Ungimped Monk Build?

[kuro_zero]

I{SNIP}...(and possibly apply Radiance in Mod 9?) your opponent and still get that Sneak Attack.

All reports from lamania indicate you can not apply dual shard effects to the rings (Min II, Lit II, etc), further separating the gulf between weapon melee and handwraps. In fact, you can't get even the special single shard crafting on to the rings (greater disruption for tri-positive, example). Using recipe for blast effects appears to give you the equivalent bursting (elemental burst, holy burst) to unarmed dmg BUT does not stack with the handwraps themselves (holy/burst handwraps + holy burst on ring still equals a single holy burst proc'ing per hit).

Problem to get the halfling dragonmarks you need 3 feats. The only one I see you could possibly drop is IC: Blunt and get another feat at 18. Still needs one more feat to get the third (and best) dragonmark, possibly dropping CE, using the 4 build points to bump dex to 18. All level ups in dex + halfling dex enhancements should give it respectable AC w/o it, allowing the constant use of PA to dish out more hurt.

[rimble]

All reports from lamania indicate you can not apply dual shard effects to the rings (Min II, Lit II, etc), further separating the gulf between weapon melee and handwraps. In fact, you can't get even the special single shard crafting on to the rings (greater disruption for tri-positive, example). Using recipe for blast effects appears to give you the equivalent bursting (elemental burst, holy burst) to unarmed dmg BUT does not stack with the handwraps themselves (holy/burst handwraps + holy burst on ring still equals a single holy burst proc'ing per hit).

Ugh...thanks...I guess...

Problem to get the halfling dragonmarks you need 3 feats. The only one I see you could possibly drop is IC: Blunt and get another feat at 18. Still needs one more feat to get the third (and best) dragonmark, possibly dropping CE, using the 4 build points to bump dex to 18. All level ups in dex + halfling dex enhancements should give it respectable AC w/o it, allowing the constant use of PA to dish out more hurt.

Yeah, I gotta say, I really don't like CE on Monks. Maybe if you splashed and could max Intimidate and go for some kind of tanking role, but I just don't get it on pure Monks. By taking Dodge instead (though I know here we're talking Dragonmarks, which is a good choice too) you have +1 AC always, you'll have +1 AC always from 2 higher Dex, and can add +2 AC from Defensive Fighting if you really need to at some point...one less than CE.

[kuro_zero]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - don't shoot the messenger tho

And agreed - CE on a dex/finesse build just seems redundant. Dex Rogues have been hitting nigh-untouchable AC even before monks were released.

Str based I see CE getting them closer to dex-based standing AC, since those level-ups are going to str and not dex. In that sense (since level ups going to dex, +5 at lvl 20) the AC difference (+1 from starting stats, +2 to +3 from level bumps and depending on tomes, exceptional bonuses, etc) actually favors the dex build w/o CE.

Of course said dex build could get CE but feels like overkill. Added benefit would be not having to rely on "raid buffs" or all raid buffs to see "only on 20" AC.

[WolfSpirit]

well I run in pugs often and I rarely run with s/b melees the last 3 crucible runs I did yesterday 2 of them had ranger rogue multiclass and a barb 2 lvls higher than me using a greataxe. The other had and me and a lvl 13 barb using greataxe. I out killed all of them. Yes you can try to say I just got the last shot in but when I get my guy killed before they get their first one killed I must be doing something right.

I have this experience ALL the time. Am I outkilled? Yes, certainly. But even on those occations ( less than half) I fall close second or split wtih another. Why?
Because a strong build, didn't give up that Max str no matter what. But that is not all.
ALL of the builds listed, even the best dps ones out there, only take Math into account. The one unmeasurable factor?
Humans.
We are all different.
I've set my turn rate in-game to about 275 or 300 I believe.
That, and take into account:
I can type, for example, 50+ words per minutes. I use the computer keyboard daily for work and pleasure. Many do not. Also, I've very good manual Dex.
How does this factor in?
Because I can kill, turn and engage another, and move to next encounter. I can switch, if needed, mobs quickly and easily. I can kill, spin, and kill.
So a great build is NEEDED, but it is not the only requirement.
Player skill comes into play on every encounter. How we react, our decisions, our action.
As long as you build your character well, and it doesn't have fatal flaws, you will do fine.
SO my MAX str halfling Monk with mid-40s AC will do awesome often, and does.

[twoton]

I have this experience ALL the time. Am I outkilled? Yes, certainly. But even on those occations ( less than half) I fall close second or split wtih another. Why?
Because a strong build, didn't give up that Max str no matter what. But that is not all.
ALL of the builds listed, even the best dps ones out there, only take Math into account. The one unmeasurable factor?
Humans.
We are all different.
I've set my turn rate in-game to about 275 or 300 I believe.
That, and take into account:
I can type, for example, 50+ words per minutes. I use the computer keyboard daily for work and pleasure. Many do not. Also, I've very good manual Dex.
How does this factor in?
Because I can kill, turn and engage another, and move to next encounter. I can switch, if needed, mobs quickly and easily. I can kill, spin, and kill.
So a great build is NEEDED, but it is not the only requirement.
Player skill comes into play on every encounter. How we react, our decisions, our action.
As long as you build your character well, and it doesn't have fatal flaws, you will do fine.
SO my MAX str halfling Monk with mid-40s AC will do awesome often, and does.

I have to agree with you there the human factor does hold a huge roll in getting kills in any quest. Im not a big fan a judgeing how well or bad you do in quests by kill counts but sadly thats all we have to go by.


To the OP I think you will be happier with the human str build monk. Like I said I like my lvl 16 human monk just wanted to make him slightly better. Its nice the fact that you have a list of +2 tomes to drop on him as well

[kuro_zero]

Human factor is a HUGE part of this game, which is why I love it compared to the mind-numbing point/click/wait for mob to die gameplay of 99% of the other MMOs out there.

But there comes a point where RL human skills only get you so far, and becomes more obvious at higher levels. Example I give is when I was leveling up my 4th Ranger (with a monk-splash). Joined a Madstone PUG at lvl 14 (highest, rest party 12 and 13) after speaking with the leader who needed an AC tank. Madstone normal is a walk in the park (well, more like a 17 minute zerg run :P )

Madstone Elite is not, which one of the other puggers opened the quest on. The 6th man I replaced dropped because the group was having trouble on NORMAL. So we go in, looking around going ummmm... "Lets give it a shot, what's the worst that can happen..."

We complete, despite the weird multiclass wizard doing nothing (jumping into melee, going AFK), the sorcerer running out of lvl 3 and 4 spell components, the cleric running out of heal scrolls and not supplied or prepared for an elite run, and the rogue dying every ogre smash or minotaur charge. The other dragon-marked halfling, dex-based ranger hadn't the gear or AC to take down the mobs before eventually being smashed himself.

Regardless, we complete and get a very nice chunk of XP, but my point was I could not have pulled that group through with any of my prior rangers. Only my ability to utilize an exceptional build (and the cleric's timely heals and the halfling's dragonmarks, rezzing the other party members who were dropping WAY too fast get a heal to)

But you learn a lot more from gimp'd builds than uber ones. Its how I learned.

[NiteSlayer98]

Only way I can see to fit in enough feats for dragonmarks is to go a halfling strength build but even then with every skill up going into strength it would end up with wisdom, dex, and strength all being the same. 26 with a +2 tome and +6 stat item. Would that give me enough +hit to keep power attack up? No room for both weapon finesse and improved crit with a dex based dragonmonk halfling, strength build would not get last mark until 18

[LeCutter]

I suppose most people don't know how to pla monks by the sound of it. In our guild we have several and our dorf monk Skyfe is a goddamned one-man slaughterhouse. He puts the halfings monk and the barbs to shame. Anyone who says monks can't DPS or bring anything to the table hasn't grouped with any good monks. The only downside of monks as far as I can tell si they're mana sponges.

[GlassCannon]

I suppose most people don't know how to pla monks by the sound of it. In our guild we have several and our dorf monk Skyfe is a goddamned one-man slaughterhouse. He puts the halfings monk and the barbs to shame. Anyone who says monks can't DPS or bring anything to the table hasn't grouped with any good monks. The only downside of monks as far as I can tell si they're mana sponges.

The trouble is that most Monks refuse to take advantage of something often overlooked: Heal Amp..

Any class can DPS. Few classes can say they get over 2,250 on an Unyielding Sovereignty. A Silver Flame Lesser Healing pot gives my Monk a good chunk of his HP back, instead of a mere 100.

Try the STR Based Human Cleric-friendly Punchy of Mabargonessen.

DPS is top-notch sustainable without breaking the class balance, and he is very very hard to kill.

[bobbryan2]

The trouble is that most Monks refuse to take advantage of something often overlooked: Heal Amp..

Any class can DPS. Few classes can say they get over 2,250 on an Unyielding Sovereignty. A Silver Flame Lesser Healing pot gives my Monk a good chunk of his HP back, instead of a mere 100.

Try the STR Based Human Cleric-friendly Punchy of Mabargonessen.

DPS is top-notch sustainable without breaking the class balance, and he is very very hard to kill.

What use is being healed more if you're taking less damage in the first place?

[BlackRage]

Any class can DPS. Few classes can say they get over 2,250 on an Unyielding Sovereignty. A Silver Flame Lesser Healing pot gives my Monk a good chunk of his HP back, instead of a mere 100.

Not every class can DPS...

If you are getting that much healing you are wsating AP - you have nowhere near enough HP to justify it.

[twoton]

it makes it worth takeing the healing amp because getting 50 hp back off a wand whip from a cleric or pally is alot better than just 25. My human monk gets 23 hp per tick on his wholeness of body feat. One shot from a cleric casting mass cure serious and your good compared to the rest of the party

I had a guildie that runs the shroudwith his cleric way to much LOL and he said the best party he had in the shroud is one with 5 monks in it. With improved evasion and all them using fist of light it made his job so easy he almost got bored LOL.

[winsom]

I started making a Human STR-build monk, but then realized that Stunning Fist is one of the only useful things playing a monk gives you compared to other melee classes. Need a lot of Wisdom for Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm which means putting your 4-level-increases there.

So how can I make a monk that deals reasonable damage and has a good stunning fist?:

Halfling DEX & WIS build with Power Attack and halfling sneak attack.

It's sad that is all I could come up with. I still have my Human monk 19/Rogue 1 STR/WIS-damage build, but it doesn't compare well. UMD was fun with that character though, now a bank mule.

Edit: the problem with DDO is that the Ranger is too good, and maybe the barbarian, paladin and fighter will be so much better next module that there is even less reason to play a monk.

Monks gets Improved Evasion and some other nifty things but a Rogue gets that too and is better in other ways. Monk gets DR 10 (?)/epic at level 20, which is a heck of a long time to wait, but then other classes can get DR 5/- if they use a rare trinket, which is close enough in DDO. The other monk perks just aren't attractive enough in DDO (they are in D&D) and most of them can be duplicated by the super magic items that every other class has access to.

So I'll play a monk to stun/slay with unarmed attacks because what else is there that is truly good in the class that isnt duplicated? Its pretty much a play-for-fun class that is at the mercy of people letting you into PUGs at high level and not everyone is so kind when he has other PUG choices asking to join.

[GlassCannon]

Not every class can DPS...

If you are getting that much healing you are wsating AP - you have nowhere near enough HP to justify it.

I'll sigh and facepalm watching you back out to chug CSW pots for 10-25 points while I am frontlining combat and popping them every now and then for 50-72 or so to offset the monsters that actually manage to land a hitbox swing on my character. It's not about standing in place and watching bars move, it's about actually participating in combat and riding the razor's edge. If you want to watch bars move, you are welcome to play WoW... or become a nuclear scientist.

As for the HP, it gets upwards of 400 normally(GFL on DT robe, 30% Heal Amp on DT robe, Shroud tier 3 HP item), and exceeds that with Rage. I'd keep that comment moot in most cases due to this. Additionally, if a build is made for high STR, despite it being 'gimped', it can be geared out to DPS. Example: Ftr1/Sorc, FvS, Ftr1/Clr, Monk, Rog, Ftr, Barb, Bbn1/Bard...


As for you min/maxers reading this that are ego-reliant on your DDO characters, do not make a Monk. They are "Fun to play", not "Uber". I'll enjoy mine as he is, despite your rhetoric.

[bobbryan2]

I'll sigh and facepalm watching you back out to chug CSW pots for 10-25 points while I am frontlining combat and popping them every now and then for 50-72 or so to offset the monsters that actually manage to land a hitbox swing on my character. It's not about standing in place and watching bars move, it's about actually participating in combat and riding the razor's edge. If you want to watch bars move, you are welcome to play WoW... or become a nuclear scientist.

As for the HP, it gets upwards of 400 normally(GFL on DT robe, 30% Heal Amp on DT robe, Shroud tier 3 HP item), and exceeds that with Rage. I'd keep that comment moot in most cases due to this. Additionally, if a build is made for high STR, despite it being 'gimped', it can be geared out to DPS. Example: Ftr1/Sorc, FvS, Ftr1/Clr, Monk, Rog, Ftr, Barb, Bbn1/Bard...


As for you min/maxers reading this that are ego-reliant on your DDO characters, do not make a Monk. They are "Fun to play", not "Uber". I'll enjoy mine as he is, despite your rhetoric.

For all those people that think monks are "fun to play, but not uber"... all I will say is... imagine how much more fun to play they would be if they were balanced better.

[BlackRage]

it makes it worth takeing the healing amp because getting 50 hp back off a wand whip from a cleric or pally is alot better than just 25. My human monk gets 23 hp per tick on his wholeness of body feat. One shot from a cleric casting mass cure serious and your good compared to the rest of the party

50hp is not going to keep you alive and Mass Healing is done off the lowest person not the highest

I'll sigh and facepalm watching you back out to chug CSW pots for 10-25 points while I am frontlining combat and popping them every now and then for 50-72 or so to offset the monsters that actually manage to land a hitbox swing on my character. It's not about standing in place and watching bars move, it's about actually participating in combat and riding the razor's edge.

People do not have to wonder if Monks are gimpy, they can just read your posts (and I imagine watch you play). You will not be in frontline combat drinking Pots.

As for the HP, it gets upwards of 400 normally(GFL on DT robe, 30% Heal Amp on DT robe, Shroud tier 3 HP item), and exceeds that with Rage. I'd keep that comment moot in most cases due to this. Additionally, if a build is made for high STR, despite it being 'gimped', it can be geared out to DPS. Example: Ftr1/Sorc, FvS, Ftr1/Clr, Monk, Rog, Ftr, Barb, Bbn1/Bard...

You really need to figure out what DPS means... and even at your lowly '400hp' you are WAY over healing amped. +2,250hp (sic) is just wasted.

As for you min/maxers reading this that are ego-reliant on your DDO characters, do not make a Monk. They are "Fun to play", not "Uber". I'll enjoy mine as he is, despite your rhetoric.

Fun to play but not Uber = gimp. Period. Why would you get selected when another class/build can do everything you do and do it better?

[JustBenHere]

Seems like a big waste of enhancements points, I can see taking improved recovery 1 in each monk and human. Anything more then that seems like a waste, unless you have 2k+ hps.

[rimble]

it's about actually participating in combat and riding the razor's edge.

I prefer to gleam the cube.

[Mobeius]

Ummmm


Healing Amp is WAY under rated.

My jungle cloaks pop for 7 per tick now, my healing curse heals 1 or 3 per strike, my wholeness of body pops for 28, etc... thats with 50% healing amp. Going to experment with healing amp some more as well see if I can get healing curse to heal for 2 to 3 per hit with 60%.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Ummmm


Healing Amp is WAY under rated.

My jungle cloaks pop for 7 per tick now, my healing curse heals 1 or 3 per strike, my wholeness of body pops for 28, etc... thats with 50% healing amp. Going to experment with healing amp some more as well see if I can get healing curse to heal for 2 to 3 per hit with 60%.

I have DT tempest 20% amp, 30% monk and 30% human = 1.2*1.3*1.3 = 2.028 so just over double healing amp, and I get 2 or 4 from my curse of healing. And I agree, it's very nice Highly recommended if you can spare the APs.

Garth