Elven Falchion Barbarians

[spifflove]

Forget the numbers, If you like the Elf, play an Elf.

The difference in DPS between Dwarves, Warforged, Elves or any race is extremely miniscule in the grand scheme of things, so just play the one you like. Or play them all.

Well spoken. Of course halflings rulz

[Monkey_Archer]

I think your wrong about the x2... You take a triple positive Falchion and consider 30% of swings are crits and that will over take any x3 crit weapon. And lets face it, end boss fights are where we want the damage. Lest not forget that all those burst effects that require a crit hit always land even if the mob has 100% fort.

Never said it was bad... it is nice for burst effects, enfeebling, etc..
But, all kensai 3 gives is a +1 critical threat, which benefits a low base damage/low multiplier scmitar/falchion very little compared to high multiplier axes or picks....
The seeker bonuses from kensai 1 & 2 on the other hand benefit the high threat scimitar/falchion alot more then axes or picks.
It just works out better for the scimitar/falchion (dps wise) to stop at kensai 2.

[Thrudh]

I don't how it could be remotely worth spending feats or even class levels on something that you can make on a Greensteel helmet, or that any Bard, Sorc, or Wiz can cast on you 30 times a day.

Probably not worth the feats and APs... but it would take 3 Greensteel items to match the 6/day displacements you get with the feats and APs... (plus aren't there items in Mod 9 that give you even more dragonmark uses?)

And you certainly can't count on any bard, sorc, or wiz to cast displacement on you unless you're in a well-run guild group. My melees in PUGs get displacement cast on them for the tough fights maybe 10% of the time.

I don't think the displacement dragonmarks are worth the feats (well, except on an elf fighter, who has the feats to spare), but I wouldn't say "not remotely worth it". Displacement is huge for a melee.

I would think an elf falchion 18/2 barbarian/fighter with those dragonmarks would be a viable build. 95% of the DPS with 50% more survivability. Decent trade-off.

[kodiak974]

Never said it was bad... it is nice for burst effects, enfeebling, etc..
But, all kensai 3 gives is a +1 critical threat, which benefits a low base damage/low multiplier scmitar/falchion very little compared to high multiplier axes or picks....
The seeker bonuses from kensai 1 & 2 on the other hand benefit the high threat scimitar/falchion alot more then axes or picks.
It just works out better for the scimitar/falchion (dps wise) to stop at kensai 2.

To each their own I guess, but I will take 5% extra crit range when ever I can. I could say that Kensai Weapon Mastery I and II isnt worth it for a Great Axe but any extra damage is worth it. Either way, 15% crit x3 or 30% crit x2, both will come out to about same damage unless you factor in burst effects over time.

[Thanimal]

yeah.. I have plenty of ingredients so a displacement item is the way to go form me.. I would only consider dragon marks on a fighter build as it just takes up too many valuable feats.

Since nobody cares about Displacement, could somebody remind me why we're talking about Elf? Anybody can swing a Falchion, and a WF (Barb or especially Kensai) has more DPS and better glancing blows. WF Immunities come along for free.

This post is NOT sarcasm -- I am genuinely wondering what advantages of the Elf I am forgetting. I don't seem to see any listed on this thread so far, but I may just be missing something.

[rimble]

Since nobody cares about Displacement, could somebody remind me why we're talking about Elf? Anybody can swing a Falchion, and a WF (Barb or especially Kensai) has more DPS and better glancing blows. WF Immunities come along for free.

This post is NOT sarcasm -- I am genuinely wondering what advantages of the Elf I am forgetting. I don't seem to see any listed on this thread so far, but I may just be missing something.

You missed that in Mod 9 Elves will get a racial enhancement line for Falchions/Scimitars, similar to the existing Rapiers/Longswords enhancement line.

I think I'd still prefer the WF THF Enhancements, WF immunities, and the generic damage boost of Power Attack Enhancements that works with all weapons.

[Thanimal]

You missed that in Mod 9 Elves will get a racial enhancement line for Falchions/Scimitars, similar to the existing Rapiers/Longswords enhancement line.

Good point, but I didn't miss that. WF still get more (from PA enh) unless we're having trouble hitting stuff -- is anyone worried about hitting with a Barb or Kensai? (Again, not a rhetorical question.)

And WF get the extra glancing blow chance, too. Seems to me total THF DPS in non-trivially higher.

[rimble]

Good point, but I didn't miss that. WF still get more (from PA enh) unless we're having trouble hitting stuff -- is anyone worried about hitting with a Barb or Kensai? (Again, not a rhetorical question.)

And WF get the extra glancing blow chance, too. Seems to me total THF DPS in non-trivially higher.

I think WF Barbarian (mine is only level 4) stacking Power Attack Enhancements can get into territory where they miss. Do you get into that situation just taking the normal Barbarian Power Attack III? If so, this could negate two of that I guess.

I dunno, I'm not really feelin' it either.

[gfunk]

Since nobody cares about Displacement, could somebody remind me why we're talking about Elf? Anybody can swing a Falchion, and a WF (Barb or especially Kensai) has more DPS and better glancing blows. WF Immunities come along for free.

This post is NOT sarcasm -- I am genuinely wondering what advantages of the Elf I am forgetting. I don't seem to see any listed on this thread so far, but I may just be missing something.

That was why I started the thread!:

1) I was wondering if there were any other advantages that people could think of by taking elf (other than the +2 damage/hit they are going to get with falchions).
2) Was there really any effective advantage for a barbarian by going with a higher crit range THF slasher (other than dps).

On a personal note, I'm avoiding making non-casting WF atm because I hate the difficulties with self-healing (and the limitations with incoming healing amp!). I made a WF fighter/monk awhile ago, and even with high AC I find him to be challenging to stay self sufficient (maxed umd ranks, still need some gear, but its not going to be reliable for self healing).

Oh, and I like displacement... and thrudh's suggestion about using them on a fighter splash seems like a good one (though I want to go pure barbarian to see the effects of the capstone on glancing blows).

[gfunk]

Good point, but I didn't miss that. WF still get more (from PA enh) unless we're having trouble hitting stuff -- is anyone worried about hitting with a Barb or Kensai? (Again, not a rhetorical question.)

And WF get the extra glancing blow chance, too. Seems to me total THF DPS in non-trivially higher.

yeah... but going WF means more dependancy on others.. and chugging pots at 20hp/hit is just depressing...

And I do think that the -5 to hit WF will get relative to Elf may become important at some point... only a gut feeling, so take that for what it is worth.

[rimble]

That was why I started the thread!:

1) I was wondering if there were any other advantages that people could think of by taking elf (other than the +2 damage/hit they are going to get with falchions).

Higher Dex and Search/Spot Enhancements provide slightly better synergy with Rogue? That'd still be only 4 Dex/+2 Reflex Save though, and I guess you could make an Evasion Barbarian that could do traps and such if you wanted.

[rimble]

yeah... but going WF means more dependancy on others.. and chugging pots at 20hp/hit is just depressing...

You're referring to the Elf being hit less because of Displacement Dragonmarks? I'm still not sure how to fit those in well. That's an extremely exorbitant cost for a pure Barbarian at least.

And I do think that the -5 to hit WF will get relative to Elf may become important at some point... only a gut feeling, so take that for what it is worth.

Well, the Elf spends a bunch of APs to get +2 Hit, +2 Damage. The WF spends less to take -1 Hit, +2 Damage...the damage is already equal at that point...so I think it's really how much does -3 ToHit matter? And then of course it goes up from there to -5.

[kodiak974]

Just do like everyone else and make a WF or Dwarf Barbarian.... Because people will call you gimp otherwise, I mean dont try and be a little different. Honestly after the Mod, wont be much difference between damage using an Elf. A WF is nice as long as you have mage friends because no one likes a 600HP char that heals 60pts with a scroll. And I have seen plenty of them before someone says they all get healers friend and healing amps.

[gfunk]

You're referring to the Elf being hit less because of Displacement Dragonmarks? I'm still not sure how to fit those in well. That's an extremely exorbitant cost for a pure Barbarian at least.

I'm refering to healing pot usage. A wf is stuck with lousy repair pots (or silver flame pots I guess). An elf can use healing amp to get to 189% healing amp (nearly doubling the effectiveness of cure pot usage and making them way easier to keep alive from other incoming healing.. of course, a human would be even more surviveable at 245%.) Not many people have made the effort to put healing amp into their builds, but the difference really matters to me after playing both a high amp build (I have human fighter with 245%), and a hard-healing build (my WF fighter). Humanoid healing amp builds offer so much more possibilities for self healing (more effectiviness from cure over time effects for example).

[Shade]

Nothing is stopping an elf from using weighted mauls as well
a couple extra dc isnt that big of a deal.

Imo it is quite a big deal. It's the first ~17 DC that aren't a big deal on the D20, the last few? they make all the difference.. When you get to the point where you'r trying to scrap in a few more DCs - those seem to make all the difference.

Just from personal experience, I have 4 barbarians.. 2 are newer and have about ~42 strength, one is my old main that is maxxed and has usually ~46 strength. It's only 4 more, for 2 more DC.. But he seems to stun stuff all the time, where my other guys get constantly resisted.

Anyways it's the old "it's not 10%" arguement (or 15% in this case since it goes to +3) - the same as a sorcerer taking spell focuses or not. As long as the game's DCs vs Saves are fairly balanced, the last few points make quite a huge difference. There is a decent discussion about it here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=193600

[rimble]

I'm refering to healing pot usage. A wf is stuck with lousy repair pots (or silver flame pots I guess).

Yeah, that's the truth. Parked my WF Barbarian at Level 4 (he's overleveld to nearly level 6 though) to play the Mod 9 stuff at appropriate level, and already I don't know how I'm going to afford him. Fortunately some candy canes have gotten me by until now.

In regards to healing, I frequently hear the counterpoint that WF can be healed from more sources than fleshies. I'm not sure how much that matters, but there's that too. Does anything affect how well Repair spells heal you? Healing Amp doesn't apply does it?

Ultimately I don't think your race choice matters a WHOLE lot for a Barbarian...the only thing I particularly dislike about the Elf is aside from the Falchion enhancement, they don't offer anything else particularly appealing to a THF Barbarian.

[gfunk]

Yeah, that's the truth. Parked my WF Barbarian at Level 4 (he's overleveld to nearly level 6 though) to play the Mod 9 stuff at appropriate level, and already I don't know how I'm going to afford him. Fortunately some candy canes have gotten me by until now.

In regards to healing, I frequently hear the counterpoint that WF can be healed from more sources than fleshies. I'm not sure how much that matters, but there's that too. Does anything affect how well Repair spells heal you? Healing Amp doesn't apply does it?

Ultimately I don't think your race choice matters a WHOLE lot for a Barbarian...the only thing I particularly dislike about the Elf is aside from the Falchion enhancement, they don't offer anything else particularly appealing to a THF Barbarian.

I'm pretty sure healing amp does nothing for repairing. The option to be healed by a caster is nice in some situations, but with the groups I play in those situations arent a big factor (self sufficiency is more of a factor for me).

And I agree.. elf appears rather unappealing. Falchion just doesn't seem to be enough (though maybe radience will work out nicely). Oddly, I prefer trying to make something good out of a slightly non-standard build (and try and find a niche that they are good at) then just going out there and making the current most powerful build. Here's a great example.. kudos to this guy: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=193199

[spifflove]

I'm pretty sure healing amp does nothing for repairing. The option to be healed by a caster is nice in some situations, but with the groups I play in those situations arent a big factor (self sufficiency is more of a factor for me).

And I agree.. elf appears rather unappealing. Falchion just doesn't seem to be enough (though maybe radience will work out nicely). Oddly, I prefer trying to make something good out of a slightly non-standard build (and try and find a niche that they are good at) then just going out there and making the current most powerful build. Here's a great example.. kudos to this guy: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=193199

Elves are still appealing as twfs. I agree its going to be the rare barb elf thf. But then again an 18 10 16 barb isn't the end of the world gimpy. Compare those starting stats to this popular build:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=116814

[Monkey_Archer]

For a FB a good bodyfeeder falchion could really be a handy weapon when there arent clerics around...

And yes +2 to hit matters on a THF. Ask shade

When twitch attacking you have -5 PA, -3 PA enhancements -4 moving
total: -12 to hit

So an elf/dwarf with -10 to hit vs a WF with -15 IS a big deal.

[Shade]

For a FB a good bodyfeeder falchion could really be a handy weapon when there arent clerics around...

And yes +2 to hit matters on a THF. Ask shade

Bodyfeeder = Garbage. Too expensive an enchantment to be worth it. You'll always do a ton more DPS using a DPS weapon like a shroud wep and not using frenzy, then using a crappy +1 bodyfeeder falchion of lesser ooze bane.. (or even a +5)
Due to that you'll die faster using one then not, as the mob will deal more damage to you then you'd avoid by killing him with a proper weapon and not frenzy.

If you can't find a cleric, just find a favored soul - there will be 9192038912381293 billion of em running around in mod9 lol. Just like back when monks came out ,everyone and there mom played one.

+2 to hit matters for everyone. In some cases even more so for TWF.. -4 to hit all the time, and more if you had to dump str to get the dex for it.. Hell +1 to hit matters, every point always counts.