Wiz vs Sorc

[bamcart4]

Hey everyone,

I'm new player however I have a nice 8 hr day at work that i can spend surfing these forums. I've noticed a lot of anti-wiz and all sorc if you want to play an arcane caster.

I was wondering if you all could enlighten me on the reason sorcs are better. I'm just looking for a small Pro/Con list for each class and why sorc is outright better.

Thanks

[QuintonReece]

In my opinion Sorc is better for the increased Spell Points and for the casting speed.

Though wiz has the feats and versitility in spells I believe(personally) that the SP and casting speed outweighs that.

[Visty]

wizards get more spells and more feats
sorcs get faster casting and more sp

more sp is good
faster casting is good
more feats is good
more spells doesnt matter as most spells are kinda useless anyway

so its wizard +- vs sorc ++

sorc wins

[Memnir]

Wizard:
Pros-
Can learn every spell in the game. (though many are useless or nearly so)
Gets free Metamagic Feats

Cons-
No special benifit from Spellpoint items
Slower casting speed
Slower timers on spells




Sorcerer:
Pros-
Double the benefit from Spellpoint items
Fast casting speed
Faster timers on all spells

Cons-
Limited spell set
Limited feats compared to Wizards


That is a very basic and bare-bones list of Pros/Cons for both. I have high level characters of both class, and both are fun and have aspects I really enjoy over the other class.

[Lymnus]

Sorc:
+Charisma as a casting stat.
+Charisma=High UMD. High Diplo. Ect.
+High SP
+Quicker casting time
~Force of Personality, allows for high will saves.
-Limited Spell List.
-Less skills than a Wizard (But. Skills aren't that important in DDO.)
-Less spells than a Wizard. (Wizard gets 5 spells for 1st level, for example. Sorcs get 4.)
-Unable to change spells.

Wizards:
+Able to switch about spells at will.
+More spells per level.
+Bonus Feats every 5th level (typically metamagic feats.)
~Insightful Reflexes, allows for Rogue synergy and high reflex saves.
~More skills. But, their use is questionable.
-Less SP
-Slower casting time.

[spifflove]

oi vey...

Wizards:
1: slightly better dc capstone
2: versatile (can swap out for control undead for undead quests for example)
3: Faster leveling, best toon at level 5
4: Better feats, giving potential better d/c again, though not always
5. Many more skill points, though sorc can build for this. Makes them more survivable.
6. Multiclasses well into rogue, possible insightful reflex for even more survivability

Sorcerer:
1. Much better sp, though no room for mt feats
2. faster cooldown, though less spells to cycle through
3. Charisma stat means better UMD and possible force of personality uber save, though will saves good anyway
4. Nuker capstone, though bosses have so many hp endgame this is only good for trash mobs, which can be controlled anyway.

The winner: None. Build both.

[Thrudh]

Sorcs get more Spell Points (at 16, a wiz will have around 1700, a sorc will have like 2600 - rough numbers)

Sorcs cast a lot faster, with quicker cool-downs....

Wizards get a free meta-magic feat at 1,5,10,15,20 - so that's 5 more feats than a sorc

Wizards get more spell slots

Wizards can swap out spells whenever they want, sorcs can only swap out 1 spell every 3 days...


Many power-gamers like sorcs because of the 50% (or so) more SP, and the quick cast times... Sorcs can still get almost all of the important feats, and they can get almost all the important spells... (They supplement their lack of spell slots by using scrolls)

New players should almost always go with wizards, so you can experiment with all the spells (you can change your spell selection in any tavern or at a rest shrine). Advanced player sorcs know exactly which spells they want and just use those for all situations...

I myself prefer verstatile characters... Even as a veteran player, I prefer wizards for the extra feats, the extra spells, and the ability to swap spells at will...

I change up my spell list all the time... it lets me tailor my spells to the quest.

[bamcart4]

In my opinion Sorc is better for the increased Spell Points and for the casting speed.

Though wiz has the feats and versitility in spells I believe(personally) that the SP and casting speed outweighs that.

Yeah, I've noticed all the lower lvl items that give +10 spell points items say doubled for sorcerer.

Thanks for the quick reply, next question: Are wizards so gimped it is advised not to play one over a sorcerer even when not thinking in the min/max mentality?

[Sweyn]

Sorc-
PROS
-Casts 2x faster ++
-Gets more SP each lvl, and gets double sp from an item. Imagine having a shroud sp item that gives 300 sp. You would get +600 sp!!!!
CONS
-Limited number of spells per lvl
-Unable to swap out spells (you can swap out 1 spell every 3 days but it costs alot)
-Limited feats

Wiz-
PROS
-Can have every single arcane spell in the spellbook.
-Can swap out as many spells as you want at anytime (in a tavern or at a rest shrine)
-Have the right spell for each quest
-More metamagic feats.
CONS
-Slower casting --
-Less SP

All in all, i believe the sorc is better, why? Because all the versatility of a wizard is not really needed. If you know what spells you want and are gonna use, than the spells a sorc has is all you need. On my sorc, i never really wish i could train an extra spell, id be fine without it. Sorcs are so much better for just nuking the c rap outta things. With the limited sp and slower casting, wizards cannot. The only time i think the swapping out spells is usefull for a wiz is to get important debuffs for a raid, thats it.

Also, with the high cha mod, sorcs can get a pretty high UMD. You will beable to cast heal scrolls, and rez, use resoration/greater resoration scrolls ect..

Go for a sorc, they are so much funner!

[Thrudh]

The winner: None. Build both.

Yep, Turbine did a pretty good job balancing these two... Some prefer sorcs, some prefer wizards, but neither is absolutely better than the other...

[Psyk0sisS]

Sorc:
+Charisma as a casting stat.
+Charisma=High UMD. High Diplo. Ect.
+High SP
+Quicker casting time
~Force of Personality, allows for high will saves.
-Limited Spell List.
-Less skills than a Wizard (But. Skills aren't that important in DDO.)
-Less spells than a Wizard. (Wizard gets 5 spells for 1st level, for example. Sorcs get 4.)
-Unable to change spells.

Wizards:
+Able to switch about spells at will.
+More spells per level.
+Bonus Feats every 5th level (typically metamagic feats.)
~Insightful Reflexes, allows for Rogue synergy and high reflex saves.
~More skills. But, their use is questionable.
-Less SP
-Slower casting time.

In Orange, is not exactly true. 1 Spell can be done every 3 days and costs money...but you get the point

*edit* Someone beat me to that point lol

[Sweyn]

Wow, i started to type me reply when there was only one post. Everone posted at the same time!!!!

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I have both a Sorc and Wiz. I like them both.

A year ago I'd say that the Sorc was the hands down winner.

However, as the number of spell choices slowly creap up, and as the game becomes more than nuking, Wizards definately shine in some places. There are just some situations where the sorc can't be as prepared as the Wiz. Even on the direct damage side, I can't for the life of me figure out how to fit the new Frost Lance spell into my sorc's list and it is a KILLER spell.

Overall, I still think a Sorc is more fun to play, but sometimes you need a Wiz... I think everyone should have one of each

[Thrudh]

Are wizards so gimped it is advised not to play one over a sorcerer even when not thinking in the min/max mentality?

Heh, not sure where you got that from the replies...

There are quests where I'd much rather take a wizard than a sorc... Bring a wizard along and you'll always have the spell you need...

[bamcart4]

Yep, Turbine did a pretty good job balancing these two... Some prefer sorcs, some prefer wizards, but neither is absolutely better than the other...

Thanks agian for the advice. You pretty much answered my next question. I have always been a fan of the wizard over the sorcerer and its good to see there is actual balance in this game.

Im still washing myself of the wow fever, havent played that in months and hoping DDO will become my new time sink.

[Lymnus]

In Orange, is not exactly true. 1 Spell can be done every 3 days and costs money...but you get the point

*edit* Someone beat me to that point lol

Shh. Don't let him know.



Edit: BTW. What level is Frost Lance?

[Thrudh]

However, as the number of spell choices slowly creap up, and as the game becomes more than nuking, Wizards definately shine in some places. There are just some situations where the sorc can't be as prepared as the Wiz.

Exactly... level 7 spells are a good example...

Wizards get 4 - can change at will
Sorcs get 2


Banishment (good only against banishable foes)
Finger of Death
Hold Person - Mass (good only against "person" monsters - like orcs, trogs, gnolls, etc.)
Sphere of Dancing
Protection From Elements - Mass
Symbol of Stunning
Waves of Exhaustion (can be scrolled repeatedly, but a wizard will get it to land quicker against a raid boss)

I find all these spells useful in certain situations, and I swap out as needed... A sorc has to pick two and stick with those two... Now, is Banishment needed to kick ass? Nope... So a sorc does just fine without it...

I sure like having it though in a dungeon with banishable foes (it's mass effect too), and then I swap it for something else when going to a different quest...

Prismatic Spray is coming in Mod 9 (luckily both wizards and sorcs get 1 more 7th spell slot by 20th level).

If the devs keep adding GOOD (key word) 7th-9th level spells, the wizard class will only grow in power...

[Leyoni]

As you can see, the opinions vary but are tilted towards sorcerer.

I play both types. Both of my wizards are warforged and meant to be healers for my kids (who both play warforged). One is pure wizard and the other is rogue splashed. Here the versatility is more important to me than the casting speed or the mana. Because we only group together I wanted to be able to tailor spells to the needs of the quest.

My sorcerers are used in general play. Although the spell selection is smaller and it is costly to change spells (you can do this every 3 days at a trainer if you have enough gold) experience has shown that you only need a limited number of spells to support the party. Both of my sorcerers are drow and my feat selections are geared towards spell penetration and maximizing damage.

In my case, the class choice was based on the character's purpose.

Hope that is helpful.

[bamcart4]

Thanks again for all the tips. I saved this so I can refer to it in the future.

[Monsoon28]

As you can see, the opinions vary but are tilted towards sorcerer.

Really? I don't see that.

Sorcs are better at DPS, and the quicker cool-down is great, but that's hardly the only thing of value.

In the end what matters is your play style. I've been in groups with 2 sorcs and you know what was missing? Buffs (and Debuffs). They lacked Greater Heroism, Mass Protection from Elements, Rage, etc... To some people that's not an issue to others it is.

I've gone into Shroud or other Raids and those wonderful Raid Bosses with their ten's of thousand's of Hit points, what's great against them? Polar Ray, Fire Wall, Acid Fog? Sure but well all know it doesn't matter who you are, your SP is gonna run out long before the Boss is dead if you spam your spells as quickly as the cool-down timers allow. So Debuffs and helping the other members of the party probably score higher in priority (like getting the caster to drop Mass Protection while the clerics heal in parts 4/5 of shroud can be possibly more helpful then spamming Polar Ray). You might be the Sorc that's specc'd out just right for that, but a Wizard will always be, especially if the Party Leader makes his wishes known before the start of the quest.

Really, play what you want and what best suits you. Maybe you love playing them both.

Wizards have ~37 spells by lvl16 any of which can be changed at a moments notice for the job at hand, plus 4 additional feats and allot more skills.

Sorc's have about 24-26 spells by lvl16, only of which one can be changed every three days. Plus you can drop those spells faster and recast them sooner and with the greater spell pool more often as well.

I like my Wizard, for me Versatility is a clear winner for my game style, others I know swear by their Sorcerors.