have friends from several countries that have national health care as well as having talked to nurses, doctors and other healthcare workers from such systems.

[baddax]

No. I am for a government that our founding fathers originally designed for us. Not some big, bloated monster that it has become today. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

I agree with you for the most part. The problem is That govenrment does not exist anymore and hasnt since the Inception of the federal income tax And Social Security. What you are proposing is an Overhall (really a simplification or reversion to the original) and is not specific to Governmet Healthcare.

Would you be in favor of State Run health care?
Actually The federal income tax and Social Security are at the root of the problem IMO. The fact that our government has allowed Social Security to be Ra!@# only makes matters worse!

[Uska]

The tax payers pay for this anyways Not the Insurance comapnies. Every time someone gets sicka and goes to the hospital and has no insurance "we the people" foot the bill.

exactly we also pay for medicaid people who go to the ER like its a clinic everytime they have a sniffle seen about a dozen like that tonite already.

[Arnya]

But they do need to re-evaluate their current programs and procedures... Too many people get what they don't need and too many that really need help don't get anything.

Agree 100% and sympathise with your situation.

Because being unemployed or disabled in New Zealand means a free ride on the gravy train, the people who are really in need of help get treated like scammers because they don't go about applying for assistance in any devious manner - oxymoron anyone?

It's the bone lazy people that spend ages on a foolproof scam for tricking the system that mess it up for the honest, well-meaning folks who just need a help out to get back up to speed and providing for themselves.

[Lewcipher]

All I have to say is, the government is so non-red taped and smooth that it would be great for having them look out for me.

I mean..they run the DOT offices so smooth, I only spend 2 minutes in there to get a driver's license renewal! And the IRS..awesome efficiency! Only 2 weeks with a digital version, even though they are the ones who have the records!

I can't wait to have the government step in and control what I can and can't eat, since technically that affects my health.

Just WOW

[Quanefel]

So you are also against the Federal Income Tax?

Considering there is no law that states any of us is actually required to pay a federal income tax, then yes I am against it.

A man in my state of Illinois awhile back won a lawsuit because the state could not provide the statute that states we are required to file an federal income tax. Yet, no one does anything about it.

[Ereshkigal]

Where I come from nobody but the very wealthy have health insurance.

The government pays all welfare, schools, hospitals, roads, accident cover etc for everyone.

If you don't feel like working, you can just get the unemployment benefit. If you can find something to get the sickness benefit for, you are pretty much set for life without having to ever work another day.

When you don't work, everything gets paid for by the state - your food, accommodation, booze, cigarettes, hire purchases for car, x-box etc - everything.

When you do work, you have to pay for all of this stuff out of your own pocket. You have to pay for medical and dental unless you have an accident at work.

You also pay, at the bare minimum, 20% of all your income to the government. You get schools and roads paid for, but you are also paying for every lazy SOB that won't work.

When I was earning $72k a year, I was paying 42% income tax and 18% child support. 60% of my wages going to the government. I was struggling to pay weekly bills on a good income. I left the country as soon as I could.

Living in Australia this is what happens - I get refunds on medical expenses and any purchases related to my work. We receive family assistance payments because I work - to encourage me to continue to work.

I think all services should be user-pays. If you work, you get a refund on some or all healthcare, education expenses etc. If you don't want to work, you starve.

I read your post and it is obvious you're frustrated and feel betrayed by the systems under which you are living. I cannot attest to the fairness of what you've undergone. Nor do I know what your quality of life was like before and now after these reductions of your income.

I will say that I believe in any wealthy society, no one should go without healthcare or food or shelter.

Much in the way I believe it is better to let 10 guilty people go free than to convict 1 innocent person, I also believe it is better to take wonderful care of 10 people who could take care of themselves if they wanted, than to deny care to 1 person who desperately wants to take care of themselves, but is unable.

The trick is to try to route out the people abusing the system and make examples of them to discourage others from doing the same.

[baddax]

Considering there is no law that states any of us is actually required to pay a federal income tax, then yes I am against it.

A man in my state of Illinois awhile back won a lawsuit because the state could not provide the statute that states we are required to file an federal income tax. Yet, no one does anything about it.

I am fimiliar with the Libertarian movement.

[Ereshkigal]

The tax payers pay for this anyways Not the Insurance comapnies. Every time someone gets sicka and goes to the hospital and has no insurance "we the people" foot the bill.

You're right. I agree totally. And if these people had access to preventative medicine, it wouldn't cost us nearly as much as it does when they show up on the emergency room's doorstep.

[baddax]

You're right. I agree totally. And if these people had access to preventative medicine, it wouldn't cost us nearly as much as it does when they show up on the emergency room's doorstep.

thank you.

[Quanefel]

I am fimiliar with the Libertarian movement.

I know of it too but I am not one. I have no party nor will I ever again fall into that trap.

[Arnya]

Much in the way I believe it is better to let 10 guilty people go free than to convict 1 innocent person, I also believe it is better to take wonderful care of 10 people who could take care of themselves if they wanted, than to deny care to 1 person who desperately wants to take care of themselves, but is unable.

One guilty person running free can do a lot more damage that 10 innocents in prison. I have seen this first hand.

I know we may never see eye-to-eye but I have been you and now I'm further down the path and can see the naivety of thinking the common good would prevail...

[maddmatt70]

I do not know about the merits of socialized medicine, but I can speak to my belief that the U.S. has a horribly inefficient system that is very expensive and we do not get what we pay for. Rather then people just shooting down a proposed new system I would rather them come up with their own proposals because the current system sucks.

[baddax]

All I have to say is, the government is so non-red taped and smooth that it would be great for having them look out for me.

I mean..they run the DOT offices so smooth, I only spend 2 minutes in there to get a driver's license renewal! And the IRS..awesome efficiency! Only 2 weeks with a digital version, even though they are the ones who have the records!

I can't wait to have the government step in and control what I can and can't eat, since technically that affects my health.

Just WOW

I agree and it really pi!@@ me off when i get a ticket for no seat belt or not wearing a helmet while riding my bike.

[baddax]

Agree 100% and sympathise with your situation.

Because being unemployed or disabled in New Zealand means a free ride on the gravy train, the people who are really in need of help get treated like scammers because they don't go about applying for assistance in any devious manner - oxymoron anyone?

It's the bone lazy people that spend ages on a foolproof scam for tricking the system that mess it up for the honest, well-meaning folks who just need a help out to get back up to speed and providing for themselves.

If you answer questions honestly then you will be denied. Once you know the answers and If you answer correctly then you will be accepted.

For example i had a cousin on food stamps once she lived with a friend. They had to say " We always cook meals and eat seperately" on a questionaire otherwise they would be denied. Now who really does this? Room mates maybe but friends or relatives No.