To DDO/Turbine

[Borror0]

It's not flawed, nor are you forced to use it.

I would argue it is flawed. Reputation is nearly equal to number_of_posts*humor_quotient*comments_about_repu tation.

If you prefer, if you want reputation, the best is to post a lot, be funny and make comments about the reputation system so that others think about handing out reputation to you. Posting a really helpful post (like a guide) may also help.

[Magis_DarkStone]

You chose to take part in the fourm "Community". Which means that your stuck with the Community Systems or rules. Same as real life.

You go into your school or Work ****ing people off and offending them However your doing it (not that you did I never check your history). People aren't going to like you and are going to put you negitive. It doesn't matter if you belive your right or even if your right. Its all perception aka "Social grace".

Personally from what I've seen you say in this thread, Your an ****** and a whiner. Thats my perception of you so yes I'd give you neg rep without a second though.


Have a Nice day.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Can I have a Dev or the like show me the link or area that states the Reputation system is a rule that we HAVE to use or is it in fact merely a system. A system is not the same as a rule...and as such if we do not want to be a part of a option where is the rule that says we have to use it? The disable option is not a disable option it only removes the view of your points you do not want to be a part of. So are we forced to use a system that is not a rule?

Again, just a link that shows we HAVE to use it or a place where we can opt out of a system/tool on the forums?

Let's see....its their board, if they say it gets used, it gets used. They make the rules, they don't have to write them down for you.

Incorrect freedom of speech on the INTERNET is upheld by the US Supreme court....but you knew that right? Try again. Off topic and a derailment. Where is the link as I have ask from above?

Well first of all you linked to wiki, not the court decisions, so maybe you didn't actually read or understand the decisions, but they do not apply. All those decisions did was to apply the same standard for judging free speach to the Internet as to traditional media. There is no protection of speach under the 1st ammendment in settings such as this one. The protection is designed mainly to prevent the government interfering with your speach, not to force a private entitiy to let you say something within their pages. For example you can't force the New York Times to let you have a weekly column because of Freedom of Speach. Even in the non-legal articles you sited they clearly say free speach is not without limits. In addition, the rep system is just a rating and monitoring system and does not by itself censor any speach.

The list is longer than that. You have to add Impaqt, Draccus, Jerry, Strakeln and Big-Dex.

I might be missing one or two, though.

I assume there are limits on handing out bad rep the way there are limits on good rep? Although most days I imagine that aren't THAT many people that need bad rep lol

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I would argue it is flawed. Reputation is nearly equal to number_of_posts*humor_quotient*comments_about_repu tation.

If you prefer, if you want reputation, the best is to post a lot, be funny and make comments about the reputation system so that others think about handing out reputation to you. Posting a really helpful post (like a guide) may also help.

I posted suggesting that the forum rep system was a bad idea in the thread it was announced. I'm still not sure its a good idea to make someone feel bad about themselves, even if they are getting the rep because they are jerks or posted really dumb ideas. On a way its enabling the masses to pick on the weak and stupid.

And I'm not sure what the benefit of having it is, so why have something that can hurt people's feelings as part of the official system if it doesn't bring a significant benefit?

[ShadowHand2]

You chose to take part in the fourm "Community". Which means that your stuck with the Community Systems or rules. Same as real life.

You go into your school or Work ****ing people off and offending them However your doing it (not that you did I never check your history). People aren't going to like you and are going to put you negitive. It doesn't matter if you belive your right or even if your right. Its all perception aka "Social grace".

Personally from what I've seen you say in this thread, Your an ****** and a whiner. Thats my perception of you so yes I'd give you neg rep without a second though.


Have a Nice day.

Incorrect on all accounts. The rep system is a TOOL to be used, what it is NOT is a rule. The Rep system was in fact added afterward and circumvents forum rules. Case in point: A player breaks rules of forum rules are subject to infraction points BY Dev's to restrict or remove your right to post. Rep system was added as a popularity tool that is in no way connected to the forum rules yet if a person gets enough points they are subject to the REAL forum rules. Since posting a pos or neg with no restriction on why you gave said points...it is flawed. Meaning, you can give neg or pos points not as intended and there is no way to hold a person to that.

If all of you are saying you only post pos or neg as intended I say your not being truthful. There is no way to hold you to that agreement to DDO...they only hope you do that. When the time comes a poster gets neg points from others but they do not break the real forum rules.....it violates those same rules. As only Dev's have the power under their form rules to restrict or remove others from posting....again a system or tool is not the same as a rule now is it?

"Personally from what I've seen you say in this thread, Your an ****** and a whiner. Thats my perception of you so yes I'd give you neg rep without a second though." ....so you freely admit you vote as not intended but based off emotional outburst? You might wish to edit a confess like this so REAL forum rules do not get applied to you.

Point is show me the link that we all agreed to a system as I have stated many times over. If it is a popularity tool and others like myself who do not need ego stroking to feel good about ourselves then it is what is A TOOL. The disable option is not a disable option as you are still apart of a system you never volunteered for. If there in fact is no rule that binds us to a tool that says it is optional then optional means REAL OPTIONS! Popularity has nothing with personal opinion or the right to post.

[Borror0]

I assume there are limits on handing out bad rep the way there are limits on good rep?

It shares the limitation with positive reputation. If you give pos or neg rep, it takes one use out of your daily pool.

All other restrictions (cooldown per poster, etc.) also apply.

Although most days I imagine that aren't THAT many people that need bad rep lol

I would say my personal average is under 1 neg rep per day and I think I tend to give neg rep easily compared to other users.

[ShadowHand2]

I posted suggesting that the forum rep system was a bad idea in the thread it was announced. I'm still not sure its a good idea to make someone feel bad about themselves, even if they are getting the rep because they are jerks or posted really dumb ideas. On a way its enabling the masses to pick on the weak and stupid.

And I'm not sure what the benefit of having it is, so why have something that can hurt people's feelings as part of the official system if it doesn't bring a significant benefit?

Your right, and the thing is it a tool that appears as if its a rule...it is not a rule. The option to disable it it is not in fact a option. Options would mean choice of its usage....there is not choice...your with the system no matter what.

[ShadowHand2]

It shares the limitation with positive reputation. If you give pos or neg rep, it takes one use out of your daily pool.

All other restrictions (cooldown per poster, etc.) also apply.

I would say my personal average is under 1 neg rep per day and I think I tend to give neg rep easily compared to other users.

Do you not in fact have a to have a certian number of points to post a neg point? The fact is you DO. IF the system was fair and balanced....pos and neg points should be handed freely with no limitations.....hense flawed.

[Borror0]

And I'm not sure what the benefit of having it is, so why have something that can hurt people's feelings as part of the official system if it doesn't bring a significant benefit?

You are incorrectly assuming that all contribution is desired on these forums. You could not be further from the truth.

Turbine is not interested in our feedback in a "democratic" way. They have other ways of gathering data for that purpose.What they seek is individual capable of expressing their opinion in intelligent, civil manner. If an individual is disruptive the community in any way, it's beneficial to drive him away as it will lead to better threads, communication and feedback. Oh, and reduce the burden on the moderators possibly.

[Borror0]

IF the system was fair and balanced....pos and neg points should be handed freely with no limitations.....hense flawed.

No, there is no way to conclude that.

[ShadowHand2]

You are incorrectly assuming that all contribution is desired on these forums. You could not be further from the truth.

Turbine is not interested in our feedback in a "democratic" way. They have other ways of gathering data for that purpose.What they seek is individual capable of expressing their opinion in intelligent, civil manner. If an individual is disruptive the community in any way, it's beneficial to drive him away as it will lead to better threads, communication and feedback. Oh, and reduce the burden on the moderators possibly.

You are incorrect in assuming what is valuable to the community. If a person posts their opinions.....that is what it is. I do not think the MOB mentality benefits anyone. DDO is in fact letting others police their system who do not have to break real forum rules....just get enough points of people disagreeing with you and your out....How is that right? Only places in history show who used the mass or populace to police themselves.....but they were all defeated for their TYRANT ways. No Sir, police states are never welcome no matter the sugar coating you add to it.
Nor it a right of the masses to assume the power of others being removed as if they are a Dev themselves. That is impersonation.

[Ironstones]

I weep for the future.......

[Borror0]

If a person posts their opinions.....that is what it is.

Yeah, and some people's contribution is unwanted.

If someone never posts anything worth reading and derails thread, Turbine won't miss them and the community will only improve from their departure.

No Sir, police states are never welcome no matter the sugar coating you add to it.

We live in an oligarchy so, meh.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Yeah, and some people's contribution is unwanted.

If someone never posts anything worth reading and derails thread, Turbine won't miss them and the community will only improve from their departure.

We live in an oligarchy so, meh.

+1 for correctly using Oligarchy. That was the secret word of the day

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Your right, and the thing is it a tool that appears as if its a rule...it is not a rule. The option to disable it it is not in fact a option. Options would mean choice of its usage....there is not choice...your with the system no matter what.

If you are going to have a rep system it makes no sense to allow it to be disabled. The only purpose of the system is to help the playerbase highlight troublesome players so that the mods can keep an eye out and reduce overall strain on the forums. If you allowed the system to be turned off, the jerks would all turn it off and there would be no point in the system.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

You are incorrectly assuming that all contribution is desired on these forums. You could not be further from the truth.

Turbine is not interested in our feedback in a "democratic" way. They have other ways of gathering data for that purpose.What they seek is individual capable of expressing their opinion in intelligent, civil manner. If an individual is disruptive the community in any way, it's beneficial to drive him away as it will lead to better threads, communication and feedback. Oh, and reduce the burden on the moderators possibly.

That's true. But part of that civil manner is that we should each TRY to be nice to each other...and neg rep is a bit like posting a "you suck" reply in their thread, even if only they can see it. I see the value to the mods, and yet its mildly uncomfortable. I think they were smart to limit it to high rep posters, if you could give neg rep with no rep yourself this would turn ugly really fast.

You are incorrect in assuming what is valuable to the community. If a person posts their opinions.....that is what it is. I do not think the MOB mentality benefits anyone. DDO is in fact letting others police their system who do not have to break real forum rules....just get enough points of people disagreeing with you and your out....How is that right? Only places in history show who used the mass or populace to police themselves.....but they were all defeated for their TYRANT ways. No Sir, police states are never welcome no matter the sugar coating you add to it.
Nor it a right of the masses to assume the power of others being removed as if they are a Dev themselves. That is impersonation.

The devs aren't letting the players moderate, just flag for moderator attention. If a player is getting flagged that much, maybe they should be noticed (and in the past they would have been noticed by PMs to T&T anyway). In the end posts are rejected only by the devs and forum violation points are only given out by the devs, same as always.

The reality is if a player is only getting negative rep, they probably aren't contributing in a meaningful way to the community anyway. With maybe 6 people who can give negative rep and hundred if not thousands who can give positive, you really have to be a bit of a jerk I think to end up negative overall.

[Memnir]

You don't have to use it, and have the perfect right to opt out. Nobody is making you use this forum, and nobody is making you stay. If you don't like any rules or systems implemented by the owners of this website - stroll on down the internet to a place with rules and systems you find more suited to your tastes.

However, the owners of any public domain (physical or internet) have their rights protected by law to create their own expected code of conduct within their property. Free Speech is not an absolute, and many people forget that. If I were to go to a major league baseball game, I could stand up on my seat and shout "Bin Laden is right! Listen to him! Osama Bin Laden is right about everything!", and nothing I said is technically against free speech. I made no threats nor hate speech - yet I would probably be ejected for public disturbance. Same would apply if I did it on aisle-three of my local supermarket. However, if I shouted the same thing on the public sidewalk outside either of these venues - nothing could be done. This website is not the sidewalk. It is a privately owned and operated entity - and as such the owners can do with it as they like. They are under no obligation to explain anything to you, no matter how entitled you may feel. Putting in the Rep system does not violate any of your rights. And if that is not to your liking, you have the opt-out of hitting the sidewalk.

[ShadowHand2]

Yeah, and some people's contribution is unwanted.

"Unwanted" was not what the system said it was to be used for. Contribution of an oppose view? Are others opinions that go against a popular view not needed or in fact NOT wanted? What you are in a way saying is that you can nudge out others who you all deem not worth your idea of contribution.

If someone never posts anything worth reading and derails thread, Turbine won't miss them and the community will only improve from their departure.


If someone posts anything worth/ not worth reading for you there is a option that is free for everyone and does not instill fear of being disliked to the point of being forced out of the forums....its called post your own opinion or ignore them! Turbine will not miss them...do you speak for DDO enough to speak on their behalf? The community already has a system to remove unwanted....its called a report. What this system does is allow others not unlike yourself to circumvent real rules being broke to cut out any opposing views that go against your idea of what you like. Sorry, from what you deem as contributing.

We live in an oligarchy so, meh.

and when it comes that say in the future your contrbution is not longer needed....will you go on record to say it is just and fair then?

[Borror0]

But part of that civil manner is that we should each TRY to be nice to each other

On the Internet? Keep dreaming.

More importantly, it is false that everyone's opinion is desired. Let's face it, some people are incredibly stupid and reading their post is only a waste of time.

[Missing_Minds]

Shadow, you either use it or you don't. Display it or you don't.

If you don't want to bother with it, don't show and don't bother checking. It is that simple. Maturity goes on both ends of the tool/gimic.