Elven Falchion Barbarians

[gfunk]

Are there many people out there who have tried this on Beta? Obviously, not many people would choose Elf as a barbarian, however the elf does get the +2 falchion enhancment, and now that weapon speed is fixed they should do some pretty decent damage.

Certainly, I think the other races have better features which make a typical good barbarian, i.e.:

Dwarf: lots of Con/hp, tactics enhancments, axe enhancements, good saves/balance
WF: lots of Con/hp, tactics enhancments, PA enhancments, good immunities (esp immunity to exhaustion)
Human: human stat versatility, healing amp

I'm pretty sure that most people will continue to choose mostly one of the above races for barbarians, and Elves will continue to be a rarity even given the mod 9 changes. There just doesn't seem to be enough advantage for going elf to compete with the other races. The improved crit effects from falchion might be nice, but things like radience aren't adding a tonne of damage unless you are a halfling. And you are better off with twf for things like stat damaging.

Anyways, I rolled one up just to be a contrarian (and partially because I had been collecting falchions for the last couple of months anyways and needed to use them somewhere). If anyone has some experiences with an elven barb, I would like to hear about it.

[Thanimal]

Been discussing this recently. It seems the main reason to consider Elf, once the damage gets at least close to WF or Dwarf is the possibility of Displacement Dragonmarks.

But this ain't easy because Barbarians have just enough feats (through 16) for Toughness [all the more relevant on an Elf], Power Attack, iCrit, 3 x (TWF or THF). The extra feat at 18 is "available" for a Dragonmark, but you need two. And really it hardly seems worth it without Extend, since that works FREE on the Displacement Dragonmark, making it equivalent to doubling the number of times you can use it per day.

So it seems a splash for extra feats is needed, with the only options being Fighter (which can get many of the normally required feats as FBF) and Wizard (for Extend). Sadly, Wizard seems to have almost no other synergy with the build -- neither Repair nor Shield wand is all that useful here. But 2 Fighters levels do bring a few nice-to-haves like +1 STR and FHB1.

So I think I'd do two Fighter levels for a master feat list (through 20) of:
Fighter: iCrit, gTWF (I like these as FBFs so you can grab them exactly at the level they unlock)
Base (in no particular order): Dragonmark x 2, Extend, TWF, iTWF, Toughness, Power Attack

As you say, I'm not really convinced this is actually worth building compared to some other Barbarians. The lower CON cutting into Rage time is HARSH, and the DPS is ultimately a little less than what WF can achieve with PA (unless enemy AC is extremely high).

But I think it's at least interesting. And maybe there's something there.

[Lymnus]

But I think it's at least interesting. And maybe there's something there.

I think what we're missing is that it's, quite possibly, better to go Kensai than it in Barbarian here. Just because, as you said, feats.

[Memnir]

I think what we're missing is that it's, quite possibly, better to go Kensai than it in Barbarian here. Just because, as you said, feats.

I've been trying to come up with a good build for a TWF elven scimitar Kensai for that very reason.

I still think that with the changes to THF and the racial enhancement line - WF will be the way to go for two-handers.

[Monkey_Archer]

I've been trying to come up with a good build for a TWF elven scimitar Kensai for that very reason.

Kensai 3 is really lack-lustre for a x2 multiplier weapon.... Best dual scimmy fighter ive found is the basic monster build for seeker bonuses.

[Twerpp]

If the best dwarven and warforged 2h barb players in DDO rolled falchion elf barbs and played with the same gear and skills I doubt a single person in their parties or guild could tell a noticeable difference.

Just come up with a good story for your elven maniac!!!!

[kodiak974]

Kensai 3 is really lack-lustre for a x2 multiplier weapon.... Best dual scimmy fighter ive found is the basic monster build for seeker bonuses.

I think your wrong about the x2... You take a triple positive Falchion and consider 30% of swings are crits and that will over take any x3 crit weapon. And lets face it, end boss fights are where we want the damage. Lest not forget that all those burst effects that require a crit hit always land even if the mob has 100% fort.

[Angelus_dead]

Been discussing this recently. It seems the main reason to consider Elf, once the damage gets at least close to WF or Dwarf is the possibility of Displacement Dragonmarks.

Uh, in mod 9 an elf has definitively more damage than a dwarf.

I don't how it could be remotely worth spending feats or even class levels on something that you can make on a Greensteel helmet, or that any Bard, Sorc, or Wiz can cast on you 30 times a day.

[Thanimal]

Uh, in mod 9 an elf has definitively more damage than a dwarf.

Are you refering to THF? I can't think of how the DPS relationship in TWF has changed, since theoretically Rapier is the same DPS as Scimitar. Am I forgetting something?

I don't how it could be remotely worth spending feats or even class levels on something that you can make on a Greensteel helmet, or that any Bard, Sorc, or Wiz can cast on you 30 times a day.

Fair point. Could make you a lot more flexible for PUGing, though? Also, a build is going to have dozens if not hundreds of hours on it before it has a Greensteel helmet, given that being a lower priority than optimal DPS weapons.

[Borror0]

Are you refering to THF?

He is.

Best THF weapon: Falchion
Beast TWF weapon: Khopesh

Thus, elf is highest DPS than dwarf for THf and both are even for TWF.

[Shade]

Forget the numbers, If you like the Elf, play an Elf.

The difference in DPS between Dwarves, Warforged, Elves or any race is extremely miniscule in the grand scheme of things, so just play the one you like. Or play them all.

[Angelus_dead]

Also, a build is going to have dozens if not hundreds of hours on it before it has a Greensteel helmet, given that being a lower priority than optimal DPS weapons.

To build a good weapon takes larges (and lots of them), while a Displacement clicky only uses med and small. Because for about a year mediums dropped more and were spent less, there are many players with a big supply that they'll trade away with very little encouragement needed. (Even the fact that they can now spend mediums on TOD rings won't raise the demand much)

[cforce]

To build a good weapon takes larges (and lots of them), while a Displacement clicky only uses med and small. Because for about a year mediums dropped more and were spent less, there are many players with a big supply that they'll trade away with very little encouragement needed. (Even the fact that they can now spend mediums on TOD rings won't raise the demand much)

I think the time that Thanimal's referring to is the time it takes to level a character to being Shroud-ready in the first place, not the actual Shroud runs. A displacement clicky doesn't help from levels 6-14, because it doesn't exist yet.

Of course, who cares about non-end-game-content?

[Thrudh]

I don't how it could be remotely worth spending feats or even class levels on something that you can make on a Greensteel helmet, or that any Bard, Sorc, or Wiz can cast on you 30 times a day.

Probably not worth the feats and APs... but it would take 3 Greensteel items to match the 6/day displacements you get with the feats and APs... (plus aren't there items in Mod 9 that give you even more dragonmark uses?)

And you certainly can't count on any bard, sorc, or wiz to cast displacement on you unless you're in a well-run guild group. My melees in PUGs get displacement cast on them for the tough fights maybe 10% of the time.

I don't think the displacement dragonmarks are worth the feats (well, except on an elf fighter, who has the feats to spare), but I wouldn't say "not remotely worth it". Displacement is huge for a melee.

I would think an elf falchion 18/2 barbarian/fighter with those dragonmarks would be a viable build. 95% of the DPS with 50% more survivability. Decent trade-off.