Weapon Choice

[Giddian]

When choosing a Weapon, What do you look for exactly? I was looking at the damage of the weapon, obviously I was wrong. Like a +4 Short Sword that does 7.8 damage {Guessing} is not what to look at. Some one please educate me. I love the Game and wish to make the right choices

[Gnorbert]

There are many things to consider when choosing your weapons.

1. crit range or "threat" range - this is the die roll the item will crit on. the higher the range, the more often the crits, more crits = more damage.

2. crit multiplier - the multiplier ranges from x2 to x4.

these two together are the most important part of the damage you'll be doing in general. For instance a Khopesh has crit threat range of 19-20 / x3. So it's damage and your strength bonus to damage are multiplied by 3 on a crit and it has a 10% base chance to crit (crits on a die roll of 19 or 20).

Compare that to a long sword which is 19-20 / x2. So on the same crit range the longsword only gets multiplied by 2.

These are both 1d8 slash damage weapons but the khopesh is clearly superior.

3. the next thing about weapons is situational use based on the enemy you are fighting. Use blunt against skeletons and oozes, use slashing against zombies and most living things, piercing against living things as well.

4. next will depend on racial bonuses and enhancements, drow get enhancements for short sword and rapier, Elf get longsword enhancements, dwarven melees get dwarven axe proficiency for free plus an enhancement line to go with it.

5. Next the roll of your character. DPS types tend to take feats that augment slashing weapons and use khopesh or dwarven axes. Some builds use heavy and light picks as DPS and so they take pierce feats (Picks have x4 crit multiplier). On the other hand, if you want to do more stat damage or other effects that trigger on crits then typically you would take piercing weapon feats and use rapiers. Improved Critical feat for piercing weapon will Rapiers crit on any roll of 15-20 which makes effects from crits apply faster.


With two handed weapons you typically are in contention with the swing speed animation which unfortunately favors the greataxe weapons. With some changes in the upcoming release this should be fixed and you can use the advice above for two handed weapons as well.


Also remember that crits are determined by the unmodified die roll only. Your bonuses to attacks are factored in after the swing is determined to be a crit or not.

Hope this helps, I'm sure there are other more experienced people who can fill in gaps.

[LawstCawz]

Jan 06 join date. Interesting.

[Gnorbert]

Might have tried it, quit and then reapped recently due to recent announcements.

/shrug

[Giddian]

That is Very Interesting. I think this is where it looses the casual Player. Most people wont ask. If you play WoW or even LotRO you normaly go by DPS. Quick and easy. All that well and good but what you have just explained makes it alot more realistic. I like it.

Yes I have played 4 about 3-4 Moths on release and just came back to it last month. People allways seemed to do better than me on attacks and I never figured out why. it was in a recent group I had when some one gave me a weapon to use and was hitting better and it looked like a worse weapon. thats the reason for the Question

[hydra_ex]

Gnorbert is entirely right, but just to say what (generally) the best weapons are, so that there is no confusion:

For STR based TWF or S&B characters:
1) Khopesh
2) Dwarven Axe is acceptable for Dwarves with the axe enhc line
3) Heavy Picks are good for high STR Barbarian who plan to take the frenzied beserker line when mod 9 comes out.
3) Scimitar/Rapier deal decent damage as well, and have the highest crit range in the game. They are even better in the hands of elves who get enhc to increase their damage (scimitar line comes out in mod 9)
4) Shortsword, kukri or Handaxe (this is only to wield in your offhand if you go TWF if you find yourself missing a lot with two normal weapons and do not have the OTWF feat. Choose handaxe if you have IC:Slash or are a dwarf. Choose the Shortsword if you have IC pierce. If you have IC slash and are not a dwarf, the kukri deals decent damage as well)

For DEX based TWF or S&B characters:
1) Rapier
2) Shortsword (this is only to wield in your offhand if you find yourself missing a lot with two rapiers and do not have the OTWF feat)
3) Kukri (very good if you have IC:Slash, otherwise, its about as good as a shortsword, and if you have IC: Peirce, its worse than a dagger)
3) Daggers come a close second to shortswords

For THF characters:
1) Greataxe
2) Greatsword/Falchion (although now these are much inferior due to slower attack speed, in mod 9, they are faster, putting the Greataxe, Greatsword and Falchion at about the same damage)

For Ranger archers, or those with the bow strength feats (to be released in mod 9):
1) Longbow

For other archers (or those without the bow strength feat):
1) Repeating light crossbow

For high STR, situational archers, without bow strength (namely fighters and barbarians without any range spec):
1) Throwing axe

For monks concerned with being centered:
1) Kamas for stat damage if you TWF
2) Handwraps for DPS for TWF monks or STR based
3) Quarterstaves for STR based monks

If you do not plan to fight very often, and only have proficiency with simple weapons:
1) Heavy Mace/Morningstar (melee)
2) Light Crossbow (ranged)

[szaijan]

One consideration that is often overlooked is the reach of a weapon. Longer weapons can hit their target from further away. The in-game difference between a shortsword and a longsword seems trivial, but you actually need to get marginally closer to the target to hit with the shorter weapon. In a battle where the target is on the move (most of them) not getting a swing because the target has moved out of range can cost you far more DPS than you'll make up with superior stats on a weapon.

In addition, I prefer to avoid piercing weapons where I can. The damage resistance against piercing weapons seems to be ubiquitous when compared to DR against slashing weapons.

The above list ignored the Kukri, which is a decent off-hand, light weapon alternative to the shortsword or handaxe. It only does a d4 base damage, but has better critical characteristics than the other two.

[hydra_ex]

One consideration that is often overlooked is the reach of a weapon. Longer weapons can hit their target from further away. The in-game difference between a shortsword and a longsword seems trivial, but you actually need to get marginally closer to the target to hit with the shorter weapon. In a battle where the target is on the move (most of them) not getting a swing because the target has moved out of range can cost you far more DPS than you'll make up with superior stats on a weapon.

In addition, I prefer to avoid piercing weapons where I can. The damage resistance against piercing weapons seems to be ubiquitous when compared to DR against slashing weapons.

The above list ignored the Kukri, which is a decent off-hand, light weapon alternative to the shortsword or handaxe. It only does a d4 base damage, but has better critical characteristics than the other two.

Forgot to add kukri, I knew I was forgetting something...
But if you have IC: Pierce, the shortsword will deal better damage, and if you are a dwarf, the handaxe will. The kukri will deal good damage for a character without those. As an offhand for DEX based chars, it is usually useless, as most DEX based characters choose to spec with rapiers, and thus the dagger (1d4 19-20/*2) becomes 1d4 17-20/*2 in the hands of a rapier spec, while the kukri is worse at 1d4 18-20/*2. That is, unless, this DEX based character gets IC: Slash for the sole purpose of using kukris, which is not unheard of.

Also, as to the reach of the weapon, as you said its marginal, and IMO, can only be noticed when using a THF weapon. IF you use a THF weapon, most have the same reach, and you probably won't be using both a one-hander and a THF on the same toon unless your a fighter build with a hybrid AC mode and DPS mode, in which case the greataxe will always be used for fighting anyways.

[Giddian]

I was giver a Couple of Sicles {Frost No +'s} to use with my 7th Lvl Rogue {Duel Weild} as aposed to 2 +4 Short Swords.

[hydra_ex]

I was giver a Couple of Sicles {Frost No +'s} to use with my 7th Lvl Rogue {Duel Weild} as aposed to 2 +4 Short Swords.

Warning: Math Ahead

Frost, on avg, will deal only +3.5 dmg per hit. When compared to those shortswords, thats only .5 dmg per hit better, since the ss has a +3 enhc bonus better (3.5-3=.5). Now, due to the slightly better crit of the ss, at 7th lvl, and given that you're a rogue with ~14 STR (+2), the difference the crits have is only 0.275 dmg. (The weapons have the same base damage except on a crit of a 19, in which case the ss has an advantage of gaining double the base dmg of the sickle. The ss would deal 2*(STR+Weapon dmg) while the sickle would deal only STR +Weapon dmg. Thus, the ss deals STR+weapon dmg more dmg on a 19. Since the STR is 2, and the avg dmg of a ss is 3.5, that means thers a 5.5 dmg difference. Since this only happens once every 20 hits, its 5.5/20 = 0.275 dmg per hit). Thus, the sickle only has a 0.225 dmg (0.5-0.275) per hit better.

But there is one more consideration - to-hit. The +4 ss, due to the +3 extra bonus to hit, has the potential to hit 3 more times every 20 hit, increasing your damage way beyond that of the sickle. Even if it only granted +1 better to hit, it would probably be better. At your lvl, your to-hit matters (against even low ac mobs, you'll hit on only ~5s and up) so the ss will deal more dmg. Also, the bonus to hit helps to confirm crits, so the ss will crit more often, making up for the damage. In addition, since you probably TWF, your to hit in you offhand will be low so its better to use the ss. However, if your mainhand to hit is very high, the sickle MIGHT be better, but if so, its so marginal, that you might as well go with the SS for aesthetics.

So, the SS combo is better unless your hitting on 2s with both your hands.

Unless your fighting zombies, in which case the sickles bypass the dr, and are better. Buy some light maces for use against skeletons, but against undead with no DR, the shortswords are A LOT better, since undead are immune to cold, and thus the sickles are effectively +1 sickles, and its obvious that a +1 sickle is worse than a +4 shortsword.

[Gnorbert]

The sickle is slashing and at your level you are probably fighting quite a bit of undead. Slashing just works a lot better versus undead.

Rule of thumb is to stick to slashing and blunt damage. Piercing will finds it's use when you understand it's niche better.

[hydra_ex]

The sickle is slashing and at your level you are probably fighting quite a bit of undead. Slashing just works a lot better versus undead.

Rule of thumb is to stick to slashing and blunt damage. Piercing will finds it's use when you understand it's niche better.

I'd diasgree. Peircing weapons deal the most damage for a DEX based rogue unless your fighting something with DR/slash or bldg, which are only zombies, skeletons, and liches. Stating that slashing works better versus undead is just plain wrong. Slashing works better against zombies. There are many different kinds of undead besides zombies, and most of the undead he's fighting at lvl 7 (in Delera's) are skeletons, with dr/bldg, so thus they have dr against BOTH slash and pierce. Thus, the ss is better, since it deals more dmg, and the skeletons have a high-ish AC. Also, undead are immune to frost dmg.

[Gnorbert]

I'd diasgree. Peircing weapons deal the most damage for a DEX based rogue unless your fighting something with DR/slash or bldg, which are only zombies, skeletons, and liches. Stating that slashing works better versus undead is just plain wrong. Slashing works better against zombies. There are many different kinds of undead besides zombies, and most of the undead he's fighting at lvl 7 (in Delera's) are skeletons, with dr/bldg, so thus they have dr against BOTH slash and pierce. Thus, the ss is better, since it deals more dmg, and the skeletons have a high-ish AC. Also, undead are immune to frost dmg.

Well I stand corrected. Learning some things here myself as well. I recommended to use slashing in an over generalized way thinking it can help newer players to narrow their own choices down a bit.


In truth, if yo really want to learn then you should carry a set of each damage type and experiment for yourself when you encounter new monster types. When the yellow numbers turn red or purple then you know you've hit the good weapons... but try it out for yourself.

[Ninjaofthesea]

I also look for what "quick kill" effects are available for the damage type (e.g. banishing on piercing/ranged pierce/blunt, vorpal on slash etc.) You will not really start equipping these until level 8 or so.

[hydra_ex]

I also look for what "quick kill" effects are available for the damage type (e.g. banishing on piercing/ranged pierce/blunt, vorpal on slash etc.) You will not really start equipping these until level 8 or so.

Considering he's a new player, probably not up until lvl 14. Most weapons insta-kills (banishing [pierce/blunt], Vorpals [Slash]) are ML 10. Also, rapiers are great for "crit effects" such as puncturing and enfeebling.

[Taluron]

Also, undead are immune to frost dmg.

In DnD yes, in DDO not always.

There is a LONG-standing bug (ever since original release) that allows wights (and maybe ghouls/ghasts??) to take cold damage.

If the OP was fighting wights, the frost sickles would definately have done more damage.

[hydra_ex]

In DnD yes, in DDO not always.

There is a LONG-standing bug (ever since original release) that allows wights (and maybe ghouls/ghasts??) to take cold damage.

If the OP was fighting wights, the frost sickles would definately have done more damage.

Guess I never payed attention to it. But still, the ehnc bonus make up almost all the frost dmg, and thus, it still all depends on to-hit.

[bobbryan2]

When choosing a Weapon, What do you look for exactly? I was looking at the damage of the weapon, obviously I was wrong. Like a +4 Short Sword that does 7.8 damage {Guessing} is not what to look at. Some one please educate me. I love the Game and wish to make the right choices

Well, first I look at it and see if it's a khopesh.

Then I look and see if it's greensteel.

If yes to both above, you can equip and use it.