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  1. #1
    Community Member Yargore's Avatar
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    Default Yarhovah - the obvious class split

    Class: Ranger 18 / monk 1 / rogue 1
    Race: Human
    Allignment: Lawful Neutral.

    Starting Stats:
    Str 16
    Dex 16
    Con 12
    Int 8
    Wis 15
    Cha 8

    Ending Stats:
    Str 32 (16 base + 5 level + 6 item + 3 tome + 2 rams )
    Dex 28 (16 base + 3 tome + 6 item + 2 ranger enhancement +1 enhancement)
    Con 20 (12 base + 2 tome + 6 item)
    Int 10 (8 base + 2 tome)
    Wis 26 (15 base +2 tome + 6 item +2 shroud weapon +1 enhancement)
    Cha 8 8 base

    Obviously not all tomes are needed. With human adaptability you can easily make sure you got even stats depending on the tomes you get.

    Final AC Breakdown with icy raiment:
    10 Base
    9 dex
    8 wisdom
    8 armor
    4 icy raiment
    5 deflection
    1 Dodge
    3 Chattering Ring
    4 insight
    1 Ritual
    4 tempest shield bonus
    3 Favored
    (2 defensive fighting)
    ----------------
    60 (62) - unbuffed
    ----------------
    5 barkskin
    1 haste
    2 recitation
    ----------------
    68 (70) - self buffed
    ----------------
    6 aura
    4 bard song
    ----------------
    78 (80) with party buffs

    And you can also boost for 4 more AC.

    Final AC Breakdown with DT robe:
    10 Base
    9 dex
    8 wisdom
    6 armor
    2 chaos garde
    5 deflection
    1 Dodge
    3 Chattering Ring
    4 insight
    1 Ritual
    4 tempest shield bonus
    3 Favored
    (2 defensive fighting)
    ----------------
    56 (58) - unbuffed
    ----------------
    5 barkskin
    1 haste
    2 recitation
    ----------------
    64 (66) - self buffed
    ----------------
    6 aura
    4 bard song
    ----------------
    74 (76) with party buffs

    And you can also boost for 4 more AC.



    Enhancements
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability I: Dexterity
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability II: Wisdom
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

    Feats:
    1.Dodge
    1 (human).Mobility
    2 (Monk). Power attack
    3.Khopesh
    6.Spring attack
    9.Oversized two weapon fighting
    12.Improved critical
    15.Maximize Spell (Might swap to empower healing if I overheal too much)
    18.Toughness

    Favored Enemies: (number = the level you get it)
    3. Giant
    7. Undead
    12. Evil outsiders
    17. Elementals
    Swap giant for constructs when you start running The Shroud.

    Skill Points:
    Take concentration, balance and umd. Spare points in jump.

    UMD:
    23 ranks
    3 cha
    6 item
    5 titan gloves
    4 GH
    2 head
    (4 boost)
    ------------
    43(47)

    Leveling order:
    Take rogue at level 1, monk at level 2 and rest ranger.

    Why this build is superior to The Exploiter
    The starting stats:
    The exploiter spent 4 point in int that I have used in dex and wisdom for higher AC potential. It can esily be translated into 2 higher AC.
    The exploiter reaches 24 wisdom and 26 dex, my build reaches 26 wisdom and 28 dex.

    He also started with lower str, which makes him more dependant on human adabtability : Str to keep up with the DPS.
    His 20 extra HP is moot, even with that he have lower survivability.

    Feats:
    He went for the CE trap while I went for a metamagic for CSW.
    CE gives 5 AC while defensive fighting(DeF from now on) gives 2 AC so CE basicly gives 3 AC.
    Now remember that with the int spent to get CE I got 2 AC, that means that with CE The Exploiter is 1 AC ahead, and without CE my build is 2 AC ahead.
    But, I also got concentration and maximized CSW along with 30% human imp recovery and ranger devotion IV for quick and powerful healing.
    That trumphs the extra survivability gained by 1 higher AC in CE IMO.
    If you disagree then just swap maximized to two weapon defense and you will be at equal AC in CE and you will be 3 AC over the exploiter in PA.

    Most of us have realised the sweetness of DPS by now, so PA is really the prefered stance.

    Skills:
    The exploiter have trapskills, but lacks concentration.
    Trapskills are useless in the eyes of a decent powergamer.

    Self preservation:
    While The Exploiter is dependant on healscrolls for selfhealing, my build got CSW that heals me for:
    28.5*1.4*1.3*2=104 without a devotion IV item and 156 with one.
    I don't have to severly cripply my DPS while healing, at worst I'll have to equip a devotion ring, while the exploiter must remove his weapon to cast a slow and interuptable heal that heals less than my CSW.
    With grazing hits, self healing and concentration will become much more important.

    Note:
    With icy I get higher AC, but I lose some good stuff from the DT armor. It's been talk about mobs tohit being lowered in mod 9 because of grazing hits so DT might be enough. If not? well, I'll just use icy.
    Last edited by Tolero; 03-10-2011 at 08:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Runningaway's Avatar
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    Isn't this the same as your "god" build you posted a few months ago?
    Ghallanda.
    Main Alts: Fubsy, Bombshell, Anaphylactic, Chargino

  3. #3
    Community Member Yargore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runningaway View Post
    Isn't this the same as your "god" build you posted a few months ago?
    Yes, but I can't edit that thread.

    It have come to my knowledge that people still believe that The Exploiter is a better build and that I have never been able to prove otherwise.
    Instead of draging up old posts I just made a new comparison

  4. #4
    Community Member Riorik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yargore View Post
    It have come to my knowledge that people still believe that The Exploiter is a better build and that I have never been able to prove otherwise.
    Not a criticism of your build, but I believe the real situation to be different.
    It's not that you have been unable to "prove" yours is better, it's that you have been unable to "convince" others that yours is better.

    Prove implies a black & white comparison...a lot like how 1 is always 1.

    Builds are about perceptions and personal preference and what an individual values. Regardless of what you think, If I feel the skills are worth more to me...your can't force me or other players to accept your view.

    On your build...I think it is merely different and a variant of the Exploiter, not something new. This is my opinion and not really subject to "failing" as the two of you usually assert of anybody with an opinion that differs.
    Ghallanda ReRolled Naxy-Transil-Kottol-Nax-Riorsil-Riorik-Kaol

  5. #5
    Community Member Yargore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riorik View Post
    Builds are about perceptions and personal preference and what an individual values. Regardless of what you think, If I feel the skills are worth more to me...your can't force me or other players to accept your view.
    Not entirely true. Sure, you can have whatever you want for flavor, but when it comes to optimizing you have to consider the metagame and different skills values there from an objective point of view.

  6. #6
    Community Member Riorik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yargore View Post
    Not entirely true. Sure, you can have whatever you want for flavor, but when it comes to optimizing you have to consider the metagame and different skills values there from an objective point of view.
    Remember, this is about convincing me to accept your assumptions, not proof or your version of "objective".


    Why not? Because the intent behind the story is that you're creating a fallacious argument that justifies itself. What you're really saying is this:

    A) Everyone should accept objective data as true
    B) All my observations are objective
    Implies
    C) You should accept all my observations as true

    I think it's fair to challenge both part A & part B.

    More relevantly:

    Is there any use whatsoever for Disable Device in DDO?
    If yes, is there anything you can get from DD that you can get no other way?
    (for example, quest experience bonus)

    No other questions are needed at this point. I don't even have to argue the value of the quest experience bonus. Whether or not you're capped (and can no longer gain experience) is irrelevant. It's not even relevant that that there aren't any critical traps to disable in the current end game.

    And again, that's not something you can argue because it's my SUBJECTIVE opinion just like it would be your SUBJECTIVE opinion that it's not needed or worthwhile.

    Another example. An objective comparison is whether 5 is greater than 2. A subjective comparison is whether the numbers look better in this light on a certain type of paper as RED, BLUE or BLACK.
    Ghallanda ReRolled Naxy-Transil-Kottol-Nax-Riorsil-Riorik-Kaol

  7. #7
    Community Member Zippo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riorik View Post
    Not a criticism of your build, but I believe the real situation to be different.
    It's not that you have been unable to "prove" yours is better, it's that you have been unable to "convince" others that yours is better.

    Prove implies a black & white comparison...a lot like how 1 is always 1.

    Builds are about perceptions and personal preference and what an individual values. Regardless of what you think, If I feel the skills are worth more to me...your can't force me or other players to accept your view.

    On your build...I think it is merely different and a variant of the Exploiter, not something new. This is my opinion and not really subject to "failing" as the two of you usually assert of anybody with an opinion that differs.

    That one got you +1 rep from me. Well put
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
    Hi welcome!

    (I wonder if I'll get banned for this?)

  8. #8
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    Dont like it.

    But i didnt like the exploiter either.. thats just my bias against all 18/1/1 rangers...

    Anyway... I dont see CE as a "trap" but more of an alternative route.. It more then just 1 AC since the exploiter went with trap skills and made use of the extra skill points.

    Kudos for using Ranger devotion Did the same thing on my Elf 12ranger/2fighter/2monk, went with empower healing though as i use lorriks neclace. Heals with cure moderate for 19*1.4*1.4*1.5 ~= 56 @ 28 sp

    Concentration is nice, but with low con you likely wont pass many checks in combat without a concentration item on.

  9. #9
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Very original build. 2 thumbs up!

  10. 07-21-2009, 12:32 PM


  11. 07-22-2009, 09:14 AM


  12. #12
    Community Member Absolute-Omniscience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post

    Concentration is nice, but with low con you likely wont pass many checks in combat without a concentration item on.
    I think mod-high concentration will be very nice for grazing hits.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Yargore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    Dont like it.

    But i didnt like the exploiter either.. thats just my bias against all 18/1/1 rangers...

    Anyway... I dont see CE as a "trap" but more of an alternative route.. It more then just 1 AC since the exploiter went with trap skills and made use of the extra skill points.

    Kudos for using Ranger devotion Did the same thing on my Elf 12ranger/2fighter/2monk, went with empower healing though as i use lorriks neclace. Heals with cure moderate for 19*1.4*1.4*1.5 ~= 56 @ 28 sp
    Hehe.

    CE is a trap in the sense that people believe that it's a must-have for high AC rangers.

    Trapskills? Meh, those just slow you down!

    Yeh, rangers healing is underestimated. A maximized (or empowered healing) CSW with the enhancements and a devotion item is better than heal scrolls. Much quicker and you don't have to lose your DPS while healing.

    This was argued against in the old thread:P Let's see what they'll bring up this time

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    Concentration is nice, but with low con you likely wont pass many checks in combat without a concentration item on.
    I'm sure that it will be nice to have against grazing hits.

  14. #14
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yargore View Post
    CE is a trap in the sense that people believe that it's a must-have for high AC rangers.
    Definatly not. I didnt take it on mine either, im only hitting mid 50s to low 60s self buffed though (went the PA on, DT armor w/ destruction route )
    CE is however needed for max AC rangers (those gimpy dex based freaks )

    Quote Originally Posted by Yargore View Post
    I'm sure that it will be nice to have against grazing hits.
    Grazing hits yes... but in no way is this build hitting "invincible ac"...

  15. #15
    Community Member Absolute-Omniscience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    Grazing hits yes... but in no way is this build hitting "invincible ac"...
    I dunno really about mod 9. But as it is now 68 selfbuffed is pretty much invincible ac.
    Either way, with the concentration he will maybe save half the rolls without item, and all the grazing hits. I think it's a pretty nice skill nontheless.
    Last edited by Absolute-Omniscience; 07-21-2009 at 10:34 AM.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Comfortably's Avatar
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    What are you planning on doing for Grazing Blows? I don't mean the self healing. Let me rephrase, what are you going to do to soak up all of the damage from Grazing Blows?
    Jeets said he wouldn't tell Turbine. ;(

  17. #17
    Community Member Thorzian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post


    Grazing hits yes... but in no way is this build hitting "invincible ac"...
    invincible ac? um... bad guys don't roll 20's anymore?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    We should make our feedback as honest as possible so that when it is absolutely ignored by Turbine we will get bonus points on the scoreboard of life.

  18. #18
    Community Member Thucydides04's Avatar
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    Why not switch and make the wis 14 and put 2 point into int so you can get CE instead of that gimped defensive fighting stance? Or, better yet make an elf and free up 2 points at creation when you put dex at 16 and put them into int. Skill points are needed with this build and 23 more isn't going to hurt. Also, why monk at level 2? Why not wait until 11 so you have evasion for GH (namely the crucible swim)? That extra feat isn't going anywhere.

  19. #19
    Community Member Absolute-Omniscience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thucydides04 View Post
    Why not switch and make the wis 14 and put 2 point into int so you can get CE instead of that gimped defensive fighting stance? Or, better yet make an elf and free up 2 points at creation when you put dex at 16 and put them into int. Skill points are needed with this build and 23 more isn't going to hurt. Also, why monk at level 2? Why not wait until 11 so you have evasion for GH (namely the crucible swim)? That extra feat isn't going anywhere.
    Going 12 wisdom would lower the PA AC by 1, for a gain of 2 ac in defensive mode. As this build will most probably be using PA all the time anyways, it wont really be worth it.

    Elf would reduce the flexablity with the stat points, it would also cripple the selfhealing and max hitpoints unless you took those 2 spare points in con, for a non-gain senario.
    Also recall that Human gives him the human versitility boost for +4 UMD or +4 ac whenever either is needed.

    The Elf version would also have to gimp the dps with rapiers instead of khopeshes.

    Monk at 11 could work, However it matters little in the crucible, not with our skill. (not to brag or anything, it's just that we've done the quests on elite with 100 hp bards (no evasion) (yes, we did the swim and the reflex room))
    However monk at 2'nd level is great for the saves, everyone hates those holds when rushing the low levels.
    Last edited by Absolute-Omniscience; 07-21-2009 at 10:37 AM.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Thucydides04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    Going 12 wisdom would lower the PA AC by 1, for a gain of 2 ac in defensive mode. As this build will most probably be using PA all the time anyways, it wont really be worth it.

    I said take a staring wisdom 0f 14 (freeing up 2 abilitiy points), and place them into int, might as well bank on a +3 tome here too since you seem to elsewhere. Then you will have a 10 int and get more skill points (4+19 = 23).

    Elf would reduce the flexablity with the stat points, it would also cripple the selfhealing and max hitpoints unless you took those 2 spare points in con, for a non-gain senario.

    No, that is incorrect. For an elf to have a 16 dex requires 6 ability points, a human requires 10 (6 pts from 8 -14 and 4 more from 14-16), Furthermore you get two enhancement points in dex, which would allow you to eat a +4 tome adding 1 more to your ac and reflex save. You could couple that with waiting on a +4 tome for wis and lose that enhancement allowing you to have more APs to spend elsewear while keeping wis at 26

    Also recall that Human gives him the human versitility boost for +4 UMD or +4 ac whenever either is needed.

    Ranger skill boost does the umd, but yes the human will give him situtional AC improvements, the build I suppose would have to forego this

    The Elf version would also have to gimp the dps with rapiers instead of khopeshes.

    Since the OP stated that trapskills are "useless to a power-gamer" why not take a level of fighter to get full ranks of intimidate, make up the extra feat and take khops, add 1 to BAB, 4 hp and a toughness ehancement (14 total), and get the fighter haste boost and the ac boost to make up for 2 lost from the human versatility. Yeah, you will give up 11 umd ranks but you will still have a 36 umd which is 100% on raise scrolls and 90% on shield wands(10).

    Monk at 11 could work, However it matters little in the crucible, not with our skill. (not to brag or anything, it's just that we've done the quests on elite with 100 hp bards (no evasion) (yes, we did the swim and the reflex room))
    However monk at 2'nd level is great for the saves, everyone hates those holds when rushing the low levels.
    Okay sounds good if that is the way you prefer, it comes out the same at cap either way
    Last edited by Thucydides04; 07-22-2009 at 02:35 PM.

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