Accountability and the abuse of power

[ShadowHand2]

...but his rep is off...

Just as society as a whole feels the need to point out individual members who somehow detract from the whole, that others may recognize those individuals for what they are and avoid them (The Darwin Awards, Jon Stewart, sex offender and no-fly lists), so too may we on the boards point out to our fellow gamers and potential new recruits those few whose posts extend beyond trolling, not merely derailing or being unrelated to a thread, but actually causing a net decrease in the intelligence of those who have mistakenly read a post, or a thread, seeking enlightenment only to find mind-numbing stupidity, ignorance or aimless derision. (+1 rep for anyone who actually reads this drivel of mine!)

If you don't want negative rep, try the same things that would have gotten you an 'E' on your report card in kindergarten: playing well with others, paying attention, not being disruptive, napping during nap time, and not verbally attacking those less childish than you. Oh, and try flushing all of the **** that comes out of you in the potty instead of on the forums.

And yet a post like this is of yours is positive? Try less in telling others to be less insulting and end it with just that. It will make it less confusing for a reader to know what your trying to convey, when you cannot even follow your own advice.
I do appreciate the try though, I will take the good and the bad and not hold it against you.

[sephiroth1084]

I never read your nonsense.

Who posts an emoticon without any text?!

And yet a post like this is of yours is positive? Try less in telling others to be less insulting and end it with just that. It will make it less confusing for a reader to know what your trying to convey, when you cannot even follow your own advice.
I do applicate the try though, I will take the good and the bad and not hold it against you.

With that grammar and abuse of the English language, I kind of wish you had held it against me--an angry post probably would have been less damaging.

Oh, and what's "applicate"? Is that a contraction of appreciate, and I shall placate you by hanging on every word you say, and I shall now apply your genius to mine own words and shall spread such in the same idiom as Johnny Appleseed? If so, I really don't deserve that kind of ungrammatical devotion. Really, it's flattering, but, no thanks.

[ShadowHand2]

Who posts an emoticon without any text?!



With that grammar and abuse of the English language, I kind of wish you had held it against me--an angry post probably would have been less damaging.

Oh, and what's "applicate"? Is that a contraction of appreciate, and I shall placate you by hanging on every word you say, and I shall now apply your genius to mine own words and shall spread such in the same idiom as Johnny Appleseed? If so, I really don't deserve that kind of ungrammatical devotion. Really, it's flattering, but, no thanks.

I am sorry if you cannot focus on the topic but more on the grammar and spelling of a person. Some might find that rude to play spelling police to others in a forum. Not needed nor wanted. You will find that paying attention to the topic more productive then trying to correct others spelling and/or grammar. Hope that helps you in the future on the forums and I am glad to have help you. Conversation is over sadly.

[smatt]

LOL, dude go take it the some political forum.. This is a game forum nobody cares

[Aranticus]

Well stated and with thoughts I have had myself. The ability for ones peers to give negative points to one another only breeds contempt. That should be a power reserved for the moderators themselves and NO player. It should be Turbine officials that decide what post or poster has crossed the line (otherwise as a player use the report button or pm them), giving that power to a select few will only promote more discontent.

Shadow,

In the past we have had a disagreement or 2 but I say this with no Ill will in mind what so ever.

- Your post was written well enough but too philosophical for most to get the point or even attempt to read

- I hear what u are saying and I agree that your peers should not have the power to publicly diminish you in such a way that is visable every time you log on (or even when logged off for that matter)

My advice:

- If u feel the system is not working well or being abused, you really should PM a moderator and have them review the situation. Making a post and taking this stand publicly only singles you out and makes you a target for more of the same (possibly).

Turning off your rep was a good way of saying you dont believe the system is a good idea publicly but to affect a change you need to work internally, appealing to the forums wont help much at all.


My 2 cents, meant with no disrespect at all, for what its worth

He is saying that he does not like the fact that other players can give neg rep on the forums.

I agree 100%.

OP: +1 Rep.

this is like the 3rd or 4th thread in as many days that i've seen coming from him. far as i know, it has been confirmed that while a player can have bad neg, he/she need may not be banned. the ultimate power still lies in the hands of the mods. neg repping serves as a means for the mods to identify disruptive elements in the forum "society"

can such powers be abused? probably. a guild of players can start pos repping each other to gain the ability to neg rep others and then congregate on 1 single player to neg him to oblivion. a mod will be notified that he probably has a disruptive poster, takes a look and sees the opposite. i doubt the mod will follow thru with the ban. will there be repercussions for the posters who neg repped, that i'm not certain

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=53

however, these situations will be exceptions rather than the norm. i think i would **** enough people off on these forums but to get a whole bunch of people to turn against you would require more than that. but i guess it aint too hard for you. i've seen most of the arguments and counterarguments you made. not much can be said about them. rejecting valid reasons with inane rabble will not make you more popular

it wouldnt be hard to identify that the OP probably posted this thread because of mod actions he got in the others. 1 thread was locked and possibly he recieved points for it. this could be a thinly veiled attempt to call out the mods on their actions. i have to accept that the OP is very well written. compared to the rest of the drivel you posted before, this is a masterpiece. unfortunately, there is only 1 place its going....

[Borror0]

will there be repercussions for the posters who neg repped, that i'm not certain

They stated there would be. It's part of the guidelines, even.

[Aranticus]

They stated there would be. It's part of the guidelines, even.

then where's the basis of the OP?!?!

[sephiroth1084]

I am sorry if you cannot focus on the topic but more on the grammar and spelling of a person. Some might find that rude to play spelling police to others in a forum. Not needed nor wanted. You will find that paying attention to the topic more productive then trying to correct others spelling and/or grammar. Hope that helps you in the future on the forums and I am glad to have help you. Conversation is over sadly.

Ok. Hanging up the "English tutor" hat for a minute...

And yet a post like this is of yours is positive? Try less in telling others to be less insulting and end it with just that. It will make it less confusing for a reader to know what your trying to convey, when you cannot even follow your own advice.
I do appreciate the try though, I will take the good and the bad and not hold it against you.

-Not trying to be positive. Not in the sense that you're sensing anyway. That'd be senseless.

-I most certainly did not instruct anyone to be less abrasive. While I do feel that that is a noble goal of the favor system (that of encouraging players to not **** off their fellow forum denizens), I definitely feel that there is a time and a place for such antics (aqui).

-Who's to say that I'm not following my own advice? I can't give negative rep, since my name is not Borrorororor00ror0or0, and as such, I have but one choice: resort to expounding upon the faults of an inherently vapid stance of a near-pariah via the written word.

Perhaps I'm being overly harsh, but memories of the KGA are still fresh in my mind, if not on the forums--it's okay to circle the wagons, but not to point out the bandits in the hills?

[sephiroth1084]

this could be a thinly veiled attempt to call out the mods on their actions.

That was my thought exactly, but I wasn't expecting as opaque a veil as the original post.

i have to accept that the OP is very well written. compared to the rest of the drivel you posted before, this is a masterpiece.

Suspiciously so...

[Borror0]

then where's the basis of the OP?!?!

There is none.

[captain1z]

far as i know, it has been confirmed that while a player can have bad neg, he/she need may not be banned. the ultimate power still lies in the hands of the mods. neg repping serves as a means for the mods to identify disruptive elements in the forum "society"

....

The mods already have a system that identifies bad seeds..... "the points they hand out". They dont need us pointing the finger at people saying "hey look at him".

This is just a means for us (I believe) to boost individual forum members status above the rest. I have no problem with that as some of you guys do a lot of helpful things on these boards.

Where it does become a problem for me is the negative rep that as someone said earlier warns new posters and everyone else in the community of a poster who in some peoples opinion could be trolls.

A system like that forces someone with negive rep to sit in a corner by himself as some will avoid him and never get the chance to know or attempt to know him. I say that each individual should make up his own mind about a poster through experience and not heresay as the facts could be wrong.

It has other disadvantages that impact gameplay experience as well.

Example: say a person with some real bad negative rep sees a poster looking for a vorpal kama and offering a tome. The neg rep guy has such a kama and needs/wants the tome so he communicates to the other poster who replies "dude, your a troll. I need a kama but not from you, no thanks".

I think you know as well as I do ranty that we dont need this kind of visible branding here on the forums or in game. Besides, if you are on the boards often enough, you know whos who and whats what. Do we want new players coming in days from now say "I just started posting 2 days ago and I have more rep than you. So to me your 2006 start date means nothing"

Does the OP have a different agenda in mind? I dont know but it doesnt change the fact that I think the rep system as it stands is worse than a tool for griefing because it marks you as well.

If Ive been taking crazy pills plz let me know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx_ZU...eature=related

[Borror0]

Suspiciously so...

Maybe more than you think.

From the OP:

Culture of fear:

Such abuse of authority thrives in a culture whose people fear one another. Leaders are afraid of losing power. Subordinates know the danger of confronting those in authority. Loyalty is emphasized to distract from what is really happening. Mutual intimidation lies just under the surface of what seems safe to talk about or question.

Culture of control and exclusion:

When those with power and authority are not held to any real standard or scrutiny in a fair process with the normal checks and balances....they are allowed free reign to impose their wills in ways that are beyond their rightful sphere of influence. Such person(s) may then remove any noncompliance undesirables from the group. Not for the sake of the group, but as a means to protect their on "leadership" or power base.

By threatening exclusion for noncompliance, "leaders" can require submission in matters that are more personal and bias. Funny enough, these same "leaders" that abuse will claim their own accountability is a given from the mere fact of the position they hold with a iron fist. They will also claim they are above criticism and question, without granting the same freedom to others.

From here:

A culture of fear.

Such abuse of authority thrives in a culture whose people fear one another. Leaders are afraid of losing power. Subordinates know the danger of confronting those in authority. Loyalty is emphasized to distract from what is really happening. Mutual intimidation lies just under the surface of what seems safe to talk about or question.

A culture of control and exclusion.
When spiritual overseers are not held accountable to fair process and well-defined checks and balances, they can impose their will in ways that go beyond their rightful sphere of control. Such leaders may remove a noncompliant person from the group, not for the sake of the organization but as a means to protect their own leadership. By threatening exclusion for noncompliance, leaders can require submission in matters that are more personal than public, more cultural than biblical, and more arbitrary than fairly reasoned. Ironically, abusive leaders often suggest that their own accountability to God places them above criticism and question, without granting the same freedom to others.

[Mhykke]

[sephiroth1084]

stuff

...or the negative rep might encourage the poster in question to rescind his uncouth ways and make nice with the rest of the populace. It could work...

Have you noticed how much less annoying Bran's posts were after that Bran-bashing thread with hundreds of signers? Neg rep is certainly less offensive than that was!

As for your trading example, I foresee one of three things transpiring:
-the trader makes the trade anyway, since ultimately cash and items outweigh popularity for most people
-the trader avoids the pariah, realizing that something about this person has generated so much ill-will socially, that perhaps those same traits are manifest in their gaming and trading style as well
-the game essplodes in your very hands!

[sephiroth1084]

Maybe more than you think.

From the OP:


From here:

And for every friendly jab I throw at you, I have to give a begrudged point of favor for doing the legwork. **** you Borr! **** you to the places depicted in that article!

Good catch, though not more than I thought. I can spot plagiarism at 20 paces, and can smell it a mile away.

Yeah, you get some rep as well. Awesome. Which movie is that from? Tommy Lee wears that expression and that uniform together so often...

[Borror0]

Maybe more than you think.

He stole a few more lines this article.

From the OP:

[...] abuse of power or authority may be the prime source and true essence of moral EVIL. One can say Moral evil begins to show when someone refuses to accept responsibility for the welfare of those under them. More so if for those who are under their direct care. When you can decisively influence (the) reality (of others), you have power over them.

From the article:

Abuse of power or authority may be the prime source and true essence of moral EVIL - Evil is the ABUSE of power. Moral EVIL begins to exist when someone refuses to accept responsibility for the welfare of others, especially those naturally under his or her direct care. It can be said that someone has POWER, if that someone can decisively influence (the) reality (of others).

From the OP:

When one unjustifiably uses that power to EXPLOIT or HARM those others, or through lack of action, ALLOWS exploitation or harm to occur to them.

It follows that someone who does not have any form of power cannot abuse it.

It also follows that the main (and perhaps the only) principle of human ethics and morality should be to avoid the abuse of the power.

From the article:

[...] unjustifiably uses that power to EXPLOIT or HARM those others, or through lack of action, ALLOWS exploitation or harm to occur to them.

It follows that someone who does not have (a particular form of) power cannot abuse it.

It also follows that the main (and perhaps the only) principle of human ethics and morality should be to avoid the abuse of power.

From the OP:

It is unethical and extremely wrong to put one's self in a position of conflict of interest. As is putting a subordinate in a position of conflict of interest demonstrates a complete ignorance of ethics. Yet if one does not put basic ethics into his/her position as a general rule of governing, you allow yourself no standard to be judged on. In other words you remove your self from reproach.

Also, it stands to reason that if those who want to stop or impede the abuse of power (or those who are charged with this duty) do not have sufficient power (even if it were only moral power), they and their efforts will only serve as a source of amusement to those who abuse it.

From the article:

From this it follows that it is extremely unethical to put oneself (or to stay) in a position of conflict of interest, i.e., where one's benefit or profit depends on harming or exploiting others. And of course, it also follows that putting a subordinate in a position of conflict of interest demonstrates a complete ignorance of ethics.

Additionally, it follows that if those who want to stop or impede the abuse of power (or those who are charged with this duty) do not have sufficient power (even if it were only moral power), they and their efforts will only serve as a source of amusement to those who abuse it.

[Borror0]

**** you Borr! **** you to the places depicted in that article!

Already there. *points at location*

[sephiroth1084]

He stole a few more lines this article.

From the OP:

From the article:

From the OP:


From the article:

From the OP:

From the article:

Borr...what exactly do you do for a living?

I'm thinking professional blogger/forum poster, high school teacher/college professor, or literary assassin/CIA agent/PI. The worst part is that I'm not really sure which of those scares me the most...

[captain1z]

Maybe more than you think.

From the OP:

...or
-the game essplodes in your very hands!

your honors the defence rests.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA06Z5e1ZFc

[Aranticus]

no wonder it make sense