Ungimped Monk Build?

[BlackRage]

Ok gentlemen after looking over a few of the builds this is what I came up with, let me know how it looks! This gives me access to every master stance other then stone unless I get a +4 tome when the mod comes out. Reason I was hoping to have em all at master capacity was incase they ever fix fire stance.

Generally not good to spread your level ups out like that. Also, your STR and DEX are close enough to make Wpn Finesse a bit of a waste.

Drop STR to 12 and put those points into DEX for tohit or WIS for DC. Put your level ups into the same stat...

[jmonty]

Ok gentlemen after looking over a few of the builds this is what I came up with, let me know how it looks! This gives me access to every master stance other then stone unless I get a +4 tome when the mod comes out. Reason I was hoping to have em all at master capacity was incase they ever fix fire stance.

i like CE over dodge because if you decide you want more ac you can just change stances.

[rimble]

i like CE over dodge because if you decide you want more ac you can just change stances.

It depends how you do it. If you take points away from Dex or Wis, giving up a point of AC, to get your Int high enough for CE, you're not much better off.

Defensive Stance + Dodge + 2 Higher Dex/Wis = 4 AC
CE = 5 AC

Taking CE is often not as big of a difference as people think. In this example, it'd just get you 1 AC (and an additional -1 ToHit). Of course taking both CE and Dodge would be 2 AC better.

NiteSlayer98, it might be better to put your level ups into Strength and not worry about Weapon Finesse, but what you have planned there isn't horrible either. I think all us Monks will be hoping for some +4 Tomes to round out some stats for those Tier IV stances--except those **** Dwarves and their inconsequential -2 Charisma. *grumble* I don't know, maybe scatter 1 into Con and 1 into Wis and then you only need +3 Tomes for those? I dunno, obviously you can see my build didn't account for that--it's probably not a great idea.

[kodiak974]

You will need to max or very clsoe to max either dex or str at creation or level up to be able to hit things on a regular basis. Also if you plan on using special moves like quivering palm then you should go with max dex and wis because you will want high dc's or its a waste. You just dont have enough points to raise str as well for those special moves. So think either dps or special moves.

[NiteSlayer98]

Ok lets try this again. Ive read and reread everything you guys have posted and decided on this. High wisdom all abilities raises there. A decent dex, way of the hound 3 and halfling cunning/guile for the extra dmg and +hit since dex isnt super high. Not exactly sure how this will hold up to raid but I know it will not be a great solo monk build, but who wants to solo anyways?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(16 Monk) 
Hit Points: 234
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 16
Will: 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             12                    14
Dexterity            16                    20
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom               16                    24
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               8                    24
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         7                    22
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  4                     7
Hide                  4                     7
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  5                    23
Listen                4                    12
Move Silently         4                     7
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                2                     2
Spot                  8                    26
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble                5                    20
Use Magic Device      1                     8.5

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound II
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound III
Enhancement: Fists of Iron
Enhancement: The Receptive Earth
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Rise of the Phoenix
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Master of Sea
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II

[NiteSlayer98]

Was thinking of dropping power attack for stunning blow but not sure thats a good idea since it would gimped my dps even more. And the +hit enhancements make up for the -hit from power attack. If power attack doesnt work out I can always swap to stunning blow.

[twoton]

dont gimp out what dps monks do have make a str build windstance monk and thank me later

[NiteSlayer98]

Just not sure, my first thought was strength wind stance warforged for power attack enhancements but warforged and monk seems kind of pointless since they have a lot of overlapping immunities.

[twoton]

overlap yes but with immune to neg lvls and being held make it worth it. I capped a human str based windstance monk and like him but I am working on a WF str based windstance monk. I like him even more.

starting stats with my WF str wind monk was:

str 16
dex 16
con 12
int 8
wis 14
cha 8

tomes needed:
+2 str tome
+1 dex tome
+1 wis tome

feats: (not in order)
toughness
dodge
mobility
spring attack
twf
imp twf
gtr twf
imp crit
Power attack

even with that low of a starting con you will still end up with 350 hp. (throw in a +2 con tome for flavor if you want but its not really needed)

without raid gear or +3 tomes just basic high lvl gear you should end up with 45 ac unbuffed

your QP should land fairly often on gnoll casters and the like. just dont expect it to land on heavy hitting melee mobs.

With this kind of build I rarely find the need to use ki strikes to keep my dps up to par with other melees.

One thing I have learned is dont bother taking PA till at least 6th lvl and dont start taking your WF PA enhancments till 10th lvl. Then only take them every 2 lvls after the first so you dont drop your to hit to much to soon.

[NiteSlayer98]

I take it you took spring attack since with WF power attack enhancements your +hit drops to much while moving.

[BlackRage]

I know it will not be a great solo monk build, but who wants to solo anyways?

Accepting that you go Light side for your Path feat, then you will solo quite fine infact.


This can be safely discounted

dont gimp out what dps monks do have make a str build windstance monk and thank me later

starting stats with my WF str wind monk was:
str 16
dex 16
con 12
int 8
wis 14
cha 8

This would be better with 16CON and 12WIS

And this is why you can ignore his advice:

With this kind of build I rarely find the need to use ki strikes to keep my dps up to par with other melees.

[jmonty]

It depends how you do it. If you take points away from Dex or Wis, giving up a point of AC, to get your Int high enough for CE, you're not much better off.

Defensive Stance + Dodge + 2 Higher Dex/Wis = 4 AC
CE = 5 AC

Taking CE is often not as big of a difference as people think. In this example, it'd just get you 1 AC (and an additional -1 ToHit). Of course taking both CE and Dodge would be 2 AC better.

ya i agree ce is overrated sometimes but i figured i'd start with 12 int anyways for the skill points.

[twoton]

well I find I dont really need a starting 16 con on a monk since my monks starting at 12 end up with mid 300 hp. How much hp do you need on your monks to stay alive? If Blackrage if you would take my build and try it out with out question you might find that you dont need ki strikes either.

[BlackRage]

Blackrage if you would take my build and try it out with out question you might find that you dont need ki strikes either.

I have tried Monks, including one of 'yours' with the stats I suggested - but the Math and my experience shows you to be wrong.

You cannot argue both that you must be STR for DPS and then believe you do not need Ki strikes.

dont gimp out what dps monks do have make a str build windstance monk and thank me later

With this kind of build I rarely find the need to use ki strikes to keep my dps up to par with other melees.

Ki strikes do not add huge DPS, but they can easily equal STR increases. Further, either you run with some of the worst DPS melees EVER (S&B Intimitanks, Borr perhaps?) or you are flat out wrong. The math says you are wrong, but I grant that maybe your party is made up of people role-playing GIMP*.

Finally, 45AC is utter garbage. A Trog will whiff on more than a 1 yes, but nothing else will. And at that level of AC you are going to need more than 300hp just like every other low AC melee.

WF make fine Monks for sure, but Halfling is equally good – and probably better for what he wants.


* As a plug for the Get In Multiclass Project it is good for a laugh and does pass the time.

[twoton]

well I run in pugs often and I rarely run with s/b melees the last 3 crucible runs I did yesterday 2 of them had ranger rogue multiclass and a barb 2 lvls higher than me using a greataxe. The other had and me and a lvl 13 barb using greataxe. I out killed all of them. Yes you can try to say I just got the last shot in but when I get my guy killed before they get their first one killed I must be doing something right.

The other one only had me as the tank. Now granted comparing a lvl 13 barb using a greataxe to a lvl 11 str based windstance monk isnt fair but thats who I was running with.

I have only had to run with one dungeon crawling pug thank god but geez lead the kill count by 40 to the next closest person. Yes I stayed with the group.

Your right though 45 ac is not all that great but considering that is without a DT docent or raid tomes or chatter ring.

About the hit points I added it all up and I come up with 348.

Now granted when I say I dont use ki strikes this is true but also misleading. I dont use ki strikes while I lvl my monk but I do at 16 keep tier 3 lightening strike on my hot for the that little more dps for big tuff bad guys.

I dont like saying what my builds ac can be with all the raid gear in the game and stuff because some people dont have time to farm for all of it.

I do find I dont get hit all the time in vale quests with a ac of around 48 (barkskin pot).
Im not trying to start a fight with ya but I was just tryin to tell the OP that if they didnt want to reroll they probably want to make that build.

The two reasons I made new monks was I made and capped a dex based windstance monk and didnt like his low dps. Then I made a human str based monk with windstance and didnt like being held on a 1 or neg lvled. So I ended up making it WF. Thats all Im trying to tell the OP.

Are halfling monks good Im sure there are some. Are there good elf and human monks yes there are. I just think WF make the best monks mostly because they are like WF pallys they almost cant be stopped :P

[NiteSlayer98]

Like to thank everyone for all their advice. Just one last questions. I have narrowed it down to these two builds for my lil monk girl.

Halfling Dex Based

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(16 Monk) 
Hit Points: 234
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 18
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             12                    14
Dexterity            16                    24
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom               16                    20
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               8                    26
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         7                    22
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  4                     5
Hide                  4                     9
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  5                    23
Listen                4                    10
Move Silently         4                     9
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                2                     2
Spot                  8                    24
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble                5                    22
Use Magic Device      1                     8.5

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound II
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound III
Enhancement: Fists of Iron
Enhancement: The Receptive Earth
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Rise of the Phoenix
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Master of Sea
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II

Human Strength Based

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Human Female
(16 Monk) 
Hit Points: 234
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 14
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               14                    20
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               8                    23
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         7                    22
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  3                     5
Hide                  4                     4
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  8                    26
Listen                3                     5
Move Silently         4                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                  6                    24
Swim                  4                    21
Tumble                5                     5
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Way of the Elegant Crane I
Enhancement: Way of the Elegant Crane II
Enhancement: The Receptive Earth
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Eagle Claw Attack
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Rise of the Phoenix
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III

[kuro_zero]

Personally I like the Human STR version, but if you're going to eat a full set of +2 Tomes for this build, you could drop Str down to 14 and pump Int to 12 + 2 Tome = 14 enough for combat expertise.

Alternatively, drop Str and Dex to 15 each to bump the Int up, Human adaptability can cover your stats to even numbers until you start getting tomes and exceptional bonuses (Mod-9 rings and DT armor)

[BlackRage]

Halfling Dex Based

More damage, better AC and increased flexibility. Consider the Halfling Dragonmarks though - all the healing you will ever need:
Stunning Fist
iCrit
lvl18

[NiteSlayer98]

Isnt str based more dps? You get full str dmg from it on both attacks correct?

[rimble]

Isnt str based more dps? You get full str dmg from it on both attacks correct?

It's more the Hafling that I think he's referring to there, not the Dex or Str based...that +8 Sneak Attack damage (and however much +ToHit) is just about the best thing out there. You'll rarely pull aggro, so you'll often get it, and even if you do have aggro you can Stun/Unbalance (and possibly apply Radiance in Mod 9?) your opponent and still get that Sneak Attack.