New Stalwart fighter tips needed

[Hurricane74]

Sweet game,i must admit,but getting your feet wet in a whole new game can be daunting to say the least,thats why Im turning to you the peeps on the forums for help.Ive decided to be a a flat out tank,So I need to know what feats, abilities ect That I should work on.Any tips appreciated

[FluffyCalico]

Sweet game,i must admit,but getting your feet wet in a whole new game can be daunting to say the least,thats why Im turning to you the peeps on the forums for help.Ive decided to be a a flat out tank,So I need to know what feats, abilities ect That I should work on.Any tips appreciated

You need HP, and aggro. AC is helpful too.

Aggro is DPS or intimidate

Pure fighter with TWF feats, the defender line and high intimidate would work.
So would a pure kensai

Either way make sure you make something that can do something useful besides tank as you usually don't need one person dedicated to just that. Tank is great but dont be just a tank.

Rule #1 if you have aggro you are the tank weather its a good idea or not.
Rule #2 if you don't have aggro you are not the tank
Rule #3 if you are dead you are no longer the tank see #2
Rule #4 don't need tank right this min what else can you do?

PS> I hope this is not your first toon as melee are expensive to gear and if you don't have really good gear see #2

[rezo]

This is for "Fighter Stalwart Defender I" at level 6,

Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 16 action points
Requires One of: Dodge, Combat Expertise, Shield Mastery, Least Dragonmark of Sentinel, Diehard
Requires All of: Toughness, Fighter Armor Class Boost I, Fighter Intimidate II
Grants: Stalwart Defender: Defensive Stance

This for "Fighter Stalwart Defender "II at level 12,

Cost: 2 action points
Spent: 42 action points
Requires One of: Fighter Armored Agility II, Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel, Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II, Fighter Armor Mastery II, Fighter Toughness II
Requires All of: Fighter Item Defense I, Fighter Armor Class Boost II, Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Grants: Stalwart Defender II: Improved Defensive Stance

This is for " Fighter Stalwart Defender "III at level 18,

Cost: 2 action points
Spent: 66 action points
Requires One of: Fighter Armored Agility III, Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel, Fighter Tower Shield Mastery III, Fighter Armor Mastery III, Fighter Toughness III
Requires All of: Fighter Item Defense II, Fighter Armor Class Boost III, Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Grants: , Stalwart Defender III: Superior Defensive Stance

[Shade]

Stalwart Defender looks like a decent PrC.. And oddly I don't see any good builds posted for it yet... So heres my thoughts:

If you wanna be a great AC tank for elite content like endgame raid (VoD) you need some very extreme AC.. 95+ generally.

To hit that kind of number you pretty much have to splash monk levels. If your content to tank just normal/hard, going pure should be fine (and you'll get plenty of it anyways given the passive bonuses the PrC offers)

For splash,, probably 18/2.. Youd keep stalwart III, and gain monk feats and mostly important monk wis bonus to AC. (also evasion when you wear light armor, but this PrC focuses on heavy armor, so that should be rarely)

You'd want:
Probably 17 str so you can hit stuff and hold agro
~12-13 con, rather low for a melee build but you need the other points for:
Mix rest into wis and dex as these are the only stats to up armor class.
Dump cha, int. Becaust Stalwart defender gets 300% agro anyways, you won't need to rely on intimidate to lock the mobs on you with that agro bonus.

Defender focuses on using tower shields and allows a very hgih dex bonus while using them:
I believe
2 base for a tower..
+2 mithral
+3 defender
+3 enhancement
= 10 or 30 dex
You kinda wanna max ur dex bonus.. To do that ur pretty much starting 16/17/18 dex and needing max gear (even 16 +4 tome, +6 item = only 26)

Then you also need some left for wisdom too..

Normally Dwarf or Warforged makes the best tanks thanks to their higher con (and dwarfs get armor mastery for cheap).. Tho due to the very high dex requirements to max out this PrC you'd maybe wanna go Human (+1dex/wis) or Halfling (+4dex) (halflings get an AC bonus too)

Alignment you gota be Lawful for the chaosgardes.. Tho neutral allows you to use the littany of the dead (+1 all stats).. But then you'd need UMD20+ for the chaosgardes.

Really man it's a very tricky build due to the very very many factors that effects AC, and the uselessness of AC if you don't max it. Do lots of research on everything before you try to build one.

[Yargore]

Here's a proper stalwart defender build:

Class: Fighter 20
Race: Dwarf
Allignment: Neutral

Starting Stats:
Str 16
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 12


Ending Stats:
Str 36 (16 base + 5 level + 6 item + 3 tome + 2 enhancement + 4 defensive stance)
Dex 24 (15 base + 3 tome + 6 item)
Con 26 (14 base + 2 tome + 6 item +1 enhancemet + 4 defensive stance)
Int 14 (12 base + 2 tome)
Wis 8 (8 base)
Cha 20 (12 base + 2 tome +6 item)



Final AC Breakdown:
10 Base
7 dex
15 Dragontouched fp
5 deflection
5 combat expertise
1 Dodge
3 Chattering Ring
4 insight
2 chaos
1 Rituals
3 stalwart defender
(10 shield + ritual)
----------------
56 (66) - unbuffed
----------------
3 bark pot
1 haste
4 shield
2 recitation
----------------
66 (72) - self buffed
----------------
4 defensive stance
----------------
70 (76) - stance
----------------
2 barkskin
4 bard song
6 aura
----------------
82 (88) with party buffs
----------------


Enhancements

Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specalization II
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity

Feats:
1. Iron Will
1 (Fighter). Two Weapon Fighting
2 (Fighter). Combat Expertise
3. Force of Personality
4 (Fighter). Weapon Focus: Slashing
6. Dodge
6. (Fighter). Weapon Specalization: Slashing
8 (Fighter). Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9. Improved Critical: Slashing (swap to pierce when you get 2 x mineral II)
10 (Fighter). Power attack
12. Skill Focus: Intimidate
12 (Fighter). Greater Two Weapon Fighting
14 (Fighter).Greater Weapon Specalization: Slashing
15. Khopesh
16 (Fighter). Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
18. Toughness
18 (Fighter). Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
20 (Fighter). Quickdraw

Saves Unbuffed
Fortitude: 30 (12 fighter + 6 con + 5 res + 2 head + 4 dwarf + 1 ritual)
Reflex: 21 (25 vs spell) (6 fighter + 7 dex + 5 res + 1 ritual + 2 head (+ 4 dwarf))
Will: 25 (6 fighter + 5 cha + 5 res + 4 dwarf +2 iron will + 2 head +1 ritual)


Saves Self Buffed
Fortitude: 37 ( + 4 GH + 3 Dstance)
Reflex: 29 (33 vs spells)( + 4 GH + 1 haste + 3 Dstance)
Will: 32 ( + 4 GH + 3 Dstance)


Hit Points
200 Fighter
160 con
20 heroic durability
10 draconic vitality
22 toughness
50 tougness enhancements
30 greater false life
45 shroud item
---------------
537 hp

Skill Points:

Eat a +2 int tome at level 1 and take balance, jump, intimidate, UMD

Intimidate:
23 ranks
5 cha
4 enhancement
6 stalwart defender
3 feat
15 item
6 crafted item
2 reaver trinket
4 GH
2 bard song
--------------
70

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Here's a proper stalwart defender build:


Final AC Breakdown:
10 Base
7 dex
15 Dragontouched fp
5 deflection
5 combat expertise
1 Dodge
3 Chattering Ring
4 insight
2 chaos
1 Rituals
3 stalwart defender
(10 shield + ritual)
----------------
56 (66) - unbuffed
----------------
3 bark pot
1 haste
4 shield
2 recitation
----------------
66 (72) - self buffed
----------------
4 defensive stance
----------------
70 (76) - stance
----------------
2 barkskin
4 bard song
6 aura
----------------
82 (88) with party buffs
----------------

I don't think that AC Calc is quite right.... but I could be wrong myself.
1) I don't think a Paladin Aura gives 6... only 5 with the highest Enhancements (unless I missed something)... but something else is sscrewy here too. EDIT - Forgot about DoS... added

10 - Base
15 - DT Heavy Armor - MDB:1 + 2 (Stalwart 3) + 3 (DAM3) + 2 (FAM3) = 9
9 - +5 MTShield - MDB:4 + 3 (Stalwart 3) + 2 (FTSM) = 9
9 - DEX
3 - Stalwart Defender Bonus
4 - Insight (Green Steel)
5 - Protection +5
1 - Dodge Feat
3 - Chattering (Ring/DT Armor)
2 - Rituals
2 - Chaosguarde
5 - Combat Expertise
----------------------------------
68 Standing BAC (Beholder Armor Class)
----------------------------------
3 - Barkskin +3 Pot
1 - Haste
----------------------------------
72 Self-Buffed AC
----------------------------------
2 - Ranger's Barkskin
5 - Paladin 15+ Aura
4 - Bard AC Song
2 - Recitation
----------------------------------
85 "Raid Party" AC
----------------------------------
1 - Defender of Syberis Paladin Aura
4 - Defensive Stance (I doubt many will stay in this long, so I am counting it separately)
----------------------------------
90 "Max" AC


I am at a loss on any way to improve on that AC calc... Halfling make +1 Size, but 6 MDB (net of -2 AC) and penalty on Intimidate... Warforged means 6 MDB (net of -3 AC, but added immunities and WF DR)... Elf/Drow means MDB 6 as well, even with a higher Dex potential...

Anything I am missing here?
EDIT - Corrected for Mod 9 stuffs: This is assuming 28 Dex = 16 (Base) + 3 (Tome) + 2 (Exceptional) + 1 (Exceptional) + 6 (Item)
+1 & +2 Exceptional could be GS Weapon or Mod 9 Ring

Note: I left the Tome at +3 because I haven't seen proof of +4 Tomes in Mod 9 yet...

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I don't think that AC Calc is quite right.... but I could be wrong myself.
1) I don't think a Paladin Aura gives 6... only 5 with the highest Enhancements (unless I missed something)... but something else is sscrewy here too.

With DoS it should give +6

I am at a loss on any way to improve on that AC calc... Halfling make +1 Size, but -1 MDB and penalty on Intimidate... Warforged mean -1 MDB...

Anything I am missing here?
This is assuming 24 Dex - 16 Base + 2 (Tome) + 6 (Item)

Fighter towershield mastery II and Dwarf + fighter armor mastery III = +2 more ac.

(15 base + 4 tome + 6 item +2 exceptional (mod 9 ring) +1 exceptional (mod 9 ring)=28)

[Yargore]

I don't think that AC Calc is quite right.... but I could be wrong myself.
1) I don't think a Paladin Aura gives 6... only 5 with the highest Enhancements (unless I missed something)... but something else is sscrewy here too.

DoS III gives +1 AC to paladin auras.
I don't see what's screwy with the calc.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

With DoS it should give +6




Fighter towershield mastery II and Dwarf + fighter armor mastery III = +2 more ac.

(15 base + 4 tome + 6 item +2 exceptional (mod 9 ring) +1 exceptional (mod 9 ring)=28)

Ok, the DoS is what I didn't remember.

And yes, in theory 28 Dex is possible... I was not trying to not devote every slot to AC, and thus potentially gimp DPS/Intimidate/etc...

Edited above to correct

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Ok, and thinking out loud... is there any way to make this work better UNARMORED?

Elf/Drow/Halfling
-15 - DT Heavy
-2 - Chaosguarde
4 - Icy Raimnent
8 - +8 Armor Bracers
5 - Dex (14 - 9 = 5)
---------------------------
0 Net AC, but can gain Evasion
1 Net AC for Halfling, can gain Evasion, penalty on Intimidate

Dex 19 (Base) + 5 (Levels) + 3 (Tome) + 2 (Racial) + 3 (Exceptional 1+2) + 6 (Item) = 38 (+14) yes, 20 starting and the Abbot Trinket makes +15, but I dont't want to totally gimp

or, Dwarf wearing +5 MPB...

-15 - DT Heavy
+10 - +5 Mithral Breastplate
4 - Dex (5 MDB + 2 Stalwart + 3 DAM + 3 FAM = 13, 13-9 = 4
---------------------------
-1 Net AC, but can gain Evasion

Hrmmm.... just thinking out loud here...

[Yargore]

Ok, the DoS is what I didn't remember.

And yes, in theory 28 Dex is possible... I was not trying to not devote every slot to AC, and thus potentially gimp DPS/Intimidate/etc...

Edited above to correct

You can still have an intimidate item and necessary DPS items.

[Angelus_dead]

Sweet game,i must admit,but getting your feet wet in a whole new game can be daunting to say the least

Be warned that a Stalwart Defender is a poor choice for a new player. To do it well would require a superior knowledge of the game.

That I should work on.Any tips appreciated

Ultimate forbidden Stalwart Defender tip:
Tumble ranks.

Tumble is how you move once Defensive Stance goes on.

[Angelus_dead]

Sweet game,i must admit,but getting your feet wet in a whole new game can be daunting to say the least

Be warned that a Stalwart Defender is a poor choice for a new player. To do it well would require a superior knowledge of the game.

It would basically be better to start with at least a Kensai fighter, then switch to Stalwart at high level if you like. However, either Paladin or Ranger is an easier warrior to learn the game with.

That I should work on.Any tips appreciated

Ultimate forbidden Stalwart Defender tip:
Tumble ranks.

Tumble is how you move once Defensive Stance goes on.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Be warned that a Stalwart Defender is a poor choice for a new player. To do it well would require a superior knowledge of the game.

It would basically be better to start with at least a Kensai fighter, then switch to Stalwart at high level if you like. However, either Paladin or Ranger is an easier warrior to learn the game with.


Ultimate forbidden Stalwart Defender tip:
Tumble ranks.

Tumble is how you move once Defensive Stance goes on.

You are correct... not a new player build... sorry to hijack the thread, OP, but I had been rolling around the AC question in my head for awhile.

[Shade]

Ok, and thinking out loud... is there any way to make this work better UNARMORED?

IMO, not really. It's a heavy armor focused PrC.

I think you forget the fact you won't be able to put on a shield without losing that extra ~5 dex. Tho despite that I imagine at the very max levels of gear and stats you can squeek out more AC on the no armor dex/wis monk splash build. ( you mention evasion so I assume 2 monks levels.. Their wis bonus to AC would make up for loss of shield. )

But imo it goes against the spirit of the PrC.. Being it is very focused on heavy armor and tower shields - it's designed to allow a strength based figter, that maintains a good dex for AC - but doesn't put his lvl points in there.

IMO the moment you start putting those level up points into dex and drop the armor/shield, you kinda defeat a large portion of this PrCs purpose.

The Monk/Rogue types will beat your AC so severely that it kinda defeats the purpose and strenght of the PrC. The large boost to blocking DR is a big part of it, and if you put that shield on a Dex build - well there goes any advantage you had out the window as your now just netting a lower AC then the armored guy, with a futher gimped DPS to boot (due to lack of stat points in str)

Tho as before, Given the quoted ~90 max AC for a pure build.. I stand by my earlier post to say this will work well as a normal/hard "tank".. But the moment you step into elite quests/raids featuring those nasty devils, you will still be getting ripped apart. As the target AC for those I'm told is 95.. A number only reasonably obtainable by a monk splash build.

[Shade]

I am at a loss on any way to improve on that AC calc... Halfling make +1 Size, but 6 MDB (net of -2 AC) and penalty on Intimidate

Hmm good point never considered that one. Looks like Dwarf may be pretty much the best due to the armor mastery enhancements.

However there is an alternative - the Dagger tooth belt. +2 max dex bonus enhance.. Assuming that stacks with the fighter enhancement?

That would give Halfligns an equal AC, and an easily road to it (given there +2 dex, +2 dex enhance, they can much more easily hit the required dex cap of 28 vs a Dwarf)

But not the most attractive alternative, given the power of the new upcoming raidbelts. (which don't directly increase AC - the defender set on is a necklace, however they are still very powerful belts for such a build (+6 con, GFL)
From the loot list - possibly the one thing your missing from the AC breakdown, bringing the grand total to 92:
Stalwart Defender: When both items are equipped you will gain 15% additional threat from melee attacks. If you have the Stalwart Defender 3 Enhancement, this item will grant an +2 AC Bonus. This bonus will stack with all existing bonuses.

re: Note: I left the Tome at +3 because I haven't seen proof of +4 Tomes in Mod 9 yet...
Yea don't think anyones done a screenshot yet. Tho I have personally spoken to a guy on Lamannia who has used one - it was given out as a prize during one of the beta stress tests, I understand many of them have been.

[Riekan]

The Daggertooth belt gives the enhancement Fighter Armor Mastery II. It will stack with the Dwarven line, but not the Fighter line.

[rimble]

I'm trying a WF Mithral Body 18 Fighter/2 Rogue Evasion version...the particularly challenging part is that it will require a 30 Dex (started at 16) and uses three additional feats: Mithral Body (5 Max Dex Bonus), and Mithral Fluidity x 2 (+2 Max Dex Bonus)--plus Fighter Armor and Tower Shield Mastery III (+3 Max Dex Bonus).

But it should be just a couple AC below the Dwarven Heavy Armor version, and have Evasion. Somewhere around this I think (ridiculous gear required):

10 Base
10 Dex (Mithral Body, Mithral Fluidity x 2, FAM III, +4 Tome, Exc. Dex +2)
5 Mithral Body
9 Mithral Tower Shield
7 DT Docent
5 Protection
5 Combat Expertise
1 Alchemical Docent
1 Alchemical Shield
1 Dodge Feat
2 Chaosgarde
4 Insight (GS, DT)
3 Chattering Ring
3 Stalwart Passive
3 Stalwart Defensive Stance
2 Stalwart Item Set (Necklace / Belt or Ring)
-----
71 No-Buffed w/ Evasion

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

IMO, not really. It's a heavy armor focused PrC.

I think you forget the fact you won't be able to put on a shield without losing that extra ~5 dex. Tho despite that I imagine at the very max levels of gear and stats you can squeek out more AC on the no armor dex/wis monk splash build. ( you mention evasion so I assume 2 monks levels.. Their wis bonus to AC would make up for loss of shield. )

But imo it goes against the spirit of the PrC.. Being it is very focused on heavy armor and tower shields - it's designed to allow a strength based figter, that maintains a good dex for AC - but doesn't put his lvl points in there.

IMO the moment you start putting those level up points into dex and drop the armor/shield, you kinda defeat a large portion of this PrCs purpose.

The Monk/Rogue types will beat your AC so severely that it kinda defeats the purpose and strenght of the PrC. The large boost to blocking DR is a big part of it, and if you put that shield on a Dex build - well there goes any advantage you had out the window as your now just netting a lower AC then the armored guy, with a futher gimped DPS to boot (due to lack of stat points in str)

Tho as before, Given the quoted ~90 max AC for a pure build.. I stand by my earlier post to say this will work well as a normal/hard "tank".. But the moment you step into elite quests/raids featuring those nasty devils, you will still be getting ripped apart. As the target AC for those I'm told is 95.. A number only reasonably obtainable by a monk splash build.

I know it's against the spirit... but hey, it's all about min/maxing now adays!

But, I have created a new thread, to not jack the OP here, with fuller breakdown of working out this AC question, including WF variant, Light Armor and Unarmored variants...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=194873