sorry to be the one who has to ask.

[neesletweed]

with the addition of dungeon alert how many of you will be rolling up new sneak toons?

I can see it now every lfm "need hide and move silently" cuz we like to zerg. Don't forget your invis pots.

[Vivanto]

I assume none. Saying da can be bypassed with sneaking is just plain BS, even from Tolero. You can't sneak effectively in 99% of dungeons as you have to open doors / kill x etc, best example is new monastery.

[Mhykke]

Zerging will be fine with the new changes to DA.

[Lithic]

True zergers only lose about 10% of their speed while killing everything. I doubt DA will have as much of an effect as all the doomsayers believe.

Note: all statistics in the above post are entirely fictional, and any relevance or resemblance to reality is purely coincidental.

[VKhaun]

Pushed me over the edge to start my rogue. Getting him to 8 or so, then I'll go back and attempt everything in order of level N/H/E from korthos on up. When I do my fighter I'd been contemplating pure vs 2rogue. Now I'll definitely add some intelligence and go with at least one rogue for full stealth skills.

I think you can get away without hide, through use of invisibility, but move silently might become a staple in all builds. IMHO the DA system going in should make move silently a class skill for caster types, though maybe it's not as important as I think it is. I'm no master of stealth mechanics.



People keep using this word 'zerg' to defend their liking the DA system, with posts about running through a quest with tons of things chasing you, but frankly any time you solo or take a group through a quest above your level, skipping a fight where enemies can't chase you for some reason is a SMART THING TO DO. There is no reason to blow SP's and materials on enemies you have no reason to kill. You don't have to zerg the whole quest or be any certain mentality of player to see this. You could be moving along slow as snails slithering uphill through molasses in late February, you still don't want to go down in some random pit and fight slimes who are purely there as a trap to begin with, or take on an Orc army at the bottom of a cavern that your favorite fantasy setting heroes would always run from or go around.

Take a second and think back to your favorite fantasy movies/books. How many times did huge guys in full armor sneak past people or pull a tactical retreat? Half of the Conan the Barbarian movie is him running from **** or sneaking.

[Meriadeuc]

with the addition of dungeon alert how many of you will be rolling up new sneak toons?

I can see it now every lfm "need hide and move silently" cuz we like to zerg. Don't forget your invis pots.

I don't particularly see stealth becoming significantly more valued in groups, but it is going to become more popular amoung those that solo. The old solo-caster trick of running past everything to an objective and then casting AOE spells to deal with whatever is still after you isn't going to work nearly as well any more.

[VKhaun]

You can't sneak effectively in 99% of dungeons as you have to open doors...

Only if you suck.

Create a distraction to do doors, levers, and things. Works great.

[MrCow]

Considering the mechanics of invisibility also changed (either it now grants a circumstance bonus to hide or follows different mechanics, I was running through the Sands of Menechtarun invisible and undetected by gnolls/mephits/fire elementals with a hide of 3) I don't foresee a heavy increase to builds taking stealth-based skills. You may see more arcanes requested to have scrolls of mass invisibility though.

[Vivanto]

Only if you suck.

Create a distraction to do doors, levers, and things. Works great.

You mean summon a pet to kill all the elite monks in mona? Or just all the red named mobs in pretty much any quest where it's compulsory?

[VKhaun]

You mean summon a pet to kill all the elite monks in mona? Or just all the red named mobs in pretty much any quest where it's compulsory?

Go back and read what I replied to.
Key words: 99%.

[Vivanto]

Go back and read what I replied to.
Key words: 99%.

Go back and read what I wrote in context of my first post, don't just quote the beneficial parts for you.

[SableShadow]

You mean summon a pet to kill all the elite monks in mona?

Gonna have to kill everything to drop the red barriers anyway.

Kobold, bypassing everything w/o invis: Red skull locked in at the jump point.

Kobold, invis to and from the first two levers: Green skull at the jump point, fading to none in a few seconds.

The folks foaming at the mouth about DA "ending zerging" are wrong on a lot of counts.

Edit: Though, I daresay I've an excuse for "stealth only" lfms now...I'd just be bending the truth a little to say "DA made meh do it!". X-D

[bobbryan2]

DA won't halt zerging in the least. It just makes it a little more annoying because there's yet another consideration. It's annoying and anti-fun... it's definately not gonna break people's playstyles.

Most people are just upset cuz it's over the top... not cuz they can't zerg anymore.

[VKhaun]

Go back and read what I wrote in context of my first post, don't just quote the beneficial parts for you.

'beneficial to me'?
Stop being stupid.
You said 99% of quests had an issue with stealth.
That's what I replied to.
That's what is still a stupid statement.
That's what you're running from being wrong about.
That's what you're still claiming in a thread of people talking how great invisibility is.
The end.

[VKhaun]

Most people are just upset cuz it's over the top... not cuz they can't zerg anymore.

I'm upset about it from the perspective of my customer, not my character. It's a server stability issue that should be a burden on turbine. I don't care if all I have to do is buy scrolls or load an extra spell. Add two intelligence for a skill and move at reduced speed. I don't care if it's the greatest thing ever. It's still putting turbines work I pay $15/mo for back on me. They've spent their dev time figuring out a way to NOT improve servers.

This bothers me.
Though I recognize it is my opinion, and obviously not a common one.

[Vivanto]

You said 99% of quests had an issue with stealth.

Wrong, I said 99% of quests had issue because you need to open door/levers and kill stuff. Seems you have a problem understanding logical operators. You just stated misleading tactics to solve that. Simple fact, dungeons aren't designed to use stealth, 99% of them are in fact planned to hinder stealthy builds by requiring the above mentioned things and dungeon layout is another factor.

I'll just ignore the rest of your post as that is just inconsistent utterly useless rambling, personal attacks, and pathetic attempts at bellittling me.

[MrCow]

Simple fact, dungeons aren't designed to use stealth

While a large amount of dungeons may not be passed purely using stealth, a fairly sizable chunk of many dungeons can be bypassed through stealth or other forms of non-detection.

[VKhaun]

I assume none. Saying da can be bypassed with sneaking is just plain BS, even from Tolero. You can't sneak effectively in 99% of dungeons as you have to open doors / kill x etc, best example is new monastery.

Wrong, I said 99% of quests had issue because you need to open door/levers and kill stuff. Seems you have a problem understanding logical operators. You just stated misleading tactics to solve that. Simple fact, dungeons aren't designed to use stealth, 99% of them are in fact planned to hinder stealthy builds by requiring the above mentioned things and dungeon layout is another factor.

I'll just ignore the rest of your post as that is just inconsistent utterly useless rambling, personal attacks, and pathetic attempts at bellittling me.

I don't think I actually need to type anything to prove you wrong.
Arguing has never been this easy.

[Vivanto]

While a large amount of dungeons may not be passed purely using stealth, a fairly sizable chunk of many dungeons can be bypassed through stealth or other forms of non-detection.

And that was exactly my point... Couldy be my mistake tough as whenever the topic is about stealth, I instinctly think of rogues and finishing a quest purely with stealth.

[Noctus]

Only if you suck.

Stop being stupid.

Polite as ever.
Always trying to argue in a nice and civilized manner about divergences in opinions. Never would a prototypical gentleman such as VKhaun resort to words of insult and offensive one-liners, like a spoiled 13 year old throwing a tantrum about not getting the new "Super Killfighter 2" for his X-Box.

No, not VKhaun.
Always the sole voice of moderation in a Forum filled with rude, arrogant persons who only have barely a clue about what they are actually posting about. Since he blessed us with his presence the atmosphere here really has become much more friendly and helpfull.

Boy, am i glad that he is here now.