Drow Rogue/Monk (another 18/2)

[wahrheit]

Since I unlocked drow I've been working on a fun to play character for getting up to 1750 favor. This is yet another attempt to that end.

The character generator reset my BAB to 1/1 at level 18 for some reason so I couldn't selected Greater Two handed weapons as a feat. Any thoughts on this? I based it on some of the cookie cutter builds I've seen running around, so let me know if I missed any feats (or threw any extras in that I don't need/xyz would be better).

Thanks

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.05
DDO Character Planner Home Page

AcroMonkey 
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(2 Monk \ 18 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 248
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 14
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            12                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               14                    15
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    14
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy             0                     0
Disable Device        4                    23
Haggle                4                    13
Heal                  2                     2
Hide                  1                     3
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  7                    34
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         1                     3
Open Lock             5                    26
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                4                    25
Spot                  6                    27
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                5                    34
Use Magic Device      4                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost IV


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I


Level 19 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV

[BlackRage]

Drop CON to 12 and bump DEX to 16

Dump the second Monk lvl - Rog19 gives another Special Ability and d6 SA.

You only need one Toughness


There is a bug in the chargen - try the latest version, I think the BAB issue is fixed.

[Demoyn]

Even with a 28 point build this character is better as a warforged.

[baddax]

im guessing you are going acrobat with this?
i agree with black rage drop con by 2 and bump dex by 4.
also you should be able to get greater 2 handed fighting as a feat at 15.
Not sure of the third tier pre for Acrobat but you might want to consider a 14 and 6 split for the second tier monk stances. Dependin on third tier Pre.
I believe wind stanceII , should stack with acrobt II.
other than that looks good.

[Thanimal]

Even with a 28 point build this character is better as a warforged.

I concur. And I'd argue Halfling is better still. In my opinion the only reason to consider Drow here is if you want the Finesse direction AND you plan to Intimidate. I am actually playing such a character and loving it (see link in signature). Otherwise, for the STR direction I'd look into Halfling and WF, and for a DEX direction I'd only consider Halfling, with or without 32-point builds.

Agree with those who pointed out that 19/1 makes more sense than 18/2 for Rogue/Monk split. However, to me the "key" Rogue level is 16 -- granting all the of the really good Rogue feats (Crippling Strike, Slippery Mind, Improved Critical). If you're going Assassin, you can't really consider less than 19 Rogue levels because of the DC being based on Rogue levels (and INT). But for Acrobat (which I like better), I'd encourage looking into the benefits of further splashes. Just something to consider; not really a recommendation.

I don't think you really want THF here. With Sneak Attacks backed by Subtle Backstabbing (max it!!!), you'll be able to deal FAR more damage in a TWF setup. This is yet one more reason to start DEX at 16 -- then you just need a +1 Tome eventually to qualify for the entire TWF line.

[Ron]

The character generator reset my BAB to 1/1 at level 18 for some reason so I couldn't selected Greater Two handed weapons as a feat. Any thoughts on this? I based it on some of the cookie cutter builds I've seen running around, so let me know if I missed any feats (or threw any extras in that I don't need/xyz would be better).

Yeah, upgrade your planner to 3.06. The 3.05 version has some serious issues, many of which were repaired in the next release.

3.06 is not exactly bug free, but it's a lot better than 3.05 is. We're getting ready to drop another update that will address the remaining issues.

[VowWoefist]

First - Pay attention to what Thanimal posted about Subtle Backstabber enhancement! I agree. I have a modified version of the The Phenx's BigF'nStick build, and what a difference it makes. My toon is lvl 13 and I don't even use Diplomacy hardly (nice because that is one less button to click as SB is passive). But if for some reason u dont want the subtle backstab u should at least go with max Diplo. You have built this with high dmg, but no aggro mitigation. Also, the loss on dex being low is a straight hit to your AC.

Also, I would not be taking Cleave so late. I like it over Stunning Blow. When that dmg swings on multiple mobs, it is sweet compared to potentially stunning one mob. But that is just my preference.

Oh, and I disagree with being able to get GTHF at lvl 15. You need a bab +11 and that is not until lvl 16 when it counts. Also, would not take 2nd toughness either. I actually picked up Combat Expertise which is great for AC especially in a pinch. That attack trade off of -5 to get +5 to AC is nice.

Just remember to have fun with this build. It is my favorite toon. I can do all rogue stuff without problem and yes I can get high kill count (or very close to it) in quests when I turn it all on... (not that really matters or means anything, but shows that the dmg output is there).

[baddax]

First - Pay attention to what Thanimal posted about Subtle Backstabber enhancement! I agree. I have a modified version of the The Phenx's BigF'nStick build, and what a difference it makes. My toon is lvl 13 and I don't even use Diplomacy hardly (nice because that is one less button to click as SB is passive). But if for some reason u dont want the subtle backstab u should at least go with max Diplo. You have built this with high dmg, but no aggro mitigation. Also, the loss on dex being low is a straight hit to your AC.

Also, I would not be taking Cleave so late. I like it over Stunning Blow. When that dmg swings on multiple mobs, it is sweet compared to potentially stunning one mob. But that is just my preference.

Oh, and I disagree with being able to get GTHF at lvl 15. You need a bab +11 and that is not until lvl 16 when it counts. Also, would not take 2nd toughness either. I actually picked up Combat Expertise which is great for AC especially in a pinch. That attack trade off of -5 to get +5 to AC is nice.

Just remember to have fun with this build. It is my favorite toon. I can do all rogue stuff without problem and yes I can get high kill count (or very close to it) in quests when I turn it all on... (not that really matters or means anything, but shows that the dmg output is there).

You are right it takes the third monk level before 15 to qualify for gthf/gtwf.

[baddax]

I concur. And I'd argue Halfling is better still. In my opinion the only reason to consider Drow here is if you want the Finesse direction AND you plan to Intimidate. I am actually playing such a character and loving it (see link in signature). Otherwise, for the STR direction I'd look into Halfling and WF, and for a DEX direction I'd only consider Halfling, with or without 32-point builds.

Agree with those who pointed out that 19/1 makes more sense than 18/2 for Rogue/Monk split. However, to me the "key" Rogue level is 16 -- granting all the of the really good Rogue feats (Crippling Strike, Slippery Mind, Improved Critical). If you're going Assassin, you can't really consider less than 19 Rogue levels because of the DC being based on Rogue levels (and INT). But for Acrobat (which I like better), I'd encourage looking into the benefits of further splashes. Just something to consider; not really a recommendation.

I don't think you really want THF here. With Sneak Attacks backed by Subtle Backstabbing (max it!!!), you'll be able to deal FAR more damage in a TWF setup. This is yet one more reason to start DEX at 16 -- then you just need a +1 Tome eventually to qualify for the entire TWF line.

/agree this build would be much better as a twf finesse build.

[Thanimal]

/agree this build would be much better as a twf finesse build.

Just to be clear, I'm not really advocating a Finesse direction, though it's certainly a viable option. I'm merely saying that I feel Halfling and TWF are better -- almost without regard to where else you take the build (unless you are silly like me and insist on Intimidating with your "Rogue").

[baddax]

Dont Haflings naturally lend themselves to DEX based builds, because of the -2 str +2 dex modifiers?

[Thanimal]

Dont Haflings naturally lend themselves to DEX based builds, because of the -2 str +2 dex modifiers?

If you've already decided on a DEX build, then Halfling is uber -- no doubt.

But even if what you want to do is a STR build, Halfling is usually still best for Rogues. The to-hit is the same, as the -2 STR is exactly compensated by the Halfling racial +1. So the only loss is 1 point of damage per hand, which is overwhelmed by the Halfling sneak attack enhancements. This is an inherent advantage regardless of 28 vs. 32 point builds. And the Halfling brings lots of other nice stuff to the table that can compensate or overwhelm other "benefits" of the Drow's point advantage (over 28-point Halfling), such as +1 AC, +1 saves, and oh-so-nice save enhancement line.

If building a Rogue with DPS in mind (which I think nearly all agree you should), I claim Halfling is clear #1, Warforged is worth consideration, and Drow is only worth a look if you want to Intimidate.

[baddax]

I was comparing the Strength Based Hafling Rogue to the Dex Based Hafling Rogue.

[Thanimal]

I was comparing the Strength Based Hafling Rogue to the Dex Based Hafling Rogue.

That's kind of apples and oranges, no? Strength-based is quite a bit more DPS; DEX-based can achieve very impressive AC and still have OK DPS. I don't think it's really possible to say one is better than the other.

[wahrheit]

Here's what I rolled up last night (I spent about 1.5 hours and got up to level 3 and have only died from trying to jump off a cliff to see if I *could* survive). I've been playing my 3pally/6mnk lately; but so far I've been solo, and not really used my TH feat (I've been using heavy maces since I didn't see the point of going QS til after getting the monk level, then I'll probably still use fists for awhile since it's 1d6 too).

Anyway, let me know if I gimped myself too bad (I tried to use the quarterstaff based build at http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960 as a basis sorta; unfortunately again, no 32pt build so ya)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.06
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(2 Monk \ 18 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 211
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 17
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    21
Dexterity            16                    20
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    13
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         1                     2
Diplomacy             3                    22
Disable Device        3                    22
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  3                     7
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  3                    20
Listen                0                     2
Move Silently         3                     7
Open Lock             7                    28
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search                3                    22
Spot                  4                    22
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                7                    22
Use Magic Device      3                    25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III


Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV


Level 19 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Will)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Will)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber IV

[baddax]

First - Pay attention to what Thanimal posted about Subtle Backstabber enhancement! I agree. I have a modified version of the The Phenx's BigF'nStick build, and what a difference it makes. My toon is lvl 13 and I don't even use Diplomacy hardly (nice because that is one less button to click as SB is passive). But if for some reason u dont want the subtle backstab u should at least go with max Diplo. You have built this with high dmg, but no aggro mitigation. Also, the loss on dex being low is a straight hit to your AC.

Also, I would not be taking Cleave so late. I like it over Stunning Blow. When that dmg swings on multiple mobs, it is sweet compared to potentially stunning one mob. But that is just my preference.

Oh, and I disagree with being able to get GTHF at lvl 15. You need a bab +11 and that is not until lvl 16 when it counts. Also, would not take 2nd toughness either. I actually picked up Combat Expertise which is great for AC especially in a pinch. That attack trade off of -5 to get +5 to AC is nice.

Just remember to have fun with this build. It is my favorite toon. I can do all rogue stuff without problem and yes I can get high kill count (or very close to it) in quests when I turn it all on... (not that really matters or means anything, but shows that the dmg output is there).

You can disagree if want but it doesnt change the facts.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.06
DDO Character Planner Home Page
Level 15 Lawful Good Human Male
(3 Monk \ 12 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 101
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 8
Will: 4
           Starting          Feat/Enhancement
          Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 15)
Strength             17                    17
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution          8                     8
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
 
Level 2 (Monk)
 
Level 3 (Monk)
 
Level 4 (Monk)
 
Level 5 (Rogue)
 
Level 6 (Rogue)
 
Level 7 (Rogue)
 
Level 8 (Rogue)
 
Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
 
Level 10 (Rogue)
 
Level 11 (Rogue)
 
Level 12 (Rogue)
 
Level 13 (Rogue)
 
Level 14 (Rogue)
 
Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting

Now more monk is not for everyone but but for an acrobt 13 rogue 3 monk (and in next mod 13 rogue 7 monk is also not a bad combo IMO. Of course we do not know the Teir III Pre but we do know that the tierII Monk stances stacks with the tier II Acrobat Pre.