Clerics taken for granted

[Tresha_D'Artet]

In raids this comes from everyone needs to be on the same page. While noone should tell you how to play quest or raid etc... However if you don't want to do what the leader of the group will ask, you should not join.

at this point in time, folks should be familiar with most raids out there that are run on a continuous basis. there should be no reason whatsoever to dictate to anyone what to do, when to do it, and so forth. granted, there are going to be times when you hear right off the bat "this is my first shroud". ok, no problem, we all had our first shroud at one time or another. but when its a group of folks that have 30+ shroud completions, there is no point in it.

[Delt]

at this point in time, folks should be familiar with most raids out there that are run on a continuous basis. there should be no reason whatsoever to dictate to anyone what to do, when to do it, and so forth. granted, there are going to be times when you hear right off the bat "this is my first shroud". ok, no problem, we all had our first shroud at one time or another. but when its a group of folks that have 30+ shroud completions, there is no point in it.

You either live in a fantasy world, run the shroud in a static group only or are very, VERY high at the moment. Pick one and move on from the silly point you are trying to make.

[imanujakku]

im a month into the game and i have a level 9 cleric.

most of my experiences have been quite positive. people have gifted me cure moderate and cure serious wands a few times, plat a few times and a really nice veteran player gave me 25 raise dead scrolls.

the negative experiences have been few and far between but it is frustrating when people think of the cleric as the easy button and stop doing all the things they normally do when there is no cleric around like buffing themselves.

i dont expect gifts or thanks but i do expect people to play their character well and build their character decently well. im not against crazy experimental builds but gimping your constitution is never the answer for any character and ive met more than one wizard who seems to have decided to max intellect and some other mysterious stat that is not constitution.

[Braegan]

im a month into the game and i have a level 9 cleric.

most of my experiences have been quite positive. people have gifted me cure moderate and cure serious wands a few times, plat a few times and a really nice veteran player gave me 25 raise dead scrolls.

the negative experiences have been few and far between but it is frustrating when people think of the cleric as the easy button and stop doing all the things they normally do when there is no cleric around like buffing themselves.

i dont expect gifts or thanks but i do expect people to play their character well and build their character decently well. im not against crazy experimental builds but gimping your constitution is never the answer for any character and ive met more than one wizard who seems to have decided to max intellect and some other mysterious stat that is not constitution.

And as a newer player you seem to grasp the concept better than some vets. Awesome! Welcome to the class of cleric - I would argue the most powerful class in DDO come curent endgame. The sad thing is, is that most don't even know there is more than one part to being a cleric and are usually dead weight in most non-raid groups. I have leveled to current cap many characters without ever having a cleric in group and we were better off for it as so many cannot grasp the full utility of the class and the group is better off filling with self-sufficient melee.

[ariel7]

I kinda disagree with everything you said here.

why is it, we heal, spend money on wands, and never get a thank you?

Because you aren't maximizing the usefulness of your cleric. Healing is a small part of my contribution to the majority of quests. In raids, well, I'm mostly just healing, to be honest, but in many a quest...party members are...totally option. If someone is playing so stupidly that they need a full time nurse-maid and you to spend a ton of plat to keep them standing....um...pull the plug and let 'em die. I'm not above just leaving someone dead for an entire quest.

My wife and I bought a puppy a couple of years ago. He begged me for food when I was eating, so I grabbed the spray bottle and sprayed him with a mist of water. He begs my wife for food, she give him a scrap. I've trained him to expect a consequence for begging, she's trained him to be rewarded, guess who he bothers? If you spend the plat playing nurse-maid, it is your fault, imho.

Also, maybe people don't tip you, or give you resources all the time. So what? Maybe when they're on THEIR cleric and you are meleeing they consider it to be evened out.

Finally...how many casters have you thanked for haste or arcane buffs? Have you ever admitted it when a bard did spectacular healing and your cleric wasn't doing it ALL. You want to be the victim of under-appreciation? Play a bard and outheal a cleric. I've seen a shroud where the bard obviously out-healed both clerics, but the clerics were thanked and praised. Until you are thanking everyone else for doing the normal of what is expected, don't expect to be thanked for doing the normal. Do expect scorn if you won't keep up with your group.

it's like all that matters is tanks.

In your post, it's like all that matters are clerics.

rangers get treated like they don't matter, all people want mages for is haste.

Broad generalizations like that are intellectually dishonest, and if applied to real world living, a recipe for disaster. Rangers are treated like they don't matter? People only want mages for haste? Riiiiight. We also want mages for GH. And a variety of other spells to assist the party. And Rangers are good enough, smart enough, and dog-gone it, most everyone I know freakin' loves them.

people zerge (especially on tangle root) have to run through it, someone dies, no one cares, even when it's their healer, yeah good luck running to gate on hard solo.

You died and can't keep up with your party? Seems to be the code behind what you say here. Re-roll, or buy some haste potions and striders. But this one is especially rich "good luck running to gate on hard solo" hehe. I know players at I'm guessing half your level (since it seems to be difficult to just run to a gate from this quote)that xp farm the bejezeers out of that part.

no one offers to help, just 'we'll wait' (while you die trying to get to them.)

No one offered to help? Push and hold the "w" key. Use your other hand to guide your mouse.

are people ever going to realize a cleric keeps their lazy zerging a**es alive?

Apparently THIS cleric can't keep himself alive. Zerging isn't lazy. Lazy is getting on the forums after screwing up and instead of trying to improve your own performance, blame it on this massive class hatred conspiracy that prevents rangers from being cared about, mages wanted for something other than haste and cleric from....erm, not being the entertainment.

Moving forward:
Buy Haste potions and striders, and preferably a haste clickie. If you enter a dungeon at the same time as your party, you should be able to get out at the same time...exceptions might be like in Rainbow if someone bolted out ahead with the light and you can't climb up as fast in the dark as they can with the light.

Stop blaming everyone else. Take concrete steps to improve your own performance. Yours is the only performance you can DIRECTLY have an incredible impact on, dungeon in and dungeon out.

Don't heal the mana sponge. Some people are most useful to a party riding in your backpack and not being in your enxt group. Don't reward them. On same idea, be cognizant as you can of if the "mana sponge" is actually taking all that damage for a good reason. Are they intimidating every mob and the ONLY person taking any damage? Is the kill count 80% them?

Next time you have a really bad run...don't post on forums for 3-4 days. In the end, you'll be glad you didn't most likely.

Yes, actually I do thank people, but ty for your assumption. And its 'not my job' to buy wands.

It IS your job to have potions, wands and scrolls. Or, rather, it is the job of my clerics to have the proper materials for the job, no matter what. Should my ranger put down his weapons and when asked to, say, disable spells make an indignant forum post saying How dare you!?!?!? It's not my JOB to have stat-damagers. You want me to kill something? That's not my JOB. Being prepared to contribute to the party's success is your job. If you don't do that, and I have the star...you're out of a job.

I never saw any such there biggest reason I dont play there any more went totaly broke and deleted all but my ranger there and dont even play him due to being broke. Was the least generous out of the three servers I use to play and decided to drop down to 2

Where does the concept that someone OWES you something coming from? I hope the first patch of mod-9 allows us to go there and stomp this out. I have two capped clerics. Sometimes I use majors, scrolls, etc. I run 2 hounds, 2 vods every week on my clerics now. My former guild give me scrolls twice....in 4 months. Your cleric should be making a ton of plat, and not be walking around stormreach with upturned palm and an expectant expression. I probably buy 500 scrolls a week. In most situation I refuse to use a single spell point on healing. I can scroll fast enough for most quests, but no scroll puts out a blade barrier, or other offensive spell, like my spell points do. I am a chronic spender, in real life and DDO both. Since capping my second cleric...I can't keep up my spending with the influx of gold. I've never seen a cleric pay my melee's repair bills when the CLERIC's poor spell point management caused us grief.

Maybe he is trying to hard to keep idiots allive that could be what he is doing wrong.

Wasting spell points on mana sponges is like financially throwing good money after bad. That said, from the first post, I think it's a different problem.

Do you get off on being an a**hole or is it natural?

If you wonder the same about me, it's natural. I lived in Brooklyn for so long it just emanates from my very being. Now...Do you get off on pointing the finger at everyone else or is it natural?

oh, there's SO many ways to get back at those types of players the OP mentions that it's made playing a Cleric more fun then I ever thought possible. My first bit of advice is learning good comebacks:

PUG'r: "Help, I have stat damage!"
Cleric: I'll sell you a Lesser Restoration for 50gp, or a potion for 10k!

PUG'r: "I have 1 negative level!"
Cleric: Sweet, now you're the approriate level for this quest!

PUG'r: "Gah! I just got cursed and despaired by a Mummy! Where the hell did that come from!?!?"
Cleric: ...
The Party: "LOL"

PUG'r: "ZERG ZERG ZERG!!!"
General: *DING*
PUG'r: "how come you didn't heal me!?!"
Cleric: You were blocked by the, uhm, yeah...you were blocked.

Squishy: "HEAL ME!"
Squishy: "HEAL ME!"
Squishy: "HEAL ME!"
Squishy: "HEAL ME!"
General: *DING*
Squishy: "what the hell!?!?"
Cleric: It's cheaper to resurrect you.


The next best thing to a Haggle item is a Bard and they rarely ask for repayment when they purchase the 100 Heal Scrolls you requested.

LMAO love it

I have to admit I do despise heal bots on principle. There are just so many more useful things a cleric can be doing than putting bandaids and baby wipes on people too...whatever to have their own curse/disease/lesser restoration/poison etc potions/wands/scrolls.

[qes]

First and foremost if I am in a party and people get to far ahead I remind them the HEALING is direct line of sight! If toons die then they die when out of sight, they just have to wait until I get there and if I have a scroll to raise them. (The mana that I do have is normally reserved for toons that stay close!)
It is great to be in a party that is on the self supporting side of life, as in people bringing there own healing pots, scrolls and wandage.
As a side note I do remind people especially when a quest has been on the very expensive that it is good to give contributions to the cleric for a job well done, there is still a few out there that do contribute when the realize the quest was very expensive, those peeps I do keep on list and do quest with!

I think and beleive running a healer is about the most difficult toon in the game!

Yes at times it is a thank-less job!

[Pyromaniac]

DDO is all about melee classes, that's what the direction of the game has been since mod 6. I suspect all the decision makers at DDO play melee and nothing else.

End game = Melee in DDO

Arcane's at end game content? Needed for Haste, Buffs, and maybe the odd CC
Bards? Good for Haste, Buffs including Songs
Clerics? If you can't melee, then heal lots, that's what they want you for.

[Astria]

Clerics? If you can't melee, then heal lots, that's what they want you for.

If you can't melee, cast blade barrier... It will change your life.

[Soldarm]

...Burp!!..

[Furbitor]

I try to give the cleric something as I know its expensive and really starting not to run my cleric and dont buy her supplies any more if we fail I point out my empty blue bar and say u guys should have been using pots or something

Thats just.... EVIL!!!!!..... but I do it too.


Furb

[Demoyn]

I suspect all the decision makers at DDO play melee and nothing else.

If you think the decision makers play DDO at all you obviously haven't logged into the game in a long time.

[shores11]

why is it, we heal, spend money on wands, and never get a thank you?

it's like all that matters is tanks.

rangers get treated like they don't matter, all people want mages for is haste.

people zerge (especially on tangle root) have to run through it, someone dies, no one cares, even when it's their healer, yeah good luck running to gate on hard solo.

no one offers to help, just 'we'll wait' (while you die trying to get to them.)

are people ever going to realize a cleric keeps their lazy zerging a**es alive?

I will agree with you in part that sometimes cleric work seems like it is under appreciated and may be by some. However for the most part I do not look for gratitude when I play my cleric (he is a pure healer by the way) however donations are always welcome.

Chosen Line of Work
My reasoning is that this is my chosen line of profession to help the party to succes by healing them and keeping them alive. This is not really much of a difference from a fighters chosen line of work, we do not usually thank him/her for killing monsters and thus by extension keeping them from bearing down on us. When I play my ranger, rogue or paladin I usually once and while glance back at my caster and cleric to ensure they are not being harrased that is my line of profession and do not expect thanks for it.

As far as zerging goes I hate zerging and really dislike the whole zerging experience. I do not zerg and usually will leave a party that does. This does not imply that I smell the flowers either.

[shores11]

DDO is all about melee classes, that's what the direction of the game has been since mod 6. I suspect all the decision makers at DDO play melee and nothing else.

End game = Melee in DDO

Arcane's at end game content? Needed for Haste, Buffs, and maybe the odd CC
Bards? Good for Haste, Buffs including Songs
Clerics? If you can't melee, then heal lots, that's what they want you for.

If you really believe this to be true about clerics, casters and bards then I feel sorry for you as you have a limited exposure on this wonderful game. It is not all about melee I guarantee you. I play melee, support characters and specialist (rogues, bards) and can say that they can control the outcome of a quest even more than a strict melee character can. If you do not know that then you do not know D&D or DDO.

[Braegan]

If you can't melee, cast blade barrier... It will change your life.

In most cases that is a great answer. However, there are a few places where mobs have evasion and if that's the only trick up your sleeve you are screwed. That's why everyone should just say "NO!" to one-trick pony builds!

[Enochroot]

In most cases that is a great answer. However, there are a few places where mobs have evasion and if that's the only trick up your sleeve you are screwed. That's why everyone should just say "NO!" to one-trick pony builds!

There is only one obscure instance I can think of that this is true, that you can't destruct them.

Rit. Sacrifice spiders.

Other problems:

Immobile mobs.

Say yes to "one-trick pony" builds - you're very good at what you do and you have a party for a reason.

[Braegan]

There is only one obscure instance I can think of that this is true, that you can't destruct them.

Rit. Sacrifice spiders.

Other problems:

Immobile mobs.

Say yes to "one-trick pony" builds - you're very good at what you do and you have a party for a reason.

I was refering to blade barrier not destruction.

Monastary monks have evasion as do the spiders in the sub T. I am sure there are other areas where BB'ing doesn't work well.

As far as one-trick ponies, they are usually weak if they can only do one thing. Nearly any class in this game can excel at a couple of things and therefore contribute more to the group. That of course is largely dependent on the person at the keyboard.

[Caine52184]

I also love melee's that stand around and chug pots when cleric's have full mana bars and are just waiting for you to get low enough to even bother healing. I normally ask them to stop once and send me all the plat they're just burning. This whole forum attitude that melee's sucking pots somehow makes them good players is ridiculous. 200 heal pots should last you months. You should rarely need to actually use them, only when something goes wrong. So actually, I'm glad everyone doesn't do the same, you're wasting plat. Before you say "what about the burden to the cleric" - I run three capped clerics and have retired more than that.

Also, melee's that zerg off before hastes and you see them instantly chug haste pots - or, even better - when the group groups up for haste and you see a melee chug a haste pot, only to be overwritten by a real haste.


Melee's shouldn't cost much to run either - stop sucking down pots like they're going out of fasion.

Dont AS*ume you know what you're talking about. Did I say I had to chug 200 heal pots every day? FYI...the fighter that im speaking of was my first toon on my first mmo...I was new and still learning. You have your opinion and I have mine..YES I DO THINK that some people should have X amount of heal pots to be able to heal themselves in certain situations IF needed. The rest of what you said is all a blur..I didnt pay much attention to it...

[Mithran]

There are usually more Clerics who have a reputation for being stinkers than there are for Clerics who are especially good. Sometimes my timing's off when I'm playing my Cleric and I don't play as well as on other occasions. When I get frustrated though, I'm grateful that I'm in a guild where most have a capped Cleric of their own, and they can take a turn.

Edit: The idea that it's the Cleric's job to spend his plat to keep the melee characters from spending theirs though is ludicrous. The guy who posted that 200 CSW potions should last months isn't taking the long-term view. I've yet to have 200 Heal scrolls last months, and they're at least as expensive.

[imanujakku]

hit level 10 this week. honestly i think rogues are the most taken for granted class. the dont get gifted anything except ridicule and scorn if they cannot find the traps they are even called trap monkeys.

ive been in quite a few groups that got by without a cleric just fine in fact i've never not be able to finish a quest because we didnt have a cleric. i've been in a few quests now where the rogue could not disable a key trap or the party didnt start with a rogue and the quest could not be finished.

[Alcides]

Find tanks that don't take a bunch of damage and run with them. There's not many players who play inimitanks, but those that do generally save clerics tons on healing mats. Or post BYOH, and only accept players that actually can heal themselves via Wands/Scrolls. Or bring casters that won't need much healing. And if someone whines at you ignore them, you're the party leader and have final say on who makes the cut. IE take rangers and paladins instead of fighters and barbarians :P

Not to mention letting someone die once or twice for charging far ahead will train them like a dog in no time.