Yarhovah - the obvious class split

[Yargore]

Class: Ranger 18 / monk 1 / rogue 1
Race: Human
Allignment: Lawful Neutral.

Starting Stats:
Str 16
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 15
Cha 8

Ending Stats:
Str 32 (16 base + 5 level + 6 item + 3 tome + 2 rams )
Dex 28 (16 base + 3 tome + 6 item + 2 ranger enhancement +1 enhancement)
Con 20 (12 base + 2 tome + 6 item)
Int 10 (8 base + 2 tome)
Wis 26 (15 base +2 tome + 6 item +2 shroud weapon +1 enhancement)
Cha 8 8 base

Obviously not all tomes are needed. With human adaptability you can easily make sure you got even stats depending on the tomes you get.

Final AC Breakdown with icy raiment:
10 Base
9 dex
8 wisdom
8 armor
4 icy raiment
5 deflection
1 Dodge
3 Chattering Ring
4 insight
1 Ritual
4 tempest shield bonus
3 Favored
(2 defensive fighting)
----------------
60 (62) - unbuffed
----------------
5 barkskin
1 haste
2 recitation
----------------
68 (70) - self buffed
----------------
6 aura
4 bard song
----------------
78 (80) with party buffs

And you can also boost for 4 more AC.

Final AC Breakdown with DT robe:
10 Base
9 dex
8 wisdom
6 armor
2 chaos garde
5 deflection
1 Dodge
3 Chattering Ring
4 insight
1 Ritual
4 tempest shield bonus
3 Favored
(2 defensive fighting)
----------------
56 (58) - unbuffed
----------------
5 barkskin
1 haste
2 recitation
----------------
64 (66) - self buffed
----------------
6 aura
4 bard song
----------------
74 (76) with party buffs

And you can also boost for 4 more AC.



Enhancements
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability I: Dexterity
Enhancement: Human Adaptability II: Wisdom
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

Feats:
1.Dodge
1 (human).Mobility
2 (Monk). Power attack
3.Khopesh
6.Spring attack
9.Oversized two weapon fighting
12.Improved critical
15.Maximize Spell (Might swap to empower healing if I overheal too much)
18.Toughness

Favored Enemies: (number = the level you get it)
3. Giant
7. Undead
12. Evil outsiders
17. Elementals
Swap giant for constructs when you start running The Shroud.

Skill Points:
Take concentration, balance and umd. Spare points in jump.

UMD:
23 ranks
3 cha
6 item
5 titan gloves
4 GH
2 head
(4 boost)
------------
43(47)

Leveling order:
Take rogue at level 1, monk at level 2 and rest ranger.

Why this build is superior to The Exploiter
The starting stats:
The exploiter spent 4 point in int that I have used in dex and wisdom for higher AC potential. It can esily be translated into 2 higher AC.
The exploiter reaches 24 wisdom and 26 dex, my build reaches 26 wisdom and 28 dex.

He also started with lower str, which makes him more dependant on human adabtability : Str to keep up with the DPS.
His 20 extra HP is moot, even with that he have lower survivability.

Feats:
He went for the CE trap while I went for a metamagic for CSW.
CE gives 5 AC while defensive fighting(DeF from now on) gives 2 AC so CE basicly gives 3 AC.
Now remember that with the int spent to get CE I got 2 AC, that means that with CE The Exploiter is 1 AC ahead, and without CE my build is 2 AC ahead.
But, I also got concentration and maximized CSW along with 30% human imp recovery and ranger devotion IV for quick and powerful healing.
That trumphs the extra survivability gained by 1 higher AC in CE IMO.
If you disagree then just swap maximized to two weapon defense and you will be at equal AC in CE and you will be 3 AC over the exploiter in PA.

Most of us have realised the sweetness of DPS by now, so PA is really the prefered stance.

Skills:
The exploiter have trapskills, but lacks concentration.
Trapskills are useless in the eyes of a decent powergamer.

Self preservation:
While The Exploiter is dependant on healscrolls for selfhealing, my build got CSW that heals me for:
28.5*1.4*1.3*2=104 without a devotion IV item and 156 with one.
I don't have to severly cripply my DPS while healing, at worst I'll have to equip a devotion ring, while the exploiter must remove his weapon to cast a slow and interuptable heal that heals less than my CSW.
With grazing hits, self healing and concentration will become much more important.

Note:
With icy I get higher AC, but I lose some good stuff from the DT armor. It's been talk about mobs tohit being lowered in mod 9 because of grazing hits so DT might be enough. If not? well, I'll just use icy.

[Runningaway]

Isn't this the same as your "god" build you posted a few months ago?

[Yargore]

Isn't this the same as your "god" build you posted a few months ago?

Yes, but I can't edit that thread.

It have come to my knowledge that people still believe that The Exploiter is a better build and that I have never been able to prove otherwise.
Instead of draging up old posts I just made a new comparison

[Monkey_Archer]

Dont like it.

But i didnt like the exploiter either.. thats just my bias against all 18/1/1 rangers...

Anyway... I dont see CE as a "trap" but more of an alternative route.. It more then just 1 AC since the exploiter went with trap skills and made use of the extra skill points.

Kudos for using Ranger devotion Did the same thing on my Elf 12ranger/2fighter/2monk, went with empower healing though as i use lorriks neclace. Heals with cure moderate for 19*1.4*1.4*1.5 ~= 56 @ 28 sp

Concentration is nice, but with low con you likely wont pass many checks in combat without a concentration item on.

[Aerendil]

Very original build. 2 thumbs up!

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Concentration is nice, but with low con you likely wont pass many checks in combat without a concentration item on.

I think mod-high concentration will be very nice for grazing hits.

[Yargore]

Dont like it.

But i didnt like the exploiter either.. thats just my bias against all 18/1/1 rangers...

Anyway... I dont see CE as a "trap" but more of an alternative route.. It more then just 1 AC since the exploiter went with trap skills and made use of the extra skill points.

Kudos for using Ranger devotion Did the same thing on my Elf 12ranger/2fighter/2monk, went with empower healing though as i use lorriks neclace. Heals with cure moderate for 19*1.4*1.4*1.5 ~= 56 @ 28 sp

Hehe.

CE is a trap in the sense that people believe that it's a must-have for high AC rangers.

Trapskills? Meh, those just slow you down!

Yeh, rangers healing is underestimated. A maximized (or empowered healing) CSW with the enhancements and a devotion item is better than heal scrolls. Much quicker and you don't have to lose your DPS while healing.

This was argued against in the old thread:P Let's see what they'll bring up this time

Concentration is nice, but with low con you likely wont pass many checks in combat without a concentration item on.

I'm sure that it will be nice to have against grazing hits.

[Monkey_Archer]

CE is a trap in the sense that people believe that it's a must-have for high AC rangers.

Definatly not. I didnt take it on mine either, im only hitting mid 50s to low 60s self buffed though (went the PA on, DT armor w/ destruction route )
CE is however needed for max AC rangers (those gimpy dex based freaks )

I'm sure that it will be nice to have against grazing hits.

Grazing hits yes... but in no way is this build hitting "invincible ac"...

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Grazing hits yes... but in no way is this build hitting "invincible ac"...

I dunno really about mod 9. But as it is now 68 selfbuffed is pretty much invincible ac.
Either way, with the concentration he will maybe save half the rolls without item, and all the grazing hits. I think it's a pretty nice skill nontheless.

[Thucydides04]

Why not switch and make the wis 14 and put 2 point into int so you can get CE instead of that gimped defensive fighting stance? Or, better yet make an elf and free up 2 points at creation when you put dex at 16 and put them into int. Skill points are needed with this build and 23 more isn't going to hurt. Also, why monk at level 2? Why not wait until 11 so you have evasion for GH (namely the crucible swim)? That extra feat isn't going anywhere.

[Comfortably]

What are you planning on doing for Grazing Blows? I don't mean the self healing. Let me rephrase, what are you going to do to soak up all of the damage from Grazing Blows?

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Why not switch and make the wis 14 and put 2 point into int so you can get CE instead of that gimped defensive fighting stance? Or, better yet make an elf and free up 2 points at creation when you put dex at 16 and put them into int. Skill points are needed with this build and 23 more isn't going to hurt. Also, why monk at level 2? Why not wait until 11 so you have evasion for GH (namely the crucible swim)? That extra feat isn't going anywhere.

Going 12 wisdom would lower the PA AC by 1, for a gain of 2 ac in defensive mode. As this build will most probably be using PA all the time anyways, it wont really be worth it.

Elf would reduce the flexablity with the stat points, it would also cripple the selfhealing and max hitpoints unless you took those 2 spare points in con, for a non-gain senario.
Also recall that Human gives him the human versitility boost for +4 UMD or +4 ac whenever either is needed.

The Elf version would also have to gimp the dps with rapiers instead of khopeshes.

Monk at 11 could work, However it matters little in the crucible, not with our skill. (not to brag or anything, it's just that we've done the quests on elite with 100 hp bards (no evasion) (yes, we did the swim and the reflex room))
However monk at 2'nd level is great for the saves, everyone hates those holds when rushing the low levels.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

What are you planning on doing for Grazing Blows? I don't mean the self healing. Let me rephrase, what are you going to do to soak up all of the damage from Grazing Blows?

On normal most of em will be soaked by the stoneskins, as they don't get grazings that often on normal so the stoneskins will last more than long enough.
On hard and elite it will be more of a problem, however I do not think it will be that bad. As 10 dr stoneskin clickies are common and lasts more than long enough, even with 0 ac builds in the current endgame.

He will ofcourse die some damage from the Orthorns and other hard mobs grazings. But I still think it'll work smoothly with that great selfhealing.

[Yargore]

Why not switch and make the wis 14 and put 2 point into int so you can get CE instead of that gimped defensive fighting stance? Or, better yet make an elf and free up 2 points at creation when you put dex at 16 and put them into int. Skill points are needed with this build and 23 more isn't going to hurt. Also, why monk at level 2? Why not wait until 11 so you have evasion for GH (namely the crucible swim)? That extra feat isn't going anywhere.

Why would I do that? I don't have a feat to waste on CE.
Didn't you read whole thread? CE is not worth it. I will be using PA alot more than DeF, as DPS is king.

If I went elf I would lose a feat, or have to go with rapiers. So I would end up gimping some aspect of the build.

More skill points is not needed. Trapskills are not worth it.

Monk at level 2 for better saves at low levels. It's better than getting evasion one level sooner.
I would also not be able to have PA, tempest, OTWF and khopesh at level 9 if I took the monk level at 11.

[Yargore]

What are you planning on doing for Grazing Blows? I don't mean the self healing. Let me rephrase, what are you going to do to soak up all of the damage from Grazing Blows?

Stoneskin.

[TechNoFear]

This is a Mod9 high AC, mid HP character with no grazing hit protection.
Have you tried this build to see if the Maximized CSW approach is actually viable in game?


Some errors;
Paladin aura does not get to 6 yet, there is no +5 Bulwark of Good in beta.

His 20 extra HP is moot, even with that he have lower survivability.

It is more than 20 HP as you don't qualify, and can't afford, Racial Toughness 3 because you have spent 22 on healing enhancements.

CE gives 5 AC while defensive fighting (DeF from now on) gives 2 AC so CE basicly gives 3 AC.

Sure

Now remember that with the int spent to get CE I got 2 AC,

You also use a +3 Dex tome compared to The exploiter's +2 Dex tome to gain one of those AC points.

that means that with CE The Exploiter is 1 AC ahead, and without CE my build is 2 AC ahead.

You left DeF on in your build.

Your build without DeF is equal in AC, if you have the extra +3 Dex tome.

EDIT You also included Fav Def which is not in the Exploiters AC. So you are 3 behind.

But, I also got concentration and maximized CSW along with 30% human imp recovery and ranger devotion IV for quick and powerful healing.

Don't forget the 22 AP you also spent, which the Exploiter did not.

IMO it is too expensive for 1 feat and 27.5% of ALL your APs (22/80)


A comment;
I think you need to run the actual game mechanics better on some of your ideas.

Healing is not calculated with a simple CxW * Dev* IHR * SupPot*Meta

IME it is;

CxW * (Dev+ IHR+ SupPot ) * Meta

With Maximized CSW (50 SP) with Dev 40%, IHR 30% and SupPot you are getting ~1.7 HP/SP. [86 HP / 50 SP]

Empowered Healing CSW (35 SP) with Dev 40%, IHR 30% and SupPot you are getting ~2.1 HP/SP. [46-100 HP / 35 SP]

Swapping to a Sup Pot will be difficult in combat as you have Wis on a wep, which if unequipped will reduce SP.

You will have 324 SP at 20th (+ items) so you will not be able to cast many CSW at 50 SP each (assuming you are helping the party with FoM and Barks).

[Nyvn]

It looks good a bit low on HP for my tastes, but it shouldn't be a problem.

[Yargore]

This is a Mod9 high AC, mid HP character with no grazing hit protection.
Have you tried this build to see if the Maximized CSW approach is actually viable in game?

Stoneskin and shield wands.

Some errors;
Paladin aura does not get to 6 yet, there is no +5 Bulwark of Good in beta.

DoS 3 gives an extra Ac to your aura.

It is more than 20 HP as you don't qualify, and can't afford, Racial Toughness 3 because you have spent 22 on healing enhancements.

I wouldn't waste a dex or wis on con. 7 APs for 10 hp is just way to expensive. Then I prefer spending it on healing enhancements. it's very easy to get high enough HP anyways.

You also use a +3 Dex tome compared to The exploiter's +2 Dex tome to gain one of those AC points.

Feel free to add a +3 dex tome to that build then. Although it won't do any good.

You left DeF on in your build.

Your build without DeF is equal in AC, if you have the extra +3 Dex tome.

EDIT You also included Fav Def which is not in the Exploiters AC. So you are 3 behind.

No, I didn't. We are talking abot the same AC mods here. The only difference is that I got 2 higher dex and wisdom, thus gaining 2 AC.
The Exploiter got nothing to cover that in PA.

Interesting. The Exploiter gets 3 AC from some magical unknown source that I can't get?

Don't forget the 22 AP you also spent, which the Exploiter did not.

IMO it is too expensive for 1 feat and 27.5% of ALL your APs (22/80)

There is not much else to spend it on.
It might be 27.5% of all my APs, but the benefit is still huge.
What am I else supposed to spend them on? HV 4? ranger skill boost? skills?

A comment;
I think you need to run the actual game mechanics better on some of your ideas.

Healing is not calculated with a simple CxW * Dev* IHR * SupPot*Meta

IME it is;

CxW * (Dev+ IHR+ SupPot ) * Meta

With Maximized CSW (50 SP) with Dev 40%, IHR 30% and SupPot you are getting ~1.7 HP/SP. [86 HP / 50 SP]

Empowered Healing CSW (35 SP) with Dev 40%, IHR 30% and SupPot you are getting ~2.1 HP/SP. [46-100 HP / 35 SP]

Swapping to a Sup Pot will be difficult in combat as you have Wis on a wep, which if unequipped will reduce SP.

You will have 324 SP at 20th (+ items) so you will not be able to cast many CSW at 50 SP each (assuming you are helping the party with FoM and Barks).

I'm not sure if this is correct, it would be great if someone could confrim.

I know that empower healing is more SP efficient (that's very obvious), but I think it's better to be able to heal more at once instead. I will definetly try both.

Devotion IV rings...

As rangers can easily reach 600+ SP now, I don't think 700 will be a problem at level 20. Combine it with some conc opp and sometimes torc (if they will keep working on grazing hits) and you get a pretty deep SP pool for selfhealing.

[TechNoFear]

7 APs for 10 hp is just way to expensive. Then I prefer spending it on healing enhancements. it's very easy to get high enough HP anyways.

Racial Toughness 3 is 6 (not 7) total.

You list Racial Toughness 2 so it is 3 extra for 10 HP.

Interesting. The Exploiter gets 3 AC from some magical unknown source that I can't get?

The Exploiter lists 65 selfbuffed AC inc CE and BarkSkin.

You list 60 (62 DeF) with a Shroud exp Wis GS and Fav Def (not included in the EXploiter) but no Barkskin. With Barks this equals the Exploiters 65 AC (67 w/ DeF).

Exploiter has 69 with Fav Def and a Shroud exp Wis GS.

So in PA mode you are 1 ahead (not 2)
In AC mode you are 2 behind (not 1).

EDIT:
Without the extra +3 Dex tome you included;

you are equal in PA mode
In AC mode you are 3 behind.

I'm not sure if this is correct, it would be great if someone could confrim.

See this is my point.

You do not do actual research on the game mechanics. You assume theoretical knowledge is better than actual experience and do not bother to check actual in game mechanics.

I did reaseach the actual mechanics, prior to posting.

I suggest using a clr and Heal as it heals a constant amount, therefore allowing you to calc the the multipliers.

I know that empower healing is more SP efficient (that's very obvious), but I think it's better to be able to heal more at once instead.

But you did not bother to TEST or run the math, prior to posting.

Devotion IV rings...

Will this cost you a stat item slot? (ie TumbleWeed, Wis or Con depending on item breakdown)

Removing one of these in combat to cast a spell, when low on HP, might not be the best idea....

As rangers can easily reach 600+ SP now, I don't think 700 will be a problem at level 20.

Some rangers may.

Your build will have 324 SP while it holds the Exp Wis GS.

Even with a Wiz6 + 50 + 100 SP shroud item (a waste on this DPS) you will still NEVER reach 700.

Combine it with some conc opp and sometimes torc (if they will keep working on grazing hits) and you get a pretty deep SP pool for selfhealing.

Is this the 3rd or 4th GS item on this build?

I would be like to see the equip breakdown.

[Junts]

Racial Toughness 3 is 6 (not 7) total.

You list Racial Toughness 2 so it is 3 extra for 10 HP.



The Exploiter lists 65 selfbuffed AC inc CE and BarkSkin.

You list 60 (62 DeF) with a Shroud exp Wis GS and Fav Def (not included in the EXploiter) but no Barkskin. With Barks this equals the Exploiters 65 AC (67 w/ DeF).

Exploiter has 69 with Fav Def and a Shroud exp Wis GS.

So in PA mode you are 1 ahead (not 2)
In AC mode you are 2 behind (not 1).




See this is my point.

You do not do actual research on the game mechanics. You assume theoretical knowledge is better than actual experience and do not bother to check actual in game mechanics.

I did reaseach the actual mechanics, prior to posting.

I suggest using a clr and Heal as it heals a constant amount, therefore allowing you to calc the the multipliers.



But you did not bother to TEST or run the math, prior to posting.



Will this cost you a stat item slot? (ie TumbleWeed, Wis or Con depending on item breakdown)

Removing one of these in combat to cast a spell, when low on HP, might not be the best idea....



Some rangers may.

Your build will have 324 SP while it holds the Exp Wis GS.

Even with a Wiz6 + 50 + 100 SP shroud item (a waste on this DPS) you will still NEVER reach 700.



Is this the 3rd or 4th GS item on this build?

I would be like to see the equip breakdown.

racial toughness 3 requires a con enhancement; if that con point makes you odd, then racial 3 does cost a lot of ap for 10 hp.

self-healing rangers do work awfully well and theres no shortage of them on ddo right now

the way he should be doing his greensteel is with a min2 access and a conc opp access, letting him get all his sp and hp with massive slot consolidation.