Mod 9/DDO:U proves Dev hate for monks

[Drfirewater79]

OK first no monk special attacks while dual weilding kamas ala PnP 3.5e rules

then no greensteel handwraps

then lame excuse for no greensteel handwraps

then promise of transmuting handwraps

then no transmuting handwraps

Then nerf transmuting for anyone that doesnt have Min tier III and still no greensteel handwraps.

Just when you thought OK they gonna fix things in mod 9 cause they promised a ring for monks to use greensteel properties while using handwraps...... but they nerf us again

the new rings cant craft tier three effects onto them so monks still get no Lightning tier III or min Tier III or any of the other shroud advantages that every other race gets unless they want to use kamas where they get major disadvantages (lower dps lower crit range unless they take slashing instead of bludgeon for crit).

Please someone from the Turbine Dev team explain how this fixes the problem with monks DPS?

Oh and now the only advantage a monk had (High Ac) is nerfted cause of grazing hits while yes they dont hit often now that they changed the DC (if you will) for it.

...................

All i want is a couple answers as to how you are gonna make it up to Monks?

1) will we beable to poperly use kamas with our flurry attacks?

2) will we be getting some other ring i don't know about that is a greensteel weapon type? and do you realize that we already have no advantage taking more ring slot needs away from us (where do i put my chattering ring now that another raid item is forcing that slot ... do i take off my con ring?)

3) will you be making Greensteel handwraps after all ... just because current handwraps cant be coded doesnt mean you cant make greensteel handwraps it just means you have to code them differently then you do regular handwraps. If current handwraps are coded to be like an item that gets its properties from the weapon lists for random loot tables which then get added to our hit with fists dice then why cant you just make Monkwraps (notice the different name) and code them to be weapons base them on there level for damage type (so if a monk at lvl 16 gets ____ damage dice then increase that once over and make it static rather then progressive like monk damage per level is suppost to be.) so that we can get the tier III shroud advantage like everyone else.

These are major issues not minor they need to be fixed ..... as is the hate for monks is great because of the lack of these gamebreaking disadvantages you have placed on monks.

please tell me how you plan to fix them and a timeline.

[Mobeius]

It would be nice to have SOME kind of direct answer or statement about monks that was pretty solid in information.

[Aerendil]

It would be nice to have SOME kind of direct answer or statement about monks that was pretty solid in information.

It would, yes.

This thread, however, isn't going to get the kind of direct answer the OP wants. There are ways to go about asking certain questions.
Citing "dev hatred" and whinging for half a page isn't one of them.

[RobbinB]

I have no idea how grazing hits will work, but I'm hoping the amount of damage won't be far in excess of the dr 10 monks get at lvl 20. In other words, I'm hoping the grazing hit change is much more punishing to monk splashes than pure monks (especially since the current capstone is kinda lame).

[Whargoul]

The easiest way I could see reconciling handwraps is to break away from PnP a bit. Call it a handwrap, it equips to one hand.

For sake of argument lets say a handwrap does 1d6 damage (1d8 if Greensteel) for any character. If you have 2 of them, you can equip one handwrap on each hand and dual wield (along with standard off-hand str penalties, remember we don't want too much extra coding). Monks could get +1 damage every even monk level when centered. This could apply to any monk weapon when centered (to keep it extra simple), or just with handwraps if you want to get fancy with your coding.

It throws off the damage curve a little bit. A little extra damage on average per hit, but less max damage (level 20 would be 1d6+10 instead of 2d10). With dual wielding str penalties on the off-hand, the average damage may balance out.

[Drfirewater79]

I have no idea how grazing hits will work, but I'm hoping the amount of damage won't be far in excess of the dr 10 monks get at lvl 20. In other words, I'm hoping the grazing hit change is much more punishing to monk splashes than pure monks (especially since the current capstone is kinda lame).

yeah i think the pure will help a bit but its not gonna help against purple named mobs where ac really saves your ass .... the dr is 10/epic so any mob over lvl 20 (considered epic) will not be effected by that at all they just cut right through it.

so pretty much anything on elite whcih is when the GH system effects us the most.

as far as my OP title statement

it is the truth .. its been proven time and time again

if they dont reply then it proves my statement true

............

I am thinking they prolly dont care how bad they screw monks over cause we can always buy a respec from the store and change to tempest III ranger with two levels on monk .... cause that is right now far better then straight monk for both ac and dps and they arent gimped by lack of greensteel.

My bet is either Dev's dont play the game at all or they dont play much .... i bet all of them have a tempest ranger and almost none have monks ...

tolero and tarant know i love em i really do but these are the questions that people really want answers to .... They dont have to answer me in this post ... (haven't seen a dev reply to a positive post in months let alone one that calls them out)

but they do need to come up with answers and give them to the public cause this is getting out of hand now

the direct hate for monk class is more and more coming out in the game and then they want people to pay for them ? how messed up is that?

to charge f2p for a broken class is really sad .... hope they change monks soon to make up for the hate they have generated.

I am just sick of being told how I am not as good as a) or b) class when monks should be out dps'ing palidans hands down .... they should be near shadowing Fighters for DPS if not beating them and only real compition should be barbarians when fully raged

[Drfirewater79]

The easiest way I could see reconciling handwraps is to break away from PnP a bit. Call it a handwrap, it equips to one hand.

For sake of argument lets say a handwrap does 1d6 damage (1d8 if Greensteel) for any character. If you have 2 of them, you can equip one handwrap on each hand and dual wield (along with standard off-hand str penalties, remember we don't want too much extra coding). Monks could get +1 damage every even monk level when centered. This could apply to any monk weapon when centered (to keep it extra simple), or just with handwraps if you want to get fancy with your coding.

It throws off the damage curve a little bit. A little extra damage on average per hit, but less max damage (level 20 would be 1d6+10 instead of 2d10). With dual wielding str penalties on the off-hand, the average damage may balance out.

still doesnt make up for 600 points of electric damage or 300 points of fire damage or any of the other shroud item advantages ...

they only way they could fix that is to eleminate shroud crafting and that would be stupid ..... so really its easy just make a completely different coded handwrap for greensteel. Doesnt mean you have to recode all handwraps just the greensteel ones.

[Aerendil]

I am just sick of being told how I am not as good as a) or b) class when monks should be out dps'ing palidans hands down .... they should be near shadowing Fighters for DPS if not beating them and only real compition should be barbarians when fully raged

While you might have had something with the lack of greensteel (which is horribly broken anyways and should have NEVER made it into DDO, to be honest), this quote is just pure nonsense. Come on, man. Of course Paladins, Fighters and Barbs out-dps us - that's all they can do.

Can a 20 Paladin, 20 Fighter, and 20 Barbarian stand in the radius of 2 or 3 meteor swarms, and survive? Or fall 100 feet and survive? or outrun any monster ingame? Or raise dead? or... (the list goes on).
As I said in the other thread, we trade some dps for survivability. It's how Monks have been designed for DDO.

It's different from PnP, and I might not agree with their implementation, but that's a moot point now.
If you want more dps, please get behind my ideas in the Monk Ideas thread which offer us some better burst dps (i.e. Flurry of Blows fix, or "ki blast" idea).
Whinging how we do poor dps and the devs hate us isn't going to fix that.

[Aerendil]

still doesnt make up for 600 points of electric damage or 300 points of fire damage or any of the other shroud item advantages ...

they only way they could fix that is to eleminate shroud crafting and that would be stupid

No, it wouldn't IMO. Shroud crafting, in and of itself, is a good idea.
Having weapons that do 600 electrical damage is outright broken and completely ********.

If not for Shroud weaponry and things such as Paladin exalted smites doing 500+ damage, our dps wouldn't look nearly so terrible.

[Whargoul]

All I was suggesting was to make handwraps look like this:

handwrap 1d6, crit x2, threat 20

It would be a one-handed weapon anyone can use (just like any other one-handed weapon). Therefor it would obey all the rules a normal weapon would. It also could be crafted as a greensteel weapon with no extra special coding involved.

All I added to this is to have monks do extra damage when centered: +1 damage / 2 monk levels. That's it.

[cbj192]

....The DEV that worked on the Monk class would love your OP and insistence that they hate the class.

That's why they spent so much time on the class b/c they hated it.

Really your stance is off-base.

Are there design issues? yes BUT it's not b/c they hate the class.

Monks just have fallen down the ever changing priority list recently. That's all.

Could they be better at communication? Yes, but really you cant always expect full disclosure as things are very fluid.

[Alcides]

If you read the Lammania Patch Notes you'll find a little statement "Monks with the Two Weapon Fighting chain of feats now gain additional attacks when fighting unarmed." I don't know about you, but I think that more than makes up for the fact that monks are getting green steel handwraps Of course they'll probably put in craftable handwraps later.

[Hafeal]

According to the rogues, they still hate them more!

[Visty]

If you read the Lammania Patch Notes you'll find a little statement "Monks with the Two Weapon Fighting chain of feats now gain additional attacks when fighting unarmed." I don't know about you, but I think that more than makes up for the fact that monks are getting green steel handwraps Of course they'll probably put in craftable handwraps later.

considering they already get additional attacks, this wont change much

[Deaths_ward]

considering they already get additional attacks, this wont change much

Unless they are getting an even greater number of attacks.

Just image at level 20, unmodified if your attack chain ended up looking something like...

+20/+20/+25/+30/+35/+40/+45/+50/+55/+60, all while in the final tier of of wind stance (part of which stacks with haste now because of the altered bonus type), that would be some kind of amazing, and even against DR 15 mobs you swinging for 3d6+magic+str meaning you'd be doing 2-8 points or so, but attacking like 10 times faster than the guy doing 10-15.....~gets lost in fantasy land~ if only, if only.

[Fennario]

do you realize that we already have no advantage taking more ring slot needs away from us (where do i put my chattering ring now that another raid item is forcing that slot ... do i take off my con ring?)

Yes, you'll probably want to lose the con ring in favor of one of these necklaces:








Right?

I'm guessing that monks aren't the only class that is going to have to re-arrange their gear to fit in the new loot.

[Aerendil]

^^ Exactly, and keep in mind that those aren't class-restricted. So anyone can use them, you just won't get the set benefits if you're not of the right PrE.

So technically the Monks could also go for this:


Or this:



As pretty much everything in the new "set" lists have CON+6 on them, I'd imagine a +6 CON ring will soon be the thing of the past.

[Fennario]

^^ Exactly, and keep in mind that those aren't class-restricted. So anyone can use them, you just won't get the set benefits if you're not of the right PrE.

Very true. And since monk Pre's aren't coming this time around, you're not really losing anything for using a non-monk set.

I'm probably gonna try and get all the monk sets though and bank them for the future. Still haven't decided which way I'm going on my monk.

The monk Pre' have been announced in name only correct? I haven't read what they actually do yet. I've only seen threads speculating how they may work.

[Aerendil]

The monk Pre' have been announced in name only correct? I haven't read what they actually do yet. I've only seen threads speculating how they may work.

Correct.

And since Monk is quite different from it's PnP counterpart, with Turbine's invention of stances, finishing moves, ki, and the like, it's hard to guess what these PrEs will give us. I can only assume they'll be quite different from the PnP versions.

Taking a quick guess based on those necklaces, it looks as though Ninja Spy focuses on stealth and sneak attacks; Henshin Mystic focuses on the elemental attacks; and Shintao Monk may become the Kensai of the Monk class with pure damage output.

But... that's pure speculation. At this point, your guess is as good as mine!

[SableShadow]

Let it drop first; then hate it.