Wiz vs Sorc

[dragonhighlord1]

If you have the cash then wizard is clearly better due to the fact you can buy mana pots even while in the middle of a quest, so the biggest reason to play a sorc over wizzy, imo, is spell points, now you can have the same or more by spending a little coin.

[Xionanx]

Hey everyone,

I'm new player however I have a nice 8 hr day at work that i can spend surfing these forums. I've noticed a lot of anti-wiz and all sorc if you want to play an arcane caster.

I was wondering if you all could enlighten me on the reason sorcs are better. I'm just looking for a small Pro/Con list for each class and why sorc is outright better.

Thanks

Since you are a new player I'll give you the advice I give everyone else who ever asks this question:

Wizards and Sorcerers are BOTH capable of doing the exact same job and doing the exact same amount of damage PER spell. The PER SPELL is extremely important to know.

Sorcerers cast thier spells faster then wizards, so if you were to pit the two against each other in a "head to head" DPS battle where they both spam cast DIRECT DAMAGE, a Sorcerer would do more damage faster. Again the DIRECT DAMAGE portion of the sentance is important to know.

Wizards get thier spells 1 level earlier then Sorcerers.

Wizards get meta magics feats for free every couple of levels.

Wizards can have 1 more spell per spell level in thier cast list.

Wizards can swap out spells in quests.

AoE Spells like Firewall and Acid Fog DO NOT STACK, so it doesn't matter how fast you can cast them. All you need to do is cast one and wait for it to tick off damage.

Now, once you KNOW.. and I mean truly KNOW the above, its not hard to classify the Wizard and Sorcerer into two little neat descriptions:

Wizard: Precision instrument caster capable of adapting dynamically to the quests.

Sorcerer: Brute force caster capable of casting spells more often.

Which is right for you? You said you are a NEW PLAYER. As a new player I can say with absolute certainty that you probably have no idea what spells you are going to need late game. I can also say you probably dont know how or what to use spells effectively in most of the games content. This is NOT an insult, its just a fact. Like stating: If you have never driven from Chicago to Columbia, you have NO idea what roads to take and where are good exits to stop for gas.

Understanding the above, it should be clear to you and anyone else giving you advice on what class to play that you should be playing a Wizard. Why? Because you can swap out spells while in a quest. You dont want to find yourself in a quest you are unfamiliar with, only to discover non of your spells work against the enemies you are facing. You also would probably like to opportunity to experiment with different spells to find new and interesting ways to use them. Wizards provide that much more readily then sorcerers.

Once you have played a wizard to cap and had time to find out FOR YOURSELF (not what others tell you) what spells are and are not effective for the way YOU PLAY. Then you should make a Sorceror to enjoy the extra spell points and faster casting.

Personally I dont play Sorcerers because I believe the extra spell points or faster casting speed dont outwiegh the extra feats and versatility of a Wizard. I have plenty of SP at cap, and SP pots are not that hard to come by so the extra SP is not even a issue as far as I'm concerned. The usefullness of casting faster is then play choice you must make.

[lexinator]

In my opinion Sorc is better for the increased Spell Points and for the casting speed.

Though wiz has the feats and versitility in spells I believe(personally) that the SP and casting speed outweighs that.

Go Drow Wiz or Warforged Wiz. As a pure Drow Wiz, you will have the highest spell DC in the game, and free feats that you can use on Meta's, which will in turn allow you to get spell focus feats, and the mana feats (because metas are free, so you use your regular feats on these).
You also get spells one level earlier and can have all spells!

As a War Wiz, you will be able to heal yourself and still have a higher spell DC than a Drow Sorc. (This of course assumes you ride Wiz all the way to 20).

At the current end game, my Sorc only has a 20% chance of landing spells, and some don't even work anymore (like Finger). I see Wizards landing spells a bit easier, but if I were you I would just roll a melee build and never look back.

[ddoer]

Sorc-
PROS
-Casts 2x faster ++
-Gets more SP each lvl, and gets double sp from an item. Imagine having a shroud sp item that gives 300 sp. You would get +600 sp!!!!

these two points need some elaboration:

• there are two aspects of casting time:
  1) the time it take to initialize/cast a spell
  2) cool down timer
  
  both are slower for wiz. the cool down timer is double for wiz. e.g. for FoD, it takes 3 seconds for a sorc to re-cast, and 6 seconds for a wiz.
  
  wiz could take quicken in one of its 5 extra feat slots, and invest 12 AP in improved quicken, and keep quicken always on. for a cap'd pure wiz, every spell costs 5 SP more, and the spell casting/initializing time will be the same as a sorc.
  
  wiz could cycle multiple spells and achieve an identical result as a sorc. e.g. when a sorc nukes with polar ray + coc, a wiz could cycle through polar ray, coc and otiluke; when a sorc uses fod, a wiz could cycle through fod and PK (or banishment)
  
• sorc does get double SP from item, but at the end, it get around 700SP more a wiz. The issue is whether the extra 700 SP will make a difference.
  
  The Wizardry VI doesn't stack with Archmagi, so it gives +150/+300 SP for Wiz/Soc only.

[OldAquarian]

Sooo....
If I take 19 Wiz/1 Sorc do my Wiz spells cast faster?
Would I get 2x from items?
Would it help close the SP gap?
What would I lose?

[GeneralDiomedes]

Why don't you necro a raid loot thread while you're at it?

[bobbryan2]

Either is fine. Just go WF.

[Xyfiel]

Sooo....
If I take 19 Wiz/1 Sorc do my Wiz spells cast faster?
Would I get 2x from items?
Would it help close the SP gap?
What would I lose?

Instead of directly answering that, let me help you figure it out. If taking 1 level of sorcerer gave almost all the benefits of sorc to a wizard, would there be any point to having the sorc class?

[aaronboldavian]

I fixed in the next post.

[aaronboldavian]

Sooo....
If I take 19 Wiz/1 Sorc do my Wiz spells cast faster?
Would I get 2x from items?
Would it help close the SP gap?
What would I lose?

Instead of directly answering that, let me help you figure it out. If taking 1 level of sorcerer gave almost all the benefits of sorc to a wizard, would there be any point to having the sorc class?

This question is very important(iam relative new) so some veteran or knowledge player could answer plz?

[Visty]

This question is very important(iam relative new) so some veteran or knowledge player could answer plz?

whatever you get as sorc, only affects youre sorc beeing
means you cast only your sorc spells faster and you get only 1/20th more sp from items

[Anderei]

Also to concur, for new players wizard is defintely the better choice as you can freely experiment with spells.
Also points that speak for the wizard not yet mentioned:
+ The are some dungeons that have a high int rune, you ganna need a wizard in the group for these (or a highint trapmonkey on some of em)
+ the wizard has the better past life feat, if you ever want to reincarnate it in a far future.

[Khazeous]

I couldn't imagine rolling a Sorcerer, frankly. Too many times I've ran into situations where my existing spell selection would've gotten us through, swapping one or two spells at a shrine made things a breeze.

Even something as simple as getting ooze puppet before entering sub and switching it out again before entering hound. Somebody always manages to aggro one of 'em living spells and getting people hurt or killed.

[Kalari]

oi vey...

Wizards:
1: slightly better dc capstone
2: versatile (can swap out for control undead for undead quests for example)
3: Faster leveling, best toon at level 5
4: Better feats, giving potential better d/c again, though not always
5. Many more skill points, though sorc can build for this. Makes them more survivable.
6. Multiclasses well into rogue, possible insightful reflex for even more survivability

Sorcerer:
1. Much better sp, though no room for mt feats
2. faster cooldown, though less spells to cycle through
3. Charisma stat means better UMD and possible force of personality uber save, though will saves good anyway
4. Nuker capstone, though bosses have so many hp endgame this is only good for trash mobs, which can be controlled anyway.

The winner: None. Build both.

thank you spiff you saved my fingers from a lot of typing

[Crystalizer]

i prefer wizards from a pure arcane power point of view
wizards have much more feats, so you can have better dc on several schools, dps without capstone is the same
sorcerers capstone gives some more dps, but arcane dps is not relevant at any time and you may regularly try to figure what you can give to a group after buffing and hasting and eventually repairing the wf berzerker
another important point is that warforged is now my only choice to create an arcane, reconstruction is just too good to avoid it, this is like having the heal spell plus arcane power
so if warforged is your choice, and i hope so for you, the charisma penalty to warforged starts to seriously hurt the dc of your arcane build, reducing seriously the versatility of sorcerers

so if you like a fun build to play you will like sorcerer cuz the cooldown and spellpoints bunch is very comfortable
and if you want to seriously play a versatile arcane build then wizard, especially considering the huge capstone, is a must have to push the limits you can reach

a point often in favor of sorcerers : the lower cooldown.. but if you have more spells then you can cast alternatively several spells, which makes cooldown pointless. the problem with wizards is that they require a much deeper knowledge of the game, mobs and spells to be efficient, but when you succeed to reach that amount of game knowledge wizards are much more powerful than sorcerers. and less fun, cuz you do need to think more.

[gwlech]

Well, it depends. For Grinding plat or something, i tend to like my sorcerer. For doing favor I would tend to go with a wiz/rogue splash for the versatility and traps.

The fact of the matter is that they both do a pretty decent job when geared out, and really once you get top gear, the spell point difference is all that much to keep you from being able to handle content.

For instance...I love my sorcerer, but as for lvl 6 spells, i have to choose between Greater Heroism or Flesh to Stone. Both are nice spells, and I know I can scroll cast GH, but for most of the content I run, I don't need to have flesh to stone, so its handier to have a longer and free Greater Heroism.

With a wizard, spells like this can easily be swapped, plus you are going to have alot more spells memorized at once, which would also virtually eliminate these certain situations.

Wizards also get alot more feats to work with, so they can potentially get higher DC's and spell pen.

[hermespan]

most spells are kinda useless anyway

Unless you know when to use them.

Grease/Sleetstorm are even useful for casting on chests :-p I call any spell that makes you laugh so hard your stomach hurts useful.

[EpiKagEMO]

A lot of people are forgetting about a wizard's prestige classes. AM gives more DC, which donate to Mass Holds for CC. PM gives them self heals, but if your wf, you can heal yourself on both classes.
Sorcs are better at dps, but blaster sorcs get plenty of hate and tend to be squishy.

[Morosy]

A lot of people are forgetting about a wizard's prestige classes. AM gives more DC, which donate to Mass Holds for CC. PM gives them self heals, but if your wf, you can heal yourself on both classes.
Sorcs are better at dps, but blaster sorcs get plenty of hate and tend to be squishy.

They didn't forget, they just couldn't tell the future back then. Always check post dates

[Saravis]

A lot of people are forgetting about a wizard's prestige classes.

Aye, to add to that Pale Masters, the other wizard prestige, have excellent self healing, spell like abilities that cost HP instead of SP (which has a negligible cost), and various buffs and immunities. As it stands now, I'd be inclined to recommend wizard over sorcerer, but there is word that Sorc PrE is coming out soon, so perhaps that recommendation will change. This by the way is coming from a sorcerer not a wizard.