Shroud Smackdown!

[Hadrian]

At least get your facts right. We did not (innocent until proven guilty) state that we could and would do it better. However we/I did state that you could do it better with higher dps.

Since you got the thread deleted, we cannot link to the actual posts. So your defense is that you can claim that you did not say all of the obnoxious stuff you said on that thread because we can no longer link to it? I don't think that goes very far to repair your reputation.

My goal was to give an explanation of how you ruined your reputation here to the people coming over from the European forums so that they could better understand the responses in this thread.

Thank you for helping to make it clear.

[Yargore]

So you're seriously going to say that since you got the thread deleted, we cannot link to the actual posts. Based on this you can claim did not say all of the obnoxious stuff you said on that thread?

We didn't say that we could do it better. We vere accused of saying that plenty of times in tha thread, but what we said that the DPS in the video could be higher.
It got alot of people upset, so they brought out their biggest flamethrowers.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

So you're seriously going to say that since you got the thread deleted, we cannot link to the actual posts; therefore, you didn't do it?

My goal was to give an explanation of how you ruined your reputation here to the people coming over from the European forums so that they could better understand the responses in this thread.

Thank you for helping to make it clear.

Once again, you fail.
I am saying that I did NOT state that I could do it better. You're one of the few who believes that lie, and you use it only to bolster your own defense.

Saying that I am guilty until proven otherwise is just as much of a fallacy.
The law in almost every if not every country is that you're innocent until proven guilty. The lack of evidence have often kept criminals on the streets. But remotly as often as it has kept innocent people out of jail.

Reputation has nothing to do with this. Stating that it has proves exactly how biased you are.

[Hadrian]

We didn't say that we could do it better. We vere accused of saying that plenty of times in tha thread, but what we said that the DPS in the video could be higher.
It got alot of people upset, so they brought out their biggest flamethrowers.

What you said was that you could do it faster than us if you tried, but that you were only level 10 and still building up characters and gear on the servers so that it would be a long time before you could try.

Once again, you fail.
I am saying that I did NOT state that I could do it better. You're one of the few who believes that lie, and you use it only to bolster your own defense.

I read the text with my own eyes.

This is a pointless debate. You've said a lot of things that were either blatantly false or very misleading already. This is just something else you can add to your list of things you insult people about until you convince yourselves that someone might actually believe you.

[Yargore]

What you said was that you could do it faster than us if you tried, but that you were only level 10 and still building up characters and gear on the servers so that it would be a long time before you could try.

We said that your group could have higher DPS.

Then you guys obviously wanted us to do it ourselfs to prove that higher DPS was possible, but as we were only level 10 at the time we couldn't.

[Hadrian]

We said that your group could have higher DPS.

You also said that you could do it in less time. Word for word, I cannot remember but it was very close to "I have no doubt that we could do it in 12 or 13 minutes if we tried."

I don't have any more time to spend going around in circles with you all. I know you're just going to keep repeating the same ideas, but there is no point in arguing with people when they know that your statements are false. It's not like you can jsut say "I never said that," and expect all of us here who had the conversations with you to just forget that we saw you say it ourselves and believe you. Repeating it over and over and backing it up with insults does not further the conversation, and it's how you got to where you are on these forums.

[Yargore]

You also said that you could do it in less time. Word for word, I cannot remember but it was very close to "I have no doubt that we could do it in 12 or 13 minutes if we tried."

Wasn't that in this thread?

[Demonfire]

No matter how it ended up in a war of "mine is bigger than yours"... i still give two thumbs up to the op and his crew... 14 minutes shroud is still something i'm looking forward to see on Ghallanda!

/gratz

[Yargore]

No matter how it ended up in a war of "mine is bigger than yours"... i still give two thumbs up to the op and his crew... 14 minutes shroud is still something i'm looking forward to see on Ghallanda!

/gratz

Cheers.

[SimVerg]

It's fairly obvious the word "pre-made" describes the group far better than "pug".

[Yargore]

It's fairly obvious the word "pre-made" describes the group far better than "pug".

Why is that?
Because we did the LFM on the forums instead of ingame?

[Mhykke]

This is in response to both posts, as they're similar:

Then what is a pug exactly?

There is always restrictions on LFMs.

Just by putting level 15-16 in the LFM the element of pugging is lost to you.

in your words imo (also that tag code for your pony is so long, leave it away )

a pug just means that you pick up ppl via lfm no matter the restrictions
cause if you look for a tank, you also know what you get, someone with high ac and either intimi or alot of hate

they just made some more restrictions, but its still a pug

otherwise, if you set the lvlrange to 2-16 its not a pug anymore cause you put a resctriction on it and leave those lvl1s alone in the dust

I never said that simply asking for a tank doesn't make it a pug.

It's a matter of degree. It isn't "all or nothing". It's not simply either asking for information, or asking nothing at all. Asking for "a tank" is a bit different than laying out builds on the forums that you will accept, having certain people avoid applying b/c they don't fit those builds, having others apply and then questioning them about their builds and equipment, is it not? Please, just answer, do you see a difference in just asking for "a tank" and then doing what the OP did? There's an enormous difference.

You say that you use the LFM and ask for a tank, you know what you'll get, someone with a high ac and either intim or a lot of hate? This is not true at all. Using the LFM, and saying "looking for a tank", still doesn't mean you know what you're getting. Maybe you're getting someone who thinks they have a high AC, but it's only 40. Maybe they think they do tons of DPS, but they don't. Maybe they think they have a high intim, but it's only 28. Maybe you get someone that does satisfy your criteria, but he's never run the quest before. Again, huge difference. You don't gain any of that info. simply by asking for a tank. But when you put up a thread on the forums, and a person has to lay out build, equipment, maybe questioned about spells they carry (rage), questioned about enhancements, you gain much more information. The unknown quantity of pugging, you know, the part that makes pugging uncertain, is gone.

This is the entire point. You don't get a lot of information from the LFM panel just asking for a fighter, or a tank, or a bard, etc. You get a ton of information making people stay away from applying b/c they don't fit the specified criteria, making people specify builds, important enhancements, favored enemies, equipment, etc. As I've already stated, not only do you gain information about that character, but you also gain information about that player, knowing that he's an experienced shroud runner. Again, do you or do you not think there's a difference b/w just asking for a tank, and doing what the OP did? This is not hard, nor is it a close call.


Finally, nobody responded to the question I asked earlier. If we are to take yargore's and absolute's contention at face value, that this group fits under the definition of pug, then:

When someone complains about a pug they're in, or when 3 guys late night say "there's not enough people on, let's pug it", does anyone out there, even for a split second, think that there's a possibility that the people complaining are complaining about a group that was put together over the course of 5 days, on the forums, and builds and equipment were specified? Does anyone, for a split second, think that there's a possibility that the 3 guys late night are suggesting, when they say "let's pug it", that they're suggesting "let's put up a thread on the forums, take certain builds with certain equipment, then reconvene in 5 days and start the quest"? B/c, if the group the OP posted about is simply a pug, then when someone complains about a pug, or says "let's pug it", we'd have to, if only for a split second, consider that maybe "pug" could mean a group of people put together over the course of 5 days, specifically selected according to set criteria, from the forums. I think we can all see this is beyond ridiculous, as nobody in their right mind would even consider that the word "pug" includes this definition.

And finally, if we are to consider the OP's group a pug, then what do we call a group that was put together in 5 minutes on the LFM? Superpug? You're telling me there's no difference b/w the 2? That they're both just pugs?

Enough of this.

Edit:

Your group was not a pug

and if you don't believe in the US server lag, I suggest you watch this video of the '3 minute lag wall' we could consistently reproduce. I especially like the part where I'm dead, but still doing damage on the portal.

Garth

Watching the OP's video, then this video, there's just no comparison as to the difference lag makes. Anyone arguing otherwise isn't only trying to fool others, he's trying to fool himself.

[HeavenlyCloud]

This thread could have gone a lot better if the thread name was "Fastest Lag Free Part 4 and 5!"

[Yargore]

I have answered every point ten times already.

And finally, if we are to consider the OP's group a pug, then what do we call a group that was put together in 5 minutes on the LFM? Superpug? You're telling me there's no difference b/w the 2? That they're both just pugs?

Why can't we just call it what it is, a pug?

Get a group through LFMing = pug.
Now if you do it in 5 days or 5 minutes doesn't matter.
Nor does it matter if the LFM only says " "quest name" + level 16-16" or " "quest name", know the quest well + level 16-16"

[HeavenlyCloud]

I have answered every point ten times already.




Why can't we just call it what it is, a pug?

Get a group through LFMing = pug.
Now if you do it in 5 days or 5 minutes doesn't matter.
Nor does it matter if the LFM only says " "quest name" + level 16-16" or " "quest name", know the quest well + level 16-16"

Pfft lets call it fpug!

[smatt]

Bah, all of you completely ignored the fact that my buggers are far bigger, better, and nastier looking than any of yours.... Bunch of chicken **** gimps

[beelzebaba]

Actually, I left US because the standard of the average powergamer was too low (no disrespect meant). And because it would take ages to farm together 10 characters with dual mineral II and other stuff.

Take ages ? Like more than 5 days?
So you couldnt get this done on the US servers because of lag maybe, or does this mean that even by posting an lfm on the US server(Thelanis was it?) you were on for 5 days like you did on EU server, still couldnt put it together.

Surely you arent saying you couldn't form one of your so called pugs on Thelanis to get this done. Or maybe all the power gamers suck like you clearly stated here.... im sure they werent disrespected.

Id like to see this done on a US server. Im sure you can find 10 monsters on Thelanis over a 5 day period. Oh wait im sure the ppl on thelanis who might have helped you, probably blacklisted you for saying they all suck.... without disrespect of course

[Mhykke]

Take ages ? Like more than 5 days?
So you couldnt get this done on the US servers because of lag maybe, or does this mean that even by posting an lfm on the US server(Thelanis was it?) you were on for 5 days like you did on EU server, still couldnt put it together.

Surely you arent saying you couldn't form one of your so called pugs on Thelanis to get this done. Or maybe all the power gamers suck like you clearly stated here.... im sure they werent disrespected.

Id like to see this done on a US server. Im sure you can find 10 monsters on Thelanis over a 5 day period. Oh wait im sure the ppl on thelanis who might have helped you, probably blacklisted you for saying they all suck.... without disrespect of course

It's ok though, I mean, he did add in the "no disrespect meant". As long as you add that in, you're good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0T0H9vD4c

[Yargore]

Id like to see this done on a US server. Im sure you can find 10 monsters on Thelanis over a 5 day period. Oh wait im sure the ppl on thelanis who might have helped you, probably blacklisted you for saying they all suck.... without disrespect of course

I wouldn't class Legion as average powergamers though

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Take ages ? Like more than 5 days?
So you couldnt get this done on the US servers because of lag maybe, or does this mean that even by posting an lfm on the US server(Thelanis was it?) you were on for 5 days like you did on EU server, still couldnt put it together.

Surely you arent saying you couldn't form one of your so called pugs on Thelanis to get this done. Or maybe all the power gamers suck like you clearly stated here.... im sure they werent disrespected.

Id like to see this done on a US server. Im sure you can find 10 monsters on Thelanis over a 5 day period. Oh wait im sure the ppl on thelanis who might have helped you, probably blacklisted you for saying they all suck.... without disrespect of course

If you can cap 10 characters and gear em out with dual minerals in 5 days, I must congratulate you. But frankly, it is completely impossible without exploiting. Period. I did not mean 10 different players. I mean that it takes "ages" for me to cap and gear out 10 characters like I have on the EU servers.

Did I say every powergamer sucked? No? Though so. I said that the average powergamer standard was too low.

I would not call Legion "average powergamers", nor would I call Pestilence that. But perhaps you do not know what the word average means.

I "couldn't" pull it together as I had little shroud / raid gear. And I "didn't" bother to farm it together as it would be like doing the same thing twice.