Reality Check

[GreenGurgler]

There's that word again, the burden of proof lies on you, Mr. Prosecutor.

You are correct, I made a leap in stating they PROMISED us the Mod on any date prior to August 1st but they have said again and again they are shooting for, targeting, hope to release by, etc... To the letter of the law, they never did PROMISE.

This is a technicality though.

So, lets go a different direction.. when was the LAST update that Turbine released? When was the first target they stated that they were expecting to get Mod 9 out at?

The last update was almost a year ago in the fall of 2008 and they have been hinting since then that Mod 9 would be out by December 2008, er January, er I mean February, er Just in time for the Anniversary...er.. I mean shortly after the anniver...oh, no.. OK.. sometime soon, like this summer... August, oh wait, no September....

See what I mean?

This back and forth between you and I and others is pointless and misdirected. I am frustrated and aggravated at Turbine, not the player base.

You it would appear are far less so than myself and I feel safe in saying a large portion the the player base.

Our levels of satisfaction with Turbine cannot be debated as everyone has a different opinion and threshold for shifting release dates. Many here who are not unhappy about this state that they are fine with the most recent delay because they are not bored, they want this released bug free and Turbine can take all the time it wants, they see an opportunity to farm xp in GH or get items that are slated to change in Mod9, still have lots to see and do in the game, etc...

And you know what, no one can dispute that as that is an individual opinion. Those peoples take on it is valid for them and not debatable.

But, one cannot seriously try and argue that the delay in release from August to September is the first true delay in Mod 9 and wonder what the big deal is. Mod 9 by all accounts (Turbines own stated plans, intent, etc) have always spoken of quick release time lines and they HAVE teased ever since the last Mod that the next Mod was coming soon. Soon under no definition is 9 months from the last mod when no other mod has ever gone over 6 months and most average 3 months. You can state that they have never given us a firm date prior to August 4th but you cannot in real honesty say that hey have not hinted at a sooner release than this, that is dishonest.

This is simply not a 1 month delay. It is much more than that.

Would you say that Turbine over the last 12 months has NEVER teased with a time line about Mod 9? Kate never said "we are aiming for December 2008"? No Turbine rep ever said that they were shooting for a Anniversary time line? No Turbine rep ever said shortly after the anniversary?

If you answered No, they never said these things than you have not been following the forums for the past 12 months. They HAVE pumped this up, they have given us reason to believe it would be out a long time ago.

[Samadhi]

When was the last time a mod was released on time?

I rest my case.

Drama queens, please go away now.

So just because they have a history of sucking, we are supposed to not hold it against them to continue to suck? Hey, it's okay if they ruin this game and lose all of their steady playerbase. They have, afterall, been working on driving these people away for a good two years now...

[Ulurjah]

This mod has been delayed so long at least two the Devs have found the time to reproduce within the span of the delay. That's impressive.

Haha, if you weren't opped out of the rep system, that would be +1 rep for you.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Don't worry, not going to law school, I have no interest in chasing ambulances.

In fact, I'm in school for mechanical engineering, which you should not attend because they require a good bit of math.

Let's do the not so complicated computation shall we?

Turbine said, "new mod on August 1st."

now

Turbine says, "new mod on September 1st."

A little more background information for the chronologically impaired:

August is the 8th month.

September is the 9th month.

9 - 8 = 1

That would be one month later than initially scheduled, not nine months.

This mod was originally scheduled for fall 2008, then late 2008, then the 2009 aniversary (feb), then August. It's almost a year late....

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

There's that word again, the burden of proof lies on you, Mr. Prosecutor.

If you only count delays as real delays if they've occurred after a "promise" of a specific release date, then this is the first time a Mod has been delayed, is it not?

That, of course, is assuming my memory hasn't faded too much.

[Seosamh]

It is very kind of you to give a live target for players to unleash anger on. I am sure it will help.

I have never understood why they tied Mod 9 in with f2p. The folks at Turbine have never understood the player base. It showed with the server merge. Power gamers are oil and casual players are water, mixing the two will not give you salad dressing, just a mess.

They should have kicked the level cap up before f2p, that would remove the risk of mixing new players with vets who hate to play with new players. Mod 10 would have been a better one to tie in f2p.

Not into Drama, but I am the Queen of my family, just ask my husband or kids. Not going away yet, but I am closer to the door. That is sad, not dramatic.

Or is it I who is unleashing my anger on the players who insist on whining and threatening to leave (as they always do) only to be there when the mod goes live having all but forgotten about their empty threats.

[Seosamh]

If you only count delays as real delays if they've occurred after a "promise" of a specific release date, then this is the first time a Mod has been delayed, is it not?

That, of course, is assuming my memory hasn't faded too much.

That is how I'm counting them, and no this is not the first time. In fact, I can not remember a single mod where they didn't tell us a date and then change it.

[Seosamh]

This mod was originally scheduled for fall 2008, then late 2008, then the 2009 aniversary (feb), then August. It's almost a year late....

By "scheduled," you mean the conjecture, or allusions about a sooner release date?

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

That is how I'm counting them, and no this is not the first time. In fact, I can not remember a single mod where they didn't tell us a date and then change it.

If you can provide an example (quote) I will happily rescind my statement.

[Seosamh]

So just because they have a history of sucking, we are supposed to not hold it against them to continue to suck? Hey, it's okay if they ruin this game and lose all of their steady playerbase. They have, afterall, been working on driving these people away for a good two years now...

No, you can still hold it against them if you want, but don't pretend like we didn't see this coming.

[Hafeal]

Despite some small amount of disappointment (since they were moving the date up from the original speculation of September), I agree.

When was the last time a mod was released on time?

I rest my case.

Drama queens, please go away now.

[Hafeal]

Haha, if you weren't opped out of the rep system, that would be +1 rep for you.

You know you can still give rep anyway, right?

[CSFurious]

the mod delay is much longer than one month

you may know math, but your logic/deductive reasoning is on par with Turbine's timeliness

Don't worry, not going to law school, I have no interest in chasing ambulances.

In fact, I'm in school for mechanical engineering, which you should not attend because they require a good bit of math.

Let's do the not so complicated computation shall we?

Turbine said, "new mod on August 1st."

now

Turbine says, "new mod on September 1st."

A little more background information for the chronologically impaired:

August is the 8th month.

September is the 9th month.

9 - 8 = 1

That would be one month later than initially scheduled, not nine months.

[Seosamh]

You are correct, I made a leap in stating they PROMISED us the Mod on any date prior to August 1st but they have said again and again they are shooting for, targeting, hope to release by, etc... To the letter of the law, they never did PROMISE.

Thank You.

This is a technicality though.

So, lets go a different direction.. when was the LAST update that Turbine released? When was the first target they stated that they were expecting to get Mod 9 out at?

The last update was almost a year ago in the fall of 2008 and they have been hinting since then that Mod 9 would be out by December 2008, er January, er I mean February, er Just in time for the Anniversary...er.. I mean shortly after the anniver...oh, no.. OK.. sometime soon, like this summer... August, oh wait, no September....

See what I mean?

I do see what you mean, but I have a question for you. When was the last time the level cap went up by 4 levels in one mod? (Implies it would take longer than a 2 lvl increase.)

This back and forth between you and I and others is pointless and misdirected. I am frustrated and aggravated at Turbine, not the player base.

You it would appear are far less so than myself and I feel safe in saying a large portion the the player base.

Our levels of satisfaction with Turbine cannot be debated as everyone has a different opinion and threshold for shifting release dates. Many here who are not unhappy about this state that they are fine with the most recent delay because they are not bored, they want this released bug free and Turbine can take all the time it wants, they see an opportunity to farm xp in GH or get items that are slated to change in Mod9, still have lots to see and do in the game, etc...

And you know what, no one can dispute that as that is an individual opinion. Those peoples take on it is valid for them and not debatable.

But, one cannot seriously try and argue that the delay in release from August to September is the first true delay in Mod 9 and wonder what the big deal is. Mod 9 by all accounts (Turbines own stated plans, intent, etc) have always spoken of quick release time lines and they HAVE teased ever since the last Mod that the next Mod was coming soon. Soon under no definition is 9 months from the last mod when no other mod has ever gone over 6 months and most average 3 months. You can state that they have never given us a firm date prior to August 4th but you cannot in real honesty say that hey have not hinted at a sooner release than this, that is dishonest.

This is simply not a 1 month delay. It is much more than that.

Would you say that Turbine over the last 12 months has NEVER teased with a time line about Mod 9? Kate never said "we are aiming for December 2008"? No Turbine rep ever said that they were shooting for a Anniversary time line? No Turbine rep ever said shortly after the anniversary?

If you answered No, they never said these things than you have not been following the forums for the past 12 months. They HAVE pumped this up, they have given us reason to believe it would be out a long time ago.

I agree, however you came into my thread and insulted my ability to reason, and thus provoked my ire.

[Ulurjah]

You know you can still give rep anyway, right?

Yep... but as I understand it I only have so much I can give out over a specific period of time, so why give it to someone who has opted out of the system?

[Seosamh]

the mod delay is much longer than one month

you may know math, but your logic/deductive reasoning is on par with Turbine's timeliness

Do you have anything else to say, other than the weak insult of "get a clue."

Or are you just saying that you're gullible enough to believe that when Turbine says, we hope, or we expect, or we're shooting for something that it is actually going to happen?

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

I do see what you mean, but I have a question for you. When was the last time the level cap went up by 4 levels in one mod? (Implies it would take longer than a 2 lvl increase.)

Although it probably isn't relevant, one of the major reasons that the devs decided to do levels 16-20 all at once was that it would not be much (if any) more difficult than the usual 2 level increase. The reason for this was that levels 19 and 20 would not require additional spells to be created. Other than adding new graphics and designing new mechanics for spells, increasing the level cap requires very little other than changing some numbers. So if it would take longer, it certainly wouldn't take much longer.

[bobbryan2]

Or is it I who is unleashing my anger on the players who insist on whining and threatening to leave (as they always do) only to be there when the mod goes live having all but forgotten about their empty threats.

I hate people threatening to leave as well. It annoys me greatly... because most people that are mad enough to leave don't drop a line to tell everyone about it.

But don't pretend for a moment that what you're doing is any more constructive or less annoying... Not only are they annoying as stand-alones... but you're actually baiting and exacerbating the situation to make the first group even more annoying than they were before.

But hey... maybe that's your goal. To continuously pick at people who are mad (with a legitimate complaint).

[Seosamh]

If you can provide an example (quote) I will happily rescind my statement.

I don't feel that's necessary, primarily because I'm too lazy to search back and find it, secondly because I don't care if you rescind a statement that you followed with:

That, of course, is assuming my memory hasn't faded too much.

[cdemeritt]

There's that word again, the burden of proof lies on you, Mr. Prosecutor.

Sorry No... This is the court of public opinion... Not bound by the Burden of Proof thing... We Feel Slighted by the constant inferences for months and the constant "soon"s..... Not court Provable, but just as damaging..... Look at OJ- found innocent but would you hire him to baby sit your kids?