Sir Shroudalot

[Fennario]

Wow this thread is still going?

Why?

Of course paladins make great shroud mules.

- decent dps with holy sword
- decent hitpoints
- decent self healing
- can charge cells on the cheap
- can help pass out resists and poison
- can even keep prayer up for the rest of the group if the cleric is lazy

But who didn't already know this?

Its not a breakthrough discovery.

Let it go folks.

[Yargore]

I could level up a bard with no gear and use no scrolls and solo heal a shroud and yes in a pug. I am not the only one by any means who can do so. A bard gets mass cure lt and mass cure mod which is all you need. If a bard can replace a cleric spot which I do routinely on my bard hangover and in fact in the last week (I also ran a shroud with Aussie, another bard who healed with a cleric, and my guildie salvae who did the same) then that is efficient from a dps standpoint. If you were to make the argument that a healing warchanter who could solo heal the shroud is the most efficient I would not disagree, but that is not really your argument. The fact of the matter is clerics are inefficient in the shroud. The less clerics you can get in the shroud the better.

Show me a vid of you solo healing shroud pugs with a ungeared bard and no scrolls.
Until you have done that your statement means nothing.

[Comfortably]

Show me a vid of you solo healing shroud pugs with a ungeared bard and no scrolls.
Until you have done that your statement means nothing.

He's never done it, nor will he.

[Yargore]

Actually, they do, but you have to trace it back 5-7 posts to get to where it all started.

I'll write it out more clearly. Your buddy said something he seems to regret and is trying to correct after the fact. Most of the follow-ups have been quoting it...and baiting him. Apparently neither of you two can resist trying to get the last word.

ie, the forum denizens have sensed a weakness...and having great fun prodding you two along and making you look...well, insert a guess here.

Again, I suggest you just stop responding...and each time you post a response that seems to ignore reality, you're just making yourself look worse each time.



That's a pretty good summation. That's exactly what I'd read and exactly what I'm saying. I'm not arguing anything else in this thread. I don't care who's got the bigger one, who's right, who's wrong on the general thread itself...on this particular point, you're just digging yourself a hole.

Here's how to see what I saw. Start with the first quote by A-O and just start clicking the quoted links one by one. You'll go back about 7-8 quotes where somebody's quoting A-O, and A-O or you are saying "I didn't say that" even though there's a quote right there in the forums on THIS thread.

This is how it went down.
Someone asked what kind of powergamer would use majors in shroud. I then replied and said that a powergamer with a cleric that have no gear and no scrolls and end up in a bad pug.
Then Bugeyed quoted that and said:
"You need majors to solo heal shroud?"
I asked him how he draw that conclusion and he replied:
"And Yargore I drew that conclusion from your statement that you use majors in shroud when the other cleric has no gear/scrolls."

I still wonder where I stated that. I asked but so far no response...

Anyways, it was that last quote that A-O replied to with:

Once again, you fail.
You're the one with speaking English as native as well...

Meaning that Bugeyed failed because I never stated that I use majors in shroud when the other cleric has no gear/scrolls.


This statement is still correct, but not relevant to the previous:

A cleric wouldn't be as efficient as there are more DPS slots than cleric slots, and because clerics from time to time requires majors / heal scrolls even with good sp gear.

You just have to fouces on the bold part. Sometimes you end up in a very bad pug.


And as a wise man once said, Once again, you fail.

[Monkey_Archer]

Nice. the gimpy pali thread is still going

[Comfortably]

And as a wise man once said, Once again, you fail.

"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
-Isaac Asimov

[Yargore]

"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
-Isaac Asimov

QFT.

Add that and:
”It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.”
- William G. McAdoo

to your sig and you barely have to say anything to **** less knowledgable wannabes off. It works every time.

[Monkey_Archer]

"We all know everything, within our own context"
- Me

[Hadrian]

"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?! " - The Tick

[Absolute-Omniscience]

To everyone who fail in reading comprehension.

A cleric wouldn't be as efficient as there are more DPS slots than cleric slots, and because clerics from time to time requires majors / heal scrolls even with good sp gear.

Does not mean.

A cleric wouldn't be as efficient as there are more DPS slots than cleric slots, and because clerics always have to use majors / heal scrolls even with good sp gear.

Good that we finally got that sorted out.

I also find it funny that at first the general opinion was that:
"You can't survive without evasion."
And now it's
"An ungeared bard can easily solo heal a PUG shroud, without using a single sp pot nor a scroll."

[Thrudh]

I also find it funny that at first the general opinion was that:
"You can't survive without evasion."
And now it's
"An ungeared bard can easily solo heal a PUG shroud, without using a single sp pot nor a scroll."

I find it funny that in the same post that you pointed out that "time-to-time" doesn't mean "always" (and I agree that people misquoted you), you then commit the exact same error by quoting us as saying "You can't survive without evasion"

None of us said that... Just like you, we said, from time-to-time, evasion saves your ass...

I think an excellent (I won't go as far to say "perfect" like you guys), Shroudbot would be a 18/2 paladin/rogue...

DPS would be very high with KotC and sneak attack (although missing the capstone, so not maxed - however we totally kick-ass in the Shroud NOW, without being 20th level, and without PrEs - maxing DPS for the SHROUD is not necessary)

• So 90-95% of max DPS (still higher than any paladin can generate today)
• You get evasion for lag spikes, and you never even have to watch your health in Part 4... No need for fireshield or firestorm greaves... You can UMD any scroll, even raise dead with no gear if somehow something bad happens in Part 5.
• You get Open Lock for Part 3 (yes there are still people who can't do the puzzles)
• You get a decent Jump for Part 1 and Part 3 running water...
• You can solo the fire elemental in Part 2 with evasion
• You can be the kiter in Part 5 with zero worries... A 20th level paladin can run around with the gnoll and fire elemental chasing him and probably do fine, but a 18/2 paladin/rogue will do better
• You need zero gear... Holy Sword takes care of your DPS and portal beating needs...
• Intimidate would be nice for occasionally controlling the lieutenants (although maybe not enough skill points for this)

A 20th level paladin with max DPS would be very good as well... but I think an 18/2 paladin/rogue would be slightly more effective doing nothing but Shroud runs..

Just my opinion of course... I wouldn't dare state such a thing as a FACT...

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I find it funny that in the same post that you pointed out that "time-to-time" doesn't mean "always" (and I agree that people misquoted you), you then commit the exact same error by quoting us as saying "You can't survive without evasion"

None of us said that... Just like you, we said, from time-to-time, evasion saves your ass...

While you speak the truth, no one said "You need evasion." But a lot of people kept mentioning it and said that it fails because it doesn't have it. With "everyone" coming back to this point it had the impact that "you must have evasion to survive."

I think an excellent (I won't go as far to say "perfect" like you guys), Shroudbot would be a 18/2 paladin/rogue...

DPS would be very high with KotC and sneak attack (although missing the capstone, so not maxed - however we totally kick-ass in the Shroud NOW, without being 20th level, and without PrEs - maxing DPS for the SHROUD is not necessary)

• So 90-95% of max DPS (still higher than any paladin can generate today)
• You get evasion for lag spikes, and you never even have to watch your health in Part 4... No need for fireshield or firestorm greaves... You can UMD GH scrolls, even raise dead with no gear if somehow something bad happens in Part 5.
• You get Open Lock for Part 3 (yes there are still people who can't do the puzzles)
• You get a decent Jump for Part 1 and Part 3 running water...
• You need zero gear... Holy Sword takes care of your DPS and portal beating needs...

A 20th level paladin with max DPS would be very good as well... but I think an 18/2 paladin/rogue would be slightly more effective doing nothing but Shroud runs..

Just my opinion of course... I wouldn't dare state such a thing as a FACT...

You forget to mention the extra hps one will have in mod 9. You defend evasion splash with lower dps as "the dps will be high enough anyways", but you completely ignore the fact that one will have a lot more hitpoints as well, so evasion will be even less needed then.

I can agree to disagree. You prefer evasion and less dps, I prefer doing my farming runs faster.

[Vivanto]

I prefer doing my farming runs faster.

I tought you don't deem a "few seconds" faster completion time noteworthy. At least you didn't care about that few seconds when it was about fast running, what you think that extra 2d6 will mean in there at lvl 20 for the whole group, 10 seconds? Makes less than 1% of the total party dps, pretty unnoticable in the end.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I tought you don't deem a "few seconds" faster completion time noteworthy. At least you didn't care about that few seconds when it was about fast running

That wasn't about a character only meant for farming. And +10% movement speed does not neccessary boost the completion time, as doors, levers etc are in the way, and not everyone in the party has +10%.

what you think that extra 2d6 will mean in there at lvl 20 for the whole group, 10 seconds? Makes less than 1% of the total party dps, pretty unnoticable in the end.

3d6*

[78mackson]

I tought you don't deem a "few seconds" faster completion time noteworthy. At least you didn't care about that few seconds when it was about fast running, what you think that extra 2d6 will mean in there at lvl 20 for the whole group, 10 seconds? Makes less than 1% of the total party dps, pretty unnoticable in the end.

True.. but also false. If everyone thought "heck, my performance doesnt matter, there is 11 others around me".. then it will take alot longer then 10s..

in ths case thou.. aslong as u reach holysword your pretty much set.. since thats what really counts in this case..

ask A-O n Yar how they would build a Paladin with raid loot and u might just get another build..

[Thrudh]

I can agree to disagree. You prefer evasion and less dps, I prefer doing my farming runs faster.

Yep, we can agree to disagree... Both are good builds..

Basically, the main point of using a paladin for a Shroudbot is Holy Sword... The main attraction is a character that has a good portal and pit fiend beater for free..

[Vivanto]

That wasn't about a character only meant for farming. And +10% movement speed does not neccessary boost the completion time, as doors, levers etc are in the way, and not everyone in the party has +10%.

You yourself admitted there a 20-40sec difference, I only used that as a reference.

3d6*

-1d6+3 sa * 0,75%, 2d6 sounds about right.

[Vivanto]

True.. but also false. If everyone thought "heck, my performance doesnt matter, there is 11 others around me".. then it will take alot longer then 10s..

You just so totally missed it.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

-1d6+3 sa * 0,75%, 2d6 sounds about right.

I failed.
Forgot we were comparing to 2 rogue levels.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

So, considering you're in Legion and you clearly believe you're power gamers. I do think it's unlikely that either of you think that in a FULL RAID GROUP NORMAL DIFFICULTY Shroud run, that you really need to use Major Mnemonics all the time. With a good group, I don't need them but I've got 'em as a backup.

As it appears that you have failed once again. I shall quote myself:

To everyone who fail in reading comprehension.

A cleric wouldn't be as efficient as there are more DPS slots than cleric slots, and because clerics from time to time requires majors / heal scrolls even with good sp gear.

Does not mean.

A cleric wouldn't be as efficient as there are more DPS slots than cleric slots, and because clerics always have to use majors / heal scrolls even with good sp gear.

The bolded part in your message is where you and others have failed time and time again. Nowhere has it been stated that I or Yar thinks that Majors and Scrolls are consumed in every run.

Which of you is the minion and which is the leader? Are you sort of mutual-minions?
Do you share a collective intelligence?
Just how long have you two acted this way?
(Birth or were you dropped on your heads at an early age?)

To that all I have to say is:
geniuses think alike.