Axesinger (28-point DPS Warchanter)

[drwranck]

Got to level 10... **** i can hit everything! hahaha! This build is crazy... and yes with some gears swaping you can get some traps!! Plus it's incredibly fun to play!

[GATORZ]

this should clear up any doubts on this build 33 min solo stormcleave lev 8







Went in on hard tonight got trapped by fire mephs at end and died went back in killed mephs and then boss only hiccup was not havin jump pots..... took 77 mins on hard w/ 1 death and 1 re entry .... gettin jump pots goinback in tom.

[porq]

I've been playing this build over the past few weeks, currently standing at 9/2/2.

I feel like I'm echoing half the posters here, but this is an exceptionally fun build. Also a big fan of the easiness of it. No +2/3 tomes, no uber gear to make the build mature, which is great because I've only been playing a few months and subsequently don't have access to that anyway.


The thing I like most about it is it's well rounded; it's able to cast key spell buffs, open some locked doors/chests(great for soloing!) bard song goodness, umd, and excellent damage output. For the soloing thing I do sometimes, this can cover most of the needs to get a quest done. Judging from the lack of complaints, I'm useful in groups as well. I'm not throwing out blurs on everyone or anything, just the occasional haste in battle or displacement on the tank. It's not uncommon for me to lead in kill counts either. All in all, a solid soloist and team player.

Thank you for posting a great build. +rep for you sir

[whysper]

Good stuff in this thread. I am leveling up Morrissey (28-point human) on Cannith with what looks like to be the same end split and feat selection...although I am still not certain about the Rogue - i.e. Evasion - part.

Aside from the obvious deficiencies* of less HP, lack of spell defence Enhancements and weapon Enhancements - which I will probably try to cover by taking Khopesh with as my extra Feat, not decided yet and currently the slot is occupied by Extend - I am going a bit differently with the levels: first, since I am not interested in traps/locks and because the fun factor outweighed losing a total of 8 skill points (with not much to spend them on) I am going:

1. Bard
2. Fighter
3-9. Bard
10. Fighter
11. Bard
12- At this point it gets a bit fuzzy.

The benefits for the early approach, as I see them, are gaining Warchanter, Haste, Inspire Greatness and Improved Critical earlier on, which for me greatly improves the fun while leveling. Lacking Evasion is pretty negligible until a bit after 10 (though having it earlier is certainly nothing to sneeze at.)

So the question becomes whether Evasion is a good tradeoff for pushing IC +2, Inspire Heroics and to a lesser extent 5th-level spells (i.e. GH) further back to 18 and 19 respectively. Having reveled in Bardic goodness since the servers first came up, I have a hard time letting those go - and they might be a hindrance considering party/raid makeup...but Evasion really starts to shine around that time, too. One option would be to just flat-out leave the Rogue levels for 18-20, but I think I will bite down and do 12-13 Rogue, 14-19 Bard, 20 Rogue and use Llyriel for a pure Bard when I have 32-pointers available (I like Elves*)

Currently at level 6 she is - obviously - Totally Über(tm), a blast to play and I do not forsee that changing. Having crappy gear and no gold is naturally a bit of a challenge, but that is why I went to Cannith...

* My well-known propensity for playing gimp builds.
* See above.

[Tusc]

I am building my first character, and though I have played other games that use a d20 system, I've never played a bard. But I figure the best way to learn is to do.

I liked the look of this build, but decided that being a first character and all, I didn't want to rely on tomes at all, and if I can add some in later...well great.

So I decided to dump dex and go with a greataxe and plug in 2 handed feats where this build gets two weapon feats. Doing so probably gets me lower dps at the end game, but right now at level 5 I am tearing ***** up.

I have no idea what gear is going to be available to me, just figure I'll work with what I find.

What I started with.

Str - 16 (All level ups here and +1 fighter str)
Dex - 8
Con - 16
Int - 8
Wis - 10
Cha - 14

My AC is in the toilet, but later on spells should help cover defense...somewhat. Cha is high enough that I don't have to get tomes to make it work. And my will save doesn't take as much of an initial hit. I'm a little squishy, but have a decent hit point sponge and I hit like a truck.

I'm soloing stuff on hard pretty easily. I might be able to solo some elite, but haven't tried yet. And leading kill counts in groups 90% of the time.

Anyway, I'm having fun with it and it seems ok for a first character to run through stuff. I'm probably missing something, but live and learn. I just need to get 1750 favor so I can build bigger and better. And hopefully I'll pick up some tomes and stuff along the way.

[Thanimal]

So I decided to dump dex and go with a greataxe and plug in 2 handed feats where this build gets two weapon feats. Doing so probably gets me lower dps at the end game, but right now at level 5 I am tearing ***** up.

This is a perfectly reasonable build direction for absolutely no Tomes on a 28-pointer. But you are correct that you'll have significantly lower DPS at higher levels -- an earlier post in the thread explained why.

What may also prove to be disappointing is that your Reflex save may not be good enough for Evasion to really be a major asset.

Anyhow, this should be fine -- a better build than most people are starting out with, that's for sure!

[Tusc]

Right now my Fort and Will saves are at the same value, with reflex one point behind. Don't know if that will cut it or not. I'm a freak about saves like you though, and took FOP as soon as I could.

[Tusc]

Actually, now that I stop and think for a second, I should have left Wisdom at 8 and bumped dex to 10, FOP makes wis completely useless. Learning as I go.

[tadpollard]

Good build. I have one up to level 5 now and no problems. I got a human bard/fighter up to 4/1, but the spell saves got me - got held by a boss kobold shaman and kept failing my saves and died. Spell saves on the Axesinger are a big help.

I have already changed the order of the feats, because I will not be dual weilding early on. Here is what I have done, and plan for the future:

1 - Tough (done)
2F - WF: Slash (done)
3 - FoP (done)
6 - Extend
8F - TWF
9 - PA
12 - ITWF
15 - ICrit: Slash
18 - GTWF

I am about to hit 6 and plan on taking Extend - will this kill the DPS too much by moving the other feats down a spot? Since I mostly solo, it may not even be an issue since I can just recast. Maybe I am just lazy.

Also, I noticed in the origial build the points spent on enhancements are off. According to my calculations (using ddowiki - not verified in game - I am a noob and could be completely wrong) the total comes to 88 points.

Bard Inspired Attack III costs 12 not 10 points
Bard Song Magic III costs 6 not 3 points
Dwarf Axe Damage II costs 6 not 3 points

To make it fit, I cut Dwarf Armor Mastery (6 points) and Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery (3 points).

Cheers.

[Aerendil]

What may also prove to be disappointing is that your Reflex save may not be good enough for Evasion to really be a major asset.

Anyhow, this should be fine -- a better build than most people are starting out with, that's for sure!

Yeah, exactly.
My general rule of thumb is if you go TWF, you should be ok on Evasion, given that your base Dex required for it should put you at mid-to-high 20s endgame with +stat gear, tomes, exceptional stat gear, and so on.

If THF, don't bother.

Barbarians learned this a long time ago

[Thanimal]

I have already changed the order of the feats, because I will not be dual weilding early on.

Curious why not, although your feat order seems fine. Ends up in the same place. DPS will notably trail the OP until 18, but oh well.

I am about to hit 6 and plan on taking Extend - will this kill the DPS too much by moving the other feats down a spot? Since I mostly solo, it may not even be an issue since I can just recast. Maybe I am just lazy.

What do you need to Extend at level 6? Blur? That lasts plenty long enough. The one you want Extend for is Haste. But this is splitting hairs -- I prefered to load up DPS first (a HUGE reason I planned Fighter 2 at 8 instead of later) because DPS tends to make the game easy at low-mid level.

Bard Inspired Attack III costs 12 not 10 points
Bard Song Magic III costs 6 not 3 points
Dwarf Axe Damage II costs 6 not 3 points

YIKES!! (And thanks for the headsup!) Your cuts make me very sad. I'll have to look back over this and see where I screwed up (or else you did -- but it doesn't sound like it!), and hopefully clean it up.

[Thanimal]

Also, I noticed in the origial build the points spent on enhancements are off.

Ok, hopefully I've fixed this. I had two typos (a 10 that should have been 12 and a III that should have been II) AND they seem to have changed the cost of Dwarven Axe Damage to 2 & 4. That makes sense since it's still a must-have at that cost, but it does change this build a bit.

Enhancements are always a little bit of personal choice, but I should at least have an OP that is POSSIBLE! Thanks again. Rep for the good catch.

[tadpollard]

Curious why not, although your feat order seems fine. Ends up in the same place. DPS will notably trail the OP until 18, but oh well.



What do you need to Extend at level 6? Blur? That lasts plenty long enough. The one you want Extend for is Haste. But this is splitting hairs -- I prefered to load up DPS first (a HUGE reason I planned Fighter 2 at 8 instead of later) because DPS tends to make the game easy at low-mid level.



YIKES!! (And thanks for the headsup!) Your cuts make me very sad. I'll have to look back over this and see where I screwed up (or else you did -- but it doesn't sound like it!), and hopefully clean it up.

OK, it's confirmed, I'm lazy. Although I did delay TWF, I will move Extend back to 18 - this is a DPS build after all. If you kill the mobs faster, then less time to hit you.

I am only level 5 atm, so I am not that invested - I will take a look at the enhancements that I cut. I see you reduced Song Magic 3 to 2, Lingering Song 3 to 2, and Wand Mastery 2 to 1 to make up the 8 points. I can always redo my enhancements.

[Tusc]

Since I can apparently buy 32 point builds as of today, and since my little bard is only level 5, and I already realized where I screwed up stats...I'm going to start him anew.

My question is, being a new player, if I start with the stat layout that you suggest for the 32 pt version of this build, can I reasonably expect to get a +1 tome to make the dex requirement for itwf by the time I get to that level? I know I can't get a tome for charisma by level 2, but I can hold off on FOP until I get one and then respec my feats, correct?

Basically, Is this a reasonable build for someone who doesn't have any tomes at all — yet. Can I make it work until I get the tomes I need? Are the +1 Dex and Cha the only ones that are absolutely vital to the build?

Thanks.

[Thanimal]

My question is, being a new player, if I start with the stat layout that you suggest for the 32 pt version of this build, can I reasonably expect to get a +1 tome to make the dex requirement for itwf by the time I get to that level?

+1 Tomes have been available in the DDOStore from day 1. I guess I think if you're willing to buy 32 point builds, the additional cost of two +1 Tomes is a minor point. (The build definitely does suffer if you try to reach the prereqs with no Tomes at all, since the next point of DEX costs 3 build points and the next point of CHA costs 2. Or you could take level-ups away from STR, which would be equally bad.)

It used to be I was one of the few people who published optimized 28-point builds. As of today, there may never be another one...

[TheKeg]

It used to be I was one of the few people who published optimized 28-point builds. As of today, there may never be another one...

Nooooo! I'm still undecided on purchasing or grinding out the 1750 favor (800+ currently). I like seeing 28 pt builds that actually amount to something!

[Thanimal]

Nooooo! I'm still undecided on purchasing or grinding out the 1750 favor (800+ currently). I like seeing 28 pt builds that actually amount to something!

In all honestly, I think 32-point builds are total non-sense. Never should have been added to the game. 28 means you gotta have a REALLY good reason to max any stat. 32 means some biulds feel rather unconstrained. Constraints are what make building interesting. (As proof, consider a 96 point build...)

But the reality of the game now is that nearly anyone who is interested in optimizing a build will have 32 points. And even if they don't, reincarnation means every build will SOMEDAY become a 32 pointer.

Fwiw, Vandt is at almost 1500 favor but I'm going to buy instead. Favor grinding is not entertainment (not even close), and I'm paying for entertainment. It's cheesy that Turbine is surcharging me to play the "real" game, but it's also worth it so oh well.

[Tusc]

I didn't realize you could buy +1 tomes from the ddo store. That's how new I am, other than playing for a short time at the end of beta and beginning of release, thus the 2006 Join date on my forum account.

And I agree, I don't think they should have added 32 point builds, but since they did, anything less is sub-par. And to I avoid the grind to be not sub-par, I'll pay for it.

So looks like I'm set to start rocking a killer lute solo like Jimi Hendrix playing the Star Spangled Banner.

[Blayz77]

i recently rolled the axesinger.. i remember before while reading through multiple threads that, it was said dwarven axe was the weapon of choice.. however isnt that a feat? or somethign you have to choose? i dont see it mentioned anywhere on when to get that feat.

i jsut want to make sure i didnt mess anythign up befor i get to far into it. from what i can see with a rapier and a shortsword i am a +3 and with duel dwarven axe i am +1

[Thanimal]

i recently rolled the axesinger.. i remember before while reading through multiple threads that, it was said dwarven axe was the weapon of choice.. however isnt that a feat? or somethign you have to choose? i dont see it mentioned anywhere on when to get that feat.

i jsut want to make sure i didnt mess anythign up befor i get to far into it. from what i can see with a rapier and a shortsword i am a +3 and with duel dwarven axe i am +1

Dwarven Axe ("Daxe") proficiency is granted to any Dwarf upon taking a level of Fighter (or Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger).

However, wielding TWO Daxes, incurs an additional penalty of 2 points of to-hit because the off-hand weapon is not "light." So it's pretty likely you don't want to do this at low levels. At higher levels, this build's to-hit value becomes pretty awesome, so the dual Daxe setup is generally optimal. Personally I started the dual-Daxe at 6, but kept a Daxe/Handaxe combo on a hotbar in case I came across anything with unusually high AC. Somewhere around 10, you'll probably do dual-Daxe nearly 100% of the time.

At VERY low levels, don't be afraid to use a shield. This is a big add to AC without much impact on early-game DPS. That probably gets put away for good somewhere around level 4-6.

Also note: Don't use Power Attack until higher levels. You have to take it because it's a prereq to Warchanter. But don't turn it on until at least 10, and probably turn it on "all the time" until around 16. Then maybe turn it back off for Epic content (based on what I'm hearing).