Please help balance offense & defense - 28pt. 2Mnk/18Ftr Kensai Dragonmarked Halfling

[Ereshkigal]

I'm working on a 2 monk, 18 fighter/kensai build. This is nothing all that ground-shattering or new, but I have little practical experience in-game at higher levels, so I'm looking for some help to make this as optimal as I can. I've included character bonuses up to level 20, but I've chosen not to speculate about what new gear might be introduced and have only used gear existing within mod 8.

NOTE: The +3 tomes are shown to show optimal values. If I can buy the +3 tomes from the DDO store then that is one thing, but if I have to grind for them, It may be years before they get applied to to build. So, I don't really want to count on tomes for early on. Probably in the upper levels is when they will be applied, if ever.

My concerns approaching level 20:

I feel the To-Hit modifier will be weak when used in conjunction with Combat Expertise.

I don't know if my Armor Class will be insufficient, adequate, or overkill. I could boost the To-Hit modifier by lowering the armor class a bit, but I don't know if I should or to what extent I can do this while maintaining a useful armor class.

The final thing that seems as though it might compensate some for the Combat Expertise penalty to To-Hit, woudl be the 8 Fighter Attack Clickys that would give +4, and the 8 Kensai Surge Clickys that would give +8 to strength and thus +4 To-Hit. That's what 16 minutes of clickies between shrines? Seems like a lot of clickies.

All that being said, any and all comments are welcome.

The Build so far:

ST/DE/CO/IN/WI/CH:

12/18/09/13/14/08 - 28 pt build
00/05/00/00/00/00 - Levels
03/02/00/00/01/00 - Enhancements
06/06/06/00/06/00 - Items
03/03/03/00/03/00 - Tomes

24/34/18/13/24/08 - Sub Total

07/12/04/01/07/-1 - Bonus

FO/RE/WI:

11/06/06 - Fighter Levels 18
03/03/03 - Monk Levels 02
04/12/07 - Ability Bonus
02/02/02 - Luck
01/01/01 - Halfling
03/03/03 - Enhancements
01/01/01 - Alchemy
05/05/05 - Resist Item
00/03/00 - Kensai
00/00/02 - Iron Will

30/37/30

Hit-Points:

020 - Heroic Durability
016 - 02 Levels of Monk
180 - 18 Levels of Fighter
080 - Constitution Bonus
062 - Toughness + Enhancements
022 - Minos Legens
010 - Draconic Vitality
045 - Shroud Item
030 - Greater False Life

465 - Total

To-Hit:
(no Clicky-Boosts/Combat Expertise shown)

19 - BaB
07 - Strength
03 - WF,GWF,SWF
02 - Kensai
05 - Weapon
02 - Tumbleweed

38 - Sub

Armor Class:
(Base Numbers)

10 ---- Base
01 (11) Halfling Size
08 (19) Bracers of Armor
05 (24) Protection
03 (27) Insight
01 (28) Alchemical
04 (32) Dodge - Icy Raiments
03 (35) Dodge - Chattering Ring
01 (36) Dodge - Feat
01 (37) Two weapon defense
12 (49) Dexterity
07 (56) Wisdom
03 (59) Natural Armor - (From an Item, forget the name, or +3 potions)

(Potential Upper Limit)
05 (64) Dodge - Combat Expertise
01 (65) Haste
04 (69) Shield Clicky
02 (71) Ranger Barkskin
02 (73) Recitation
04 (77) Inspired Heroics

FEATS:
(2 Monk, 10 Fighter, 7 Standard )

Combat Expertise
Toughness
Dodge
Iron Will
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kopesh
Improved Critical: Slash

Least Dragonmark of healing
Lesser Dragonmark of healing
Greater Dragonmark of healing

Two Weapon Defense
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Over-sized Two Weapon Fighting

Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Enhancements:

(06/06)Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
(10/16)Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark IV
(06/22)Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
(03/25)Enhancement: Fighter Kopesh Specialization II
(06/31)Enhancement: Halfling Luck III (Fortitude)
(06/37)Enhancement: Halfling Luck III (Willpower)
(06/43)Enhancement: Halfling Luck III (Reflex)
(06/49)Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
(03/52)Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
(12/64)Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
(03/67)Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
(08/75)Enhancement: Fighter Kensai III
(03/78)Enhancement: Kensai Kopesh Mastery III
(02/80)Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I

Skills:
Balance, Spot, Jump

[Greydeath]

If you are going to put your level ups into DEX, swap Scimi (or Khopesh?) for Rapier and go Weapon Finesse (swapped for Iron Will). This will boost your to-hit which while currently decent may be less so Mod9.

You could also stand to move a point from INT to CON and use a +1 tome for CE. In fact if you are prepared to grind for a +3 INT tome, moving all 3 points into CON would be good. Since you are not getting Power Attack, I would move 2 points from STR to CON as well bringing it to 14 which is where you will want it as a front line melee.

Your AC is adequate and will be functional in Mod9. Squeezing in a DR item would be beneficial.

You have the Khopesh feat but take Scimi enhancements…

[Ereshkigal]

If you are going to put your level ups into DEX, swap Scimi (or Khopesh?) for Rapier and go Weapon Finesse (swapped for Iron Will). This will boost your to-hit which while currently decent may be less so Mod9.

You could also stand to move a point from INT to CON and use a +1 tome for CE. In fact if you are prepared to grind for a +3 INT tome, moving all 3 points into CON would be good. Since you are not getting Power Attack, I would move 2 points from STR to CON as well bringing it to 14 which is where you will want it as a front line melee.

Your AC is adequate and will be functional in Mod9. Squeezing in a DR item would be beneficial.

You have the Khopesh feat but take Scimi enhancements…

can see your point with lowering the intelligence, but I'd be more inclined to put that into strength, dex, or wisdom, but then the net gain for those points will be small as those abilities are already high... Sadly I won't have tomes early on, at least not +3 ones, unless they become relatively cheap on the DDO store, which I doubt. ( Note: not saying I think they should be cheap on the DDO store. )

As far as hitpoints, I've added a section above to show that I can attain 465 hitpoints with CON as it is, as well as the 30 FORT save, so I'm really not sure why I would need to increase my CON, am I missing something?

I don't want to go weapon finesse, I want to use kopesh. I am open to putting the level ups into strength, but will that 2 points of AC be important to lose, and will the 2 points of To-Hit that I gain be enough to make a difference?

Also, fixed the enhancement to Kopesh, thanks.

[Greydeath]

Well, +1 tomes are easily available in game and from the Store, so moving that point from INT to CON would be very doable. The other nice thing about an even CON is that +2 tomes are MUCH easier to get than +3s and with +4s in game it at least leaves the possibility open that you could benefit from it. Consider that ~450 odd HP is the standard at lvl16, so it is going to be LOW for lvl20.
[Minos will only be 20hp next Mod as well]

As for tomes in general, no they are not easy, but if you want to put in the effort they are available for those that do.

An issue is that with only 28points you are spreading yourself thin. Your to-hit is going to be on the low side with STR when CE is up, and without the higher DEX bonus your AC is not going to be great.

If you want to go STR based, move 4 points from DEX to STR and put your level ups into STR as well. This is essentially trading ~4 AC for 4 to-hit. But then you run into the fact that you are trying to DPS without Power Attack…

Your DEX mod in your saves column is also incorrect based upon your listed stats.

I think your original concept is best when focused on AC – just make sure to pick up Intimidate as one of your maxed skills.

No prob

[FluffyCalico]

As far as hitpoints, I've added a section above to show that I can attain 465 hitpoints with CON as it is, as well as the 30 FORT save, so I'm really not sure why I would need to increase my CON, am I missing something?

.

Petty good for level 16. But if I read right that is your level 20 HP.

Please read the thread about the new raid. I see you getting 2 shotted.

Yep that 300+ cold damage aura was super fun wasn't it!

Also you drop 10% of your DPS for the monk levels. Meaning a capstone Kensai is going to do alot more DPS and the tank fighter is going to hold aggro better and tank better both. You have created a middle ground toon that can do either ok but neither really well.

[Ereshkigal]

so do i need to hit what.... 525, 550 hitpoints? more? 4 points into con would just mean, what, 40 more hitpoints? I dont' think I can get more than that without 32 point builds. Now, if 32 point builds go into the DDO store, i'll be better off. Another thought would be to drop the healing dragonmarks and pony up for potions..... Then go Dwarf instead of Halfling, could grab the kopesh feat later in the progression and use dwarven axes early on. Grab the extra toughness enhancements with the points saved from the halfling luck enhancements and also put 2 or 4 more toughness feats into play in the now vacant slots. Doing this would allow for hitting 600+ hitpoints, and a slightly higher starting strength, though it would mean an AC reduction of, I think, 3 points minimum ( 1 from size, 1 from dex enhancements, and 1 from the dex starting ability bonus ). Still, not knowing where the break points for "near optimal ac" and "effective to-hit" is crippling my ability to know if this would be a better, if more expensive path to take.

I'd still like to know what kind of to-hit number I should be hitting to be useful

and also what kind of AC I should be at to be near-optimal.

I do currently use a 5/magic DR item but I'm still at level 7.

I was actually trying to go middle-ground. I don't expect to be optimal in both AC and DPS. I would like to be "close-to-optimal" with AC and towards the bottom range of effective with my to-hit numbers. So for this reason I'm not concerned with the lost fighter capstone. Intimidate easily fits into the equation as spot and balance don't need to be maxed out.

Am I as close as I can get or should i shift from ac to t-h or form t-h to ac? I realize there is not golden answer but if you have an opinion on more specifics I'd like to hear it.

Thanks for your time in responding folks.

[FluffyCalico]

so do i need to hit what.... 525, 550 hitpoints? more? 4 points into con would just mean, what, 40 more hitpoints? I dont' think I can get more than that without 32 point builds. Now, if 32 point builds go into the DDO store, i'll be better off.

I'd still like to know what kind of to-hit number I should be hitting to be useful

and also what kind of AC I should be to be mitigating some damage. I currently use a 5/magic DR item but I'm still at level 7.

I was actually trying to go middle-ground. I don't expect to be optimal in both AC and DPS. I would like to be "close-to-optimal" with AC and towards the bottom range of effective with my to-hit numbers. So for this reason I'm not concerned with the lost fighter capstone. Intimidate easily fits into the equation as spot and balance don't need to be maxed out.

Am I as close as I can get or should i shift from ac to t-h or form t-h to ac? I realize there is not golden answer but if you have an opinion on more specifics I'd like to hear it.

Thanks for your time in responding folks.

If you aren't worried about DPS loss or to hit loss you should look at this instead. Basically the same ac but without the monk levels. And since you don't need monk levels you get the capstone. Add in the ability to put a weapon in the off hand and a couple TWF feats and you have something that can have the DPS you feel is acceptable, the ac you want, and far better ability to tank and hold aggro.

Today's preview is the Stalwart Defender, a prestige enhancement line that's very similar to the Defender of Siberys, yet does differ in some thematic ways. While they don't get the various holy abilities of the Defender of Siberys, they trade that for various other passive improvements.

Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Cost: 4 Action Points
Prereqs: Level 6 Fighter, Fighter Skill Intimidate 2, Fighter Armor Boost 1, Toughness, and any one of: Shield Mastery, Combat Expertise, Diehard, Dodge, or Least Dragonmark of Sentinel.
Benefit: While the flesh may be weak, you place your trust in the strength of steel. This prestige enhancement increases your armor class by 1, grants +2 to intimidate, increases your maximum dexterity bonus allowed by shields, and grants additional armor class and damage reduction when blocking with a shield. You may expend a use of Fighter action boost to to enter a defensive stance. When using a shield, you possess DR 2/-.

House Deneith runs the Defender's Guild. We thought it appropriate to let dragonmarked members of the house bypass some of the restrictions for the prestige enhancement line most closely associated with them.

Stalwart Defender I: Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +2 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +1 Competence bonus on all saves, a +2 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 50% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at one quarter speed.

The Stalwart Defender is based on the Dwarven Defender prestige class from pen and paper, and may end up available to dwarves (similar to how elves can acquire the Arcane Archer prestige enhancement line). The various Defender prestige classes require a Lawful alignment - a restriction we've waived in DDO.

All Defensive Stances, however, whether they be from the Defender of Siberys or the Stalwart Defender, are not compatible with various "enrage" effects. (Rage effects do not permit "any abilities that require patience or concentration", which is pretty much a description of Defensive Stance.) Rather than kicking you out of your Defensive Stance if a friend casts Rage on you, we chose to instead make you immune to the Rage spell while in a Defensive Stance. If you're enraged when you enter Defensive Stance, the enrage effect will be removed.

Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Cost: 2 Action Points
Prereqs: Level 12 Fighter, Fighter Stalwart Defender I, Fighter Item Defense I, Fighter Armor Boost II, and any one of: Fighter Toughness II, Fighter Armored Agility II, Fighter Armor Mastery II, Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II, or Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel.
Benefit: Your defensive mastery continues to grow. This prestige enhancement increases your armor class by 1, grants +2 to intimidate, increases your maximum dexterity bonus allowed by heavy armor and shields, and grants additional armor class and damage reduction when blocking with a shield. You may expend a use of Fighter action boost to to enter a defensive stance. When using a shield, you possess DR 4/-.

Stalwart Defender II: Improved Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +3 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +2 Competence bonus on all saves, a +3 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 100% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at one third speed.

Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Cost: 2 Action Points
Prereqs: Level 18 Fighter, Fighter Stalwart Defender II, Fighter Item Defense II, Fighter Armor Boost III, and any one of: Fighter Toughness III, Fighter Armored Agility III, Fighter Armor Mastery III, Fighter Tower Shield Mastery III, or Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel.
Benefit: Your defensive mastery is complete. This prestige enhancement increases your armor class by 1, grants +2 to intimidate, increases your maximum dexterity bonus allowed by medium or heavy armor and shields, and grants additional armor class and damage reduction when blocking with a shield. You may expend a use of Fighter action boost to to enter a defensive stance. When using a shield, you possess DR 6/-.

Stalwart Defender III: Superior Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +4 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +3 Competence bonus on all saves, a +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 200% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at half speed.

[Ereshkigal]

If you aren't worried about DPS loss or to hit loss you should look at this instead

Today's preview is the Stalwart Defender, a prestige enhancement line that's very similar to the Defender of Siberys, yet does differ in some thematic ways. While they don't get the various holy abilities of the Defender of Siberys, they trade that for various other passive improvements.

Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Cost: 4 Action Points
Prereqs: Level 6 Fighter, Fighter Skill Intimidate 2, Fighter Armor Boost 1, Toughness, and any one of: Shield Mastery, Combat Expertise, Diehard, Dodge, or Least Dragonmark of Sentinel.
Benefit: While the flesh may be weak, you place your trust in the strength of steel. This prestige enhancement increases your armor class by 1, grants +2 to intimidate, increases your maximum dexterity bonus allowed by shields, and grants additional armor class and damage reduction when blocking with a shield. You may expend a use of Fighter action boost to to enter a defensive stance. When using a shield, you possess DR 2/-.

House Deneith runs the Defender's Guild. We thought it appropriate to let dragonmarked members of the house bypass some of the restrictions for the prestige enhancement line most closely associated with them.

Stalwart Defender I: Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +2 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +1 Competence bonus on all saves, a +2 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 50% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at one quarter speed.

The Stalwart Defender is based on the Dwarven Defender prestige class from pen and paper, and may end up available to dwarves (similar to how elves can acquire the Arcane Archer prestige enhancement line). The various Defender prestige classes require a Lawful alignment - a restriction we've waived in DDO.

All Defensive Stances, however, whether they be from the Defender of Siberys or the Stalwart Defender, are not compatible with various "enrage" effects. (Rage effects do not permit "any abilities that require patience or concentration", which is pretty much a description of Defensive Stance.) Rather than kicking you out of your Defensive Stance if a friend casts Rage on you, we chose to instead make you immune to the Rage spell while in a Defensive Stance. If you're enraged when you enter Defensive Stance, the enrage effect will be removed.

Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Cost: 2 Action Points
Prereqs: Level 12 Fighter, Fighter Stalwart Defender I, Fighter Item Defense I, Fighter Armor Boost II, and any one of: Fighter Toughness II, Fighter Armored Agility II, Fighter Armor Mastery II, Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II, or Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel.
Benefit: Your defensive mastery continues to grow. This prestige enhancement increases your armor class by 1, grants +2 to intimidate, increases your maximum dexterity bonus allowed by heavy armor and shields, and grants additional armor class and damage reduction when blocking with a shield. You may expend a use of Fighter action boost to to enter a defensive stance. When using a shield, you possess DR 4/-.

Stalwart Defender II: Improved Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +3 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +2 Competence bonus on all saves, a +3 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 100% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at one third speed.

Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Cost: 2 Action Points
Prereqs: Level 18 Fighter, Fighter Stalwart Defender II, Fighter Item Defense II, Fighter Armor Boost III, and any one of: Fighter Toughness III, Fighter Armored Agility III, Fighter Armor Mastery III, Fighter Tower Shield Mastery III, or Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel.
Benefit: Your defensive mastery is complete. This prestige enhancement increases your armor class by 1, grants +2 to intimidate, increases your maximum dexterity bonus allowed by medium or heavy armor and shields, and grants additional armor class and damage reduction when blocking with a shield. You may expend a use of Fighter action boost to to enter a defensive stance. When using a shield, you possess DR 6/-.

Stalwart Defender III: Superior Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +4 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +3 Competence bonus on all saves, a +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 200% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at half speed.

I've seen it Fluffy. I'm not interested in that prestige class.

I thank you for your advice, but I guess you can't tell me what the useful ranges of AC and To-Hit bonuses actually are. Hopefully someone else will be able to answer that question.

thankee kindly though, for your response.

[FluffyCalico]

I've seen it Fluffy. I'm not interested in that prestige class.

I thank you for your advice, but I guess you can't tell me what the useful ranges of AC and To-Hit bonuses actually are. Hopefully someone else will be able to answer that question.

thankee kindly though, for your response.

I can tell you for mod 8. Noone can tell you for mod 9 as its still changing.

72AC for normal more for hard elite.

To hit, 40 for normal

Again these are level 16 #s the level 20 ones are quite a bit higher but like I said still moving around.

[GunboatDiplomat]

I'm sorry to say I don't like this build. You're trying to do too much with too little.

Against an equivalent human/dwarf etc kensai you'll be something like -10 on strength. Including the halfling +1 bonus that means you'll be -4 to hit, -4 on damage main hand, -4 to hit, -2 to damage off hand. In situations where an equivalent kensai uses power attack, of which there are many, you'll be -9/-7 damage.

Those are enormous penalties. And I don't really see how you can fix it. If you raise your strength to 16 and put all level ups in there you won't have enough points for the other stats, all of which you need for this build.

If i were you I would be asking which is most important to me? Halfing, kensai or monk/evasion. You can't have a good synergy for all three on a 28 point build, maybe not even 32. I guess you could go weapon finese, 14 monk/6 kensai with the kensai mainly for flavour but thats a weak build too.

Sorry to be so negative but I've levelled up weak builds a few times before and theres nothing more disheartening than realising you have a weak build after putting so much time and effort into it.

[geoffhanna]

I am kind of echoing the other comments. The build is really well optimized for a 28 point build; this isn't a criticism of your ability to allocate points. But it is really asking a lot out of those 28 points, maybe more than they have to give.

Hmmm.

It would help if you could outline the facets of the character that are most important to you. Is it evasion? DPS? Armor? The dragonmarks?

For instance, if you gave up on dragonmarks you could really enhance your melee capability with power attack, power critical, and another toughness.

[Ereshkigal]

Ok to narrow it down or focus it a bit, I want survivability ( AC, Saves, Evasion ) to be as good as possible while leaving my ability to hit and damage at the bottom end of effectiveness. By that I mean I don't care if it takes me longer to kill something, so long as I can still kill it in a reasonable amount of time. If a more focused build is better at killing faster and beats me in kill counts, I'm alright with that. I will mostly be pugging, and I've found that living to bring people to the shrine is often more important than being able to kill things very fast.

That Being said, I appreciate all the feedback. I am going to drop the dragonmarks and switch from Halfling to Dwarf. And then I will change from Kopesh to Dwarven Axe to gain the to-hit bonus from the dwarven axe enhancements. I'll also make changes to increase hitpoints a bunch, and tilt the balance slightly from AC to give just a wee bit more focus on the to-hit.

I did choose to leave out Power Attack as I think I would only be able to use it on the minions, and while it might make the minions go away more quickly, If I am able to take the -5 hit to my to-hit value then I'd prefer to have Combat Expertise active so as to mitigate taking damage. I'm fine if it takes longer to take out the trash.

I've made a new build thread here for that build and if you care to take a look at and post any comments there, that would be great.

Again, thanks for giving me some more insight into areas of the game I have had very little experience with.