Newb Melee Build Question

[kieljs]

As you can see I'm new to the forums. Have been playing a little while and will be getting 32 pt builds very soon. So, I'm planning my first 32pt character. My intent was to do a Dwarf TWF Kensai (with Dwarf Axes). I looked through Aranticus' templates (saw the Dwarf Footman Kensai), but have also seen a lot of references to some extreme DPS builds (Ravager, Exploiter, etc).

I do not have access to +2 tomes, have some +1 and can make up with turbine point +1 tome buys. I am not cut out for grinding gear (or tomes). My question.

What is a good (high) DPS build that I can make? I'm not too concernced with AC (I hear it's going to matter less in MOD 9). I do want TWF.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[Aranticus]

go L20 dwarf fighter, stats 18/16/16/8/8/6, use a +1 dex tome to qualify for twf feats

must have feats:
toughness
weapon focus
greater weapon focus
superior weapon focus
weapon specialization
greater weapon specialization
two weapon fighting
improved two weapon fighting
greater two weapon fighting
power attack

thats 10 feats, you have 18 feats

[Tharlak]

It looks really solid and like you mention there are still many extra feats to specialize some combat moves (improve trip, stunning blow).

Kensai is looking very attractive.

[Aranticus]

It looks really solid and like you mention there are still many extra feats to specialize some combat moves (improve trip, stunning blow).

Kensai is looking very attractive.

he wont get imp trip, not until there are +5 tomes. u need combat expertise for it and thus 13 int. but yes, stunning blow on dwarven kensai rocks

[kieljs]

Thanks guys, this really looks good and is certainly along the lines of what I have been thinking. Secondary question, how much "worse" is this than the MAX DPS (exploiter, ravager). Not that I believe I can compete, if nothing else no gear grind. But curious, I want to ensure that I'll pull my weight

[binnsr]

go L20 dwarf fighter, stats 18/16/16/8/8/6, use a +1 dex tome to qualify for twf feats

must have feats:
toughness
weapon focus
greater weapon focus
superior weapon focus
weapon specialization
greater weapon specialization
two weapon fighting
improved two weapon fighting
greater two weapon fighting
power attack

thats 10 feats, you have 18 feats

Don't forget Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Fighters are notorious for low will saves, so Iron Will and/or BullHeaded are always nice
That still leaves you with 5 or 6 feats for diversity training - shield mastery, the THF feat chain, other improved crit feats, etc.

[Thanimal]

Thanks guys, this really looks good and is certainly along the lines of what I have been thinking. Secondary question, how much "worse" is this than the MAX DPS (exploiter, ravager). Not that I believe I can compete, if nothing else no gear grind. But curious, I want to ensure that I'll pull my weight

I wouldn't worry about pulling your weight. I often find myself leading in kills with way less DPS than the suggested build, because DPS is largely about build optimization, and most people don't actually optimize very carefully. A Dwarf TWF pure Kensai that is well built is right up there in DPS, and may even pass the more famous builds (in potential that is, with the same gear) when facing high Fortification. I don't think anybody will be able to make a case that you're not a "real DPS."

On the original topic, is Evasion important to you? The only real disadvantage of the pure Kensai is the lack of Evasion. And getting it is costly because the Fighter capstone is awesome. The main reason I favor the Monster for a "pure" DPS build is that it achieves massive DPS while also having Evasion (with decent Reflex save) and just barely useful AC.

Final note: If playing a pure DPS build, please let the tank run in first. I get really frustrated seeing DPS build grab all the aggro right off the bat and take tons of damage that is completely unnecessary.

[binnsr]

Thanks guys, this really looks good and is certainly along the lines of what I have been thinking. Secondary question, how much "worse" is this than the MAX DPS (exploiter, ravager). Not that I believe I can compete, if nothing else no gear grind. But curious, I want to ensure that I'll pull my weight

Worse is a subjective term -- i would say that in my experience, the majority of folks that build an exploiter or ravager, or whatever the current flavor of the month build don't end up grinding all the gear on them that the build plan calls for. Typically, builds on the forums are showing the potential and unless specifically noted, don't need the majority of tomes (notable exceptions would be to meet feat requirements)

In the end, I wouldn't worry about whether you're doing more or less damage than one of hte forum-super-optimized builds. If you're having fun playing the character and the quests are getting done in a manner that pleases you, then drive on.

[Trillea]

In the end, I wouldn't worry about whether you're doing more or less damage than one of hte forum-super-optimized builds. If you're having fun playing the character and the quests are getting done in a manner that pleases you, then drive on.

Well said, sir!

[baylensman]

Most of don't like grinding. However the "grind" in this game is a little different. Just running quests with friends will result in lots of uber gear and plat to use at the store as a by products of leveling up. +2 tomes will drop in level 7 quests on elite. One thing no one mentioned is that some of the gear you will loot has stat bonuss attached +6 intel +6 strg ect. I'm not sure if stat bonus will qualify you for some or all of the feats. These will also help with your HP situation if you can grab a +6 con item. Sometimes more senior players will have some extra + stat items laying in the bank that they may lend or give to you.

[Thanimal]

+2 tomes will drop in level 7 quests on elite.

Really? I'm doing it wrong, then. I've never even seen a +1 Tome below a level 8/elite (Stormcleave).

One thing no one mentioned is that some of the gear you will loot has stat bonuss attached +6 intel +6 strg ect. I'm not sure if stat bonus will qualify you for some or all of the feats.

Nope. Feat prereqs are starting + level bumps + Tomes. Anything that can ever be removed (even through a respec) does not count toward feat prereqs.

[kieljs]

Thanks for all the info guys. Really good advice.

I'm going to give this relatively basic but effective build a go. Kensai looks real good and I really want that Fighter capstone.

As for the evasion question: I do like evasion (who doesn't). I did make an evasion build multiclassed with rogue, but in this build I'm really looking for that melee speed (so tempest or 20 fighter it is). Also never played a pure fighter, the large number of feats has got to be fun.

Thanks again.

[Thanimal]

Thanks for all the info guys. Really good advice.

I'm going to give this relatively basic but effective build a go. Kensai looks real good and I really want that Fighter capstone.

As for the evasion question: I do like evasion (who doesn't). I did make an evasion build multiclassed with rogue, but in this build I'm really looking for that melee speed (so tempest or 20 fighter it is). Also never played a pure fighter, the large number of feats has got to be fun.

Thanks again.

Sounds like you're all set. But just to make sure you have all information to find the build you'll most enjoy, The Monster does have Tempest *and* Evasion.

[Aranticus]

Don't forget Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Fighters are notorious for low will saves, so Iron Will and/or BullHeaded are always nice
That still leaves you with 5 or 6 feats for diversity training - shield mastery, the THF feat chain, other improved crit feats, etc.

well it really depends on how they kit it out and what are their playstyle. a player who is going to exclusively use min2 will not need imp crit due to it being keen. that said, its is a very useful feat for leveling or when using crit based weapons ie smiting, weakening

[Twerpp]

18 starting str, power attack, racial weapon with 1d10 base damage and x3 crits, twf chain, full weapon focus and spec feat chain. Plenty of HP's and more than enough dex than a dwarf needs to max ac in armor. Even if its not the most optimal build you could numerically make its looking pretty **** good.

[Aranticus]

In the end, I wouldn't worry about whether you're doing more or less damage than one of hte forum-super-optimized builds. If you're having fun playing the character and the quests are getting done in a manner that pleases you, then drive on.

well there is a big problem when your build is so gimped that it impacts the fun of others so much that they decide to put you on the dreaded list. when you find no groups to play with, it isnt much fun as well

[Aranticus]

+2 tomes will drop in level 7 quests on elite

misinformation. +2 tomes will drop only in quests/rewards at L17 difficulty (doesnt have to be on elite). there are exceptions, raid end chests and 20th rewards (except TS) can drop +2 tomes and vale quest rewards