2 Rogue / 14 Bard Healing Haggler

[Arthur1977]

I am thinking of a heavy repeater healing/haggler Bard 28 point build. I am more focused on support rather than front line action for this character. This build is not designed to to be an elite build but serviceable to be a good group mate and help me unlock my favor rewards (namely 32 point builds). If you notice any glaring errors please let me know. My only real concern is about what order should I take my feats in from level 9 on, is it better to take a spell penetration or meta magic feat? I would also like to thank everyone on DDOCast.com who offered their advice to all my questions.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.06
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Chaotic Good Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 14 Bard) 
Hit Points: 132
Spell Points: 761 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 5
Reflex: 14
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity            14                    14
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    24

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               6                    21
Bluff                 3                     7
Concentration         3                    24
Diplomacy             7                    26
Disable Device        6                     6
Haggle                7                    31
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     2
Intimidate            3                     7
Jump                  4                    19
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                     2
Open Lock             6                    14
Perform               n/a                  26
Repair                2                     2
Search                6                     7
Spot                  3                     4
Swim                  3                    11
Tumble                3                     3
Use Magic Device      7                    31

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Haggle
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Concentration I
Enhancement: Bard Haggle I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Heavy Crossbow


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Haggle II

[Thrudh]

I am thinking of a heavy repeater healing/haggler Bard 28 point build. I am more focused on support rather than front line action for this character. This build is not designed to to be an elite build but serviceable to be a good group mate and help me unlock my favor rewards (namely 32 point builds). If you notice any glaring errors please let me know. My only real concern is about what order should I take my feats in from level 9 on, is it better to take a spell penetration or meta magic feat? I would also like to thank everyone on DDOCast.com who offered their advice to all my questions.

If you're going to be a support character bard/rogue, you should max out your trap skills (spot, search, disable device)... Also keep Perform, UMD, and Haggle maxed out... Put a couple of points into Open Lock..

Take rogue 1st level and 7th level

It's a good build, I also built a bard/rogue and used it to unlock my 32 point builds. I probably wouldn't bother with skill focus: Haggle or UMD... Instead get Spell Focus: Enchantment.. I'd probably get Extend earlier too...

[Arthur1977]

Thank you for the advice. The problem that I am encountering with the feats is that I cannot take any meta magic ones at first level. As of yet I have no idea how to swap them out in game (although I hear it can be done). Getting extend earlier sounds good too, I will swap it with mental toughness.

Also why do you suggest taking rogue at 1st and 7th levels. What would the added benefit be?

Once again thanks for everything!

[Thrudh]

Thank you for the advice. The problem that I am encountering with the feats is that I cannot take any meta magic ones at first level. As of yet I have no idea how to swap them out in game (although I hear it can be done). Getting extend earlier sounds good too, I will swap it with mental toughness.

Also why do you suggest taking rogue at 1st and 7th levels. What would the added benefit be?

Once again thanks for everything!

The reason to spread out your rogue levels to make it easier to "catch up" on skills... You don't want to spend points on cross skills if you can help it. For instance, don't spend any points on Perform (a bard skill) when leveling up as a rogue...

See, you have a human with an INT of 14... That's good for this character... Your rogue levels will get 11 skill points, your bard levels, you'll get 9 skill points...

1st level rogue... you get to max out 11 skills (Disable, Search, Spot, Open Lock, UMD, Haggle, Jump, Balance, etc.)

2nd level bard - to keep maxing out Disable, Search, Spot, UMD, and Haggle will cost you 8 points, because Disable, Search, and Spot are cross-skills, and cost 2 points each... leaving only 1 point extra... You're already 4 behind on Perform, so what you'll do is probably skip Spot a little...

Disable 2
Search 2
UMD 1
Haggle 1
Perform 3

Now, if you do rogue at 3rd level, you can make up that Spot point you missed at 2, but you'll actually have points left over, which you'll just spend on things like Balance or Jump... which is okay... but it would be better to wait to take the Rogue level so you use those extra points all on your core skills...

3rd level bard
Disable 2
Search 2
UMD 1
Haggle 1
Perform 3

At this point you're at

Disable 6
Search 6
Spot 4
Open Lock 4
UMD 6
Haggle 6
Perform 6

4th level, you could probably take a rogue level here...

Disable 7
Search 7
Spot 7 (spent 3 points here to catch up Spot)
Open Lock 7 (spent 3 points here to catch up Spot)
UMD 7
Haggle 7
Perform 6

1 extra point left over for Jump or something

From then on, you continue to keep Disable, Search, Spot, UMD, Haggle, and Perform maxed (okay perform will be 1 behind max, but good enough)

After writing all this out, I guess it doesn't matter that much if you take rogue at 3... looks like 4th level is a slightly better spot to keep your trap and lock skills in good shape...

[Thrudh]

Oh, and you can swap feats out by talking to Fred in House J... He's a Mindflayer...

[Varr]

my haggle bot is a drow 14/2 right nor and is a fun toon to play. 71 haggle atm. I found a level ten para bow usefull and at raid time all I'm really asked to do is songs rage haste. Vorp occationally. I was laughing because I just made her a holy goodbuest +2 cha rapier and I said to my guildie I would lilly almost never swing it. Ah well. Fun build....drow fem in the black dragon leather....tasty!

[Arthur1977]

ok, I have added in all the rogue skills but my open lock is only at 10 (it that enough for endgame stuff once I get some + items)? I could not move up the extend feat because of the Spellsinger enhancement, or would it be more advised to take that at level 9 then I could switch the feats.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.06
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Chaotic Good Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 14 Bard) 
Hit Points: 132
Spell Points: 761 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 5
Reflex: 14
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity            14                    14
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    24

                 Feat/Enhancement
                  Modified Skills
Skills             (Level 16)
Balance                  6
Bluff                    7
Concentration            7
Diplomacy               11
Disable Device          21
Haggle                  31
Heal                    -1
Hide                     2
Intimidate               7
Jump                     4
Listen                  -1
Move Silently            2
Open Lock               10
Perform                 25
Repair                   2
Search                  21
Spot                    18
Swim                     3
Tumble                   3
Use Magic Device        31

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Haggle
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Concentration I
Enhancement: Bard Haggle I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Heavy Crossbow


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Haggle II

[Mockduck]

Oh, and you can swap feats out by talking to Fred in House J... He's a Mindflayer...

Don't forget, he's also the unofficial, publicly-approved mayor of Stormreach!

The reason to spread out your rogue levels to make it easier to "catch up" on skills... You don't want to spend points on cross skills if you can help it. For instance, don't spend any points on Perform (a bard skill) when leveling up as a rogue...

See, you have a human with an INT of 14... That's good for this character... Your rogue levels will get 11 skill points, your bard levels, you'll get 9 skill points...

1st level rogue... you get to max out 11 skills (Disable, Search, Spot, Open Lock, UMD, Haggle, Jump, Balance, etc.)

2nd level bard - to keep maxing out Disable, Search, Spot, UMD, and Haggle will cost you 8 points, because Disable, Search, and Spot are cross-skills, and cost 2 points each... leaving only 1 point extra... You're already 4 behind on Perform, so what you'll do is probably skip Spot a little...

Disable 2
Search 2
UMD 1
Haggle 1
Perform 3

Now, if you do rogue at 3rd level, you can make up that Spot point you missed at 2, but you'll actually have points left over, which you'll just spend on things like Balance or Jump... which is okay... but it would be better to wait to take the Rogue level so you use those extra points all on your core skills...

3rd level bard
Disable 2
Search 2
UMD 1
Haggle 1
Perform 3

At this point you're at

Disable 6
Search 6
Spot 4
Open Lock 4
UMD 6
Haggle 6
Perform 6

4th level, you could probably take a rogue level here...

Disable 7
Search 7
Spot 7 (spent 3 points here to catch up Spot)
Open Lock 7 (spent 3 points here to catch up Spot)
UMD 7
Haggle 7
Perform 6

1 extra point left over for Jump or something

From then on, you continue to keep Disable, Search, Spot, UMD, Haggle, and Perform maxed (okay perform will be 1 behind max, but good enough)

After writing all this out, I guess it doesn't matter that much if you take rogue at 3... looks like 4th level is a slightly better spot to keep your trap and lock skills in good shape...

This is an excellent writeup. I'm thinking of splashing 2 rogue with my Favored Soul when DDO: U hits to get evasion. I'm not sure whether to go disable device or not yet, depends on whether I can make it useful enough to help me when I solo (and in groups, too, I guess as a backup).

[Impaqt]

Investing a feat into Heavy Repeater with such a low Dex score seems rather counter productive.

do you have a whole bunch of heavy repeaters your itchin to use?

I also dont think you need to worry about SF: UMD. being a bard, you will be able to get that UMD up to really high levels already, No fail heal scrolls for sure, and proobly even higher than that come level 20.

If you wanna stick with the repeater, I would consider rapid reload as a feat at L1. It'll at least reduce the amount of time between firing. Maybe even a Toughness feat in there at L1. Thats a Pretty weak CON and HP Total. Even after modifiers. Repeater builds dont need STR.. Mabe drop STR to 9 and up CON to 13 and use Human adaptability enh to even those out.

[Rightousdude]

I have a similiar build but used drow. It is easier to get a good Dex, Intel and Charisma