How much Balance does a man need?

[Thanimal]

(1 rep point to the first person to identify the "reference" of the thread title. [Unless somebody tells me that awarding rep points that way is not allowed.] )

Has anybody studied what Balance DCs are in the game? It seems to me there is a threshold where you have enough Balance to always succeed on your first Balance check. For any build that is skill-point constrained (and most are), it seems like it would be key to know what that threshold is.

Anybody know? If not, anybody have an educated guess?

[Gnorbert]

Tolstoy might have the numbers you're looking for.

I don't have the DC numbers but the image of sacrificing every other skill for balance and getting yourself killed for maybe failing a concentration check made me laugh.

[Thanimal]

Tolstoy might have the numbers you're looking for.

DARN! I gave you rep too recently!

I don't have the DC numbers but the image of sacrificing every other skill for balance and getting yourself killed for maybe failing a concentration check made me laugh.

Yeah, it's exactly because Balance is such a "secondary" skill that I'd like to put the minimal possible points into it, and use left-overs for other nice-to-haves like Jump, Spot, and even Repair. (The particular build I'm working on really doesn't *need* any skills at all -- even Intimidate is merely nice-to-have because it holds aggro with Hate. So I find myself with skill points to spare, but still want to use them as best I can.)

More importantly, I'd think many builds with "moderate" skill points would run into this issue: Would like to succeed on essentially all Balance checks, but thereafter would rather put points into other nice-to-haves.

[KingOfCheese]

From personal experience, I try to get my "balance" builds to 40 for max benefit. That seems to do the trick in terms of immediate pop-ups, immunity to Titan knock down, etc. 30+ is solid--but doesn't seem the guarantee that 40 is. 40-15 (item) -4 (GH) -2 (head) - dex bonus (say +3 to +15 depending on build and gear) = 4 to 16 ranks needed (depending on dex) (subtract 6 if you have a +6 skills Shroud item).

[kuro_zero]

The Balance DC is the same as the opposed STR check for a trip (and none to certain vs Comet Fall knockdown).

From my experience, my rogue splash toons only have the 4 ranks I put into it at first level. With a moderately decent dex (24-26ish) I have not noticed NOT getting up on the first balance check after. My Sorc has 5 ranks in balance, but wears those named boots with 20% striding and +10 balance. GH and all gets me up every time (heh...)

To clarify, besides my sorc (because of abysmal dex) I do not use a +balance item. No negative impact, even in titan.

[Thanimal]

So the first two guesses are 11 and 30? I may need some more information... But thanks to those who have provided what they know!

Do you really wear a Balance item, KoC? Seems like a pretty minor thing to use a slot on in a game where slots can be a limiting factor on end-game characters uberness. I guess I could see "Feather Falling of Balance" but it seems to me I'd almost always prefer "Feather Falling of Jump"?

[Vahyor]

There really is no one DC to hit to always succeed. The DC is going to be dependent on what caused you to get knocked down in the first place, and enough balance for 100% success now may not be sufficient for the future. However, having high 20's you will rarely see a failure. low to mid 30's seems to be enough to succeed on everything but titan knockdowns (even then, you will get thrown around a lot less than someone with no balance).

[Thanimal]

Now I'm REALLY getting confused. Since when does balance help you avoid getting knocked down? As far as I can tell that is only modified by STR or DEX, whichever is greater?? The only Balance checks I've ever seen in-game are to get back up.

[KingOfCheese]

Do you really wear a Balance item, KoC?

Situationally. My rogue is super high without, so no need on him. My ranger wears the Titan boots (30 striders and +10 balance) and that gets him over 40 (these are swapped with feather fall boots when needed). My sorc puts on a +15 item in Titan--but otherwise doesn't bother. My baby STR-rogue (currently 13) puts on +15 boots in Titan--but otherwise doesn't bother (and won't need them at cap). The capped toons are so item tight--I would only wear balance if it is already on something (like striders) or if I swap to it in particular situations (Titan, cat duty on Shroud, maybe during lots of giant fights like Sorjek).

[Vahyor]

The titan's hammer attack which sends people flying about the room seems to be based on balance score, but in other cases the balance check will indeed be used to get back up after being knocked down.

[KingOfCheese]

There really is no one DC to hit to always succeed. The DC is going to be dependent on what caused you to get knocked down in the first place, and enough balance for 100% success now may not be sufficient for the future. However, having high 20's you will rarely see a failure. low to mid 30's seems to be enough to succeed on everything but titan knockdowns (even then, you will get thrown around a lot less than someone with no balance).

This has been my experience as well. Titan has set the high mark. 40 gives immunity (not sure where the exact break point is--might be 39, 38, etc.--but low to mid 30s still gets some toss around).

[Thanimal]

Ok, starting to get it. So situationally I'd like to be able to hit 40. So realistically perhaps I can wear a +15, have a GH on (4), a +2 luck bonus, and a +2 Bard bonus (since I'll ask to Bard for it before trying to tank the Titan). So it seems the "cap" for getting significant value from raw ranks+dex value is 17.

OK, interesting. That suggests just a touch more investment there over even-less-important stuff like Repair.

THANKS GUYS!

Changing subjects a bit: I just read that Jump effectiveness is actually capped at 40. Can anyone confirm?

[KingOfCheese]

Changing subjects a bit: I just read that Jump effectiveness is actually capped at 40. Can anyone confirm?

That is the rule that I have heard (and noticed personally).

[Phidius]

Ok, starting to get it. So situationally I'd like to be able to hit 40. So realistically perhaps I can wear a +15, have a GH on (4), a +2 luck bonus, and a +2 Bard bonus (since I'll ask to Bard for it before trying to tank the Titan). So it seems the "cap" for getting significant value from raw ranks+dex value is 17.

OK, interesting. That suggests just a touch more investment there over even-less-important stuff like Repair.

THANKS GUYS!

Changing subjects a bit: I just read that Jump effectiveness is actually capped at 40. Can anyone confirm?

I'd recommend not tanking the Titan, unless his shield is down. Even then, I keep my distance (bloody pillar-droppers - you know who you are )

[Vahyor]

(bloody pillar-droppers - you know who you are )

This is my only motivation to be careful enough to leave at least a pillar standing after taking out the titan.

And yes, the increase from jump points above 40, if any, is negligible.