Sir Shroudalot

[Hadrian]

Aye, but I have experienced the DPS lag now. And it's not that bad.

You can ignore it without fire shield too. If people with 400 hp actually died in shroud I would agree with you, but as it is now I don't.
But I do get your point.


UMD is overrated, jump isn't

How many rounds are you taking down the pit fiend in? The faster you do it, the more the lag basically. A group that expects to one-round him can expect things to freeze up for most of that one round. Two-rounds will see some lag. Past that it's probably going to be smooth enough. I've seen 500-600 HP barbarians (with no evasion or anti-fire gear) drop suddenly when several DBF fireballs all went off "at once" as the lag caught up. In fact, I saw 3 people drop that way in a single round before.

And I find the last comment amusing. As you've been saying over and over, this build is for the shroud only. Why do you need an extremely high jump? 20 jump and 28 umd or 40 jump and no UMD. I can't see the reasoning.

UMD isn't overrated if you know exactly why you want it and what it will do for you, and think it's a good idea.

[Vivanto]

Exaclty, more dps = more fun :P

And here you were advocating this build is not for fun, but to be the end all be all powergaming shroud powerhouse so you can have fun with your other alts.

[Vivanto]

several DBF fireballs all went off "at once" as the lag caught up

Exactly, the dps lag in part4 is so chaotic, nobody can cope with it. Last time I literally only saw like 3-4 frames from start to finish, blades from outer ring to middle closed suddenly, half party from full health died at once. I personally took 3 deaths as with the lag it registered it 3 times, 3 times the item damage, and 3 minutes of death penalty... Yes, clerics were spamming mass cures every few seconds, ain't worth squat if the late damage sums up to over 500pts or more on server side.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

And here you were advocating this build is not for fun, but to be the end all be all powergaming shroud powerhouse so you can have fun with your other alts.

Please quote where I said I do not like playing the shroud, and that I infact do not like rolling up new alts.
Just because I call it "farming" or "running" doesn't mean I do not like it.

I wouldn't do anything in this game if I did not deem it fun.

[Thrudh]

I agree with hadrian.. evasion is a bit over-rated if you got some self healing and can use fire clickys(gear or scrolls).

I would rather have extend then OTWF on this toon thou.

Yep, pretty easy to hit Harry... If this was "perfect" build for the Shroud, you'd want extend instead of OTWF (Course you'll get both at level 20).

Yarg... everyone is just having fun with the mental exercise you started... it's NOT a FACT that your build is "pefect" and "the best"... We could all have fun debating the best Shroudbot out there, but you start right off acting like an ass, like it's a FACT that only you know best...

Since ultimate DPS is not needed to complete the Shroud, I'd probably go with rogue levels and evasion to make sure I don't killed every once in a blue moon in Part 4...

I would say that a 18/2 would be a good trade-off... DPS would still be very high (We do 1 round part 4s NOW, how much more DPS are we going to "need" at level 20 with PrEs?), and I think evasion, open lock, and UMD would be nice to have in the Shroud

None of it matters... It's all just for fun...

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Exactly, the dps lag in part4 is so chaotic, nobody can cope with it. Last time I literally only saw like 3-4 frames from start to finish, blades from outer ring to middle closed suddenly, half party from full health died at once. I personally took 3 deaths as with the lag it registered it 3 times, 3 times the item damage, and 3 minutes of death penalty... Yes, clerics were spamming mass cures every few seconds, ain't worth squat if the late damage sums up to over 500pts or more on server side.

Either it's your connection, mine or just luck. But we/I have been in several one rounders (4-5 or so) and the worst lagg I've had is ~1-2 second delay on heals. All abilities have still been working with 0 sec delay.

One of the runs even finished ~10-20 seconds before he went up. (5 seconds or so before blades reached us).

[Yargore]

How many rounds are you taking down the pit fiend in? The faster you do it, the more the lag basically. A group that expects to one-round him can expect things to freeze up for most of that one round. Two-rounds will see some lag. Past that it's probably going to be smooth enough. I've seen 500-600 HP barbarians (with no evasion or anti-fire gear) drop suddenly when several DBF fireballs all went off "at once" as the lag caught up. In fact, I saw 3 people drop that way in a single round before.

And I find the last comment amusing. As you've been saying over and over, this build is for the shroud only. Why do you need an extremely high jump? 20 jump and 28 umd or 40 jump and no UMD. I can't see the reasoning.

UMD isn't overrated if you know exactly why you want it and what it will do for you, and think it's a good idea.

Did a few one-rounders (4 -5) when ransacking shroud on my tempest rogue, but even on those the lag wasn't that bad.

I don't think the DFBs went of "at once", it was the clerics that stopped healing when the lag came.


UMD won't do me no good at all, but jump will make me less dependant on buffs in part 1 and 3.
I'd rather buy the cloak than running to house P every time I do shroud if fire shield suddenly became relevant.

[Thrudh]

Did a few one-rounders (4 -5) when ransacking shroud on my tempest rogue, but even on those the lag wasn't that bad.

I don't think the DFBs went of "at once", it was the clerics that stopped healing when the lag came.


UMD won't do me no good at all, but jump will make me less dependant on buffs in part 1 and 3.
I'd rather buy the cloak than running to house P every time I do shroud if fire shield suddenly became relevant.

I must admit Jump is pretty nice to have in Part 1 (even in Part 3 when getting water)... See this is the fun discussion... What skills are good for the Shroud and the Shroud alone...

[Hadrian]

I don't think the DFBs went of "at once", it was the clerics that stopped healing when the lag came.

Nah, she didn't stop healing. I put "at once" in quotes because it's how it seems due to the lag, not how it is. The problem is it can eat your heals the same way. So the DBF damage all stacks up and you die, then the heals hit nothing if the game even registered them at all.

This happened with a cleric that took part in the first 14-minute shroud run, so I know it wasn't lack of experience on the cleric's part. This was a partial pug and also some people had some of their lower tier alts that only come out for shroud runs, but still most of us had GS weapons to generate all of the DPS effect packets.

The problem is all of the weapon effects. holy + acid burst + acid blast + slicing + force ritual + backstab + base hit from 8-10 people causes some serious lag

I've seen rounds where we had to pull out because we all got yellow disconnection warnings. This is when that sort of thing happens. Heal all you want, but it won't actually get through.

You're right though - PUGs probably tend not to have all fully ritualed up GS weapons and are less likely to have this sort of problem. Still, I comment from my experiences.

[MrCow]

I must admit Jump is pretty nice to have in Part 1

It is useful for the transition to 4 of the 15 portals (at least for the common method of how Thelanis seems to take them down). However, Boots of Springing will give a build with this amount of STR enough jump to cliff-climb up or clear the jumps without the need to invest skill ranks. With the upcoming of Morah's Belt the need for skill ranks of jump in a non-dispel area becomes a waste.

[Hadrian]

It is useful for the transition to 4 of the 15 portals (at least for the common method of how Thelanis seems to take them down). However, Boots of Springing will give a build with this amount of STR enough jump to cliff-climb up or clear the jumps without the need to invest skill ranks. With the upcoming of Morah's Belt the need for skill ranks of jump in a non-dispel area becomes a waste.

Well, from a melee DPS point of view you need jump to jump over monsters so you can position yourself well. You aren't doing it because you want to make a cleaner jump than catching a ledge for a portal in part 1.

But once you can clear the head of an orthon you're pretty well set and don't need more.

[Vivanto]

Please quote where I said I do not like playing the shroud, and that I infact do not like rolling up new alts.
Just because I call it "farming" or "running" doesn't mean I do not like it.

I wouldn't do anything in this game if I did not deem it fun.

This character is bad overall, but perfect for shroud farming. Will have good dps for a cheap cost.
Created by: Me and A-O.

Tought real powergamers don't play bad overall characters, even if they play it, it is pretty absurd you can have fun with a bad toon as a perfectionist powergamer.

Either it's your connection, mine or just luck. But we/I have been in several one rounders (4-5 or so) and the worst lagg I've had is ~1-2 second delay on heals. All abilities have still been working with 0 sec delay.

One of the runs even finished ~10-20 seconds before he went up. (5 seconds or so before blades reached us).

Abilities, clickies and spells or whatever you do, yes, on client side. World update and feedback on server side aint worth squat. Heck most of the time even combat log won't update but only at certain keyframes when you do a ton of attacks at once as well.

Blame my connection all you want, dosen't make a difference if the problem is on the server side. Must say tough I usually have a pretty lag free connection of between 90 - 140 ms latency, same as most of the europeans I play with. Even then, if you are right, it's strange that players in the US get the exact same dps lag with a better connection than the overseas

Funny it happens to pretty much all of us in the instance if there's heavy dps, but not you, must be a powergaming thing

Tough last time I saw you in shroud we both died for the same dps lag I mentioned.

[Yargore]

Tought real powergamers don't play bad overall characters, even if they play it, it is pretty absurd you can have fun with a bad toon as a perfectionist powergamer.

Then you have missed the point of the build and shouldn't really keep talking. Go read the thread again.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Tought real powergamers don't play bad overall characters, even if they play it, it is pretty absurd you can have fun with a bad toon as a perfectionist powergamer.

Having fun with the character and having fun with playing shroud are two different things. And the point is to have overall more fun with better main, while still not being bored to death with low dps in there. Eg having some fun.

Abilities, clickies and spells or whatever you do, yes, on client side. World update and feedback on server side aint worth squat. Heck most of the time even combat log won't update but only at certain keyframes when you do a ton of attacks at once as well.

Blame my connection all you want, dosen't make a difference if the problem is on the server side. Must say tough I usually have a pretty lag free connection of between 90 - 140 ms latency, same as most of the europeans I play with. Even then, if you are right, it's strange that players in the US get the exact same dps lag with a better connection than the overseas

Funny it happens to pretty much all of us in the instance if there's heavy dps, but not you, must be a powergaming thing

Tough last time I saw you in shroud we both died for the same dps lag I mentioned.

Call it luck then, or call it playing EU times (eg when there aint as many playing). But I've played caster in there, and everything registers in combat log and on the mob each ~1-2 seconds, even in 1 rounder shrouds.

This whole "Lags more the more dps you do" thing is more of a rumour and hoax than it is a fact. It's more like, the more that's happening on the servers overall adds up to the effect that many effects activating at the sametime (holy, slicing, attackspeed, twf, etc) makes it lagg more.
The lagg would hardly be worse if people were dealing 100 per hit (without holy etc) than it were doing when they were doing 50 per hit (+50 damage spread over 20 different weapon effects)

[Vivanto]

Then you have missed the point of the build and shouldn't really keep talking. Go read the thread again.

Thank you for the lesson master, I did read it and know what's up with you two and this thread all to well, you didn't do anything different than in any other thread of yours, however you just failed your reading comprehension check... again

Thisgame.

[Vivanto]

Having fun with the character and having fun with playing shroud are two different things. And the point is to have overall more fun with better main, while still not being bored to death with low dps in there. Eg having some fun.

Thank you for reading what I wrote, I consider myself corrected then ^^ ... tough after your edit you just confirmed what I said earlier...

Call it luck then, or call it playing EU times (eg when there aint as many playing). But I've played caster in there, and everything registers in combat log and on the mob each ~1-2 seconds, even in 1 rounder shrouds.

You don't really do a lot of dps on a caster, certainly not as much to warrant a dps lag. I didn't get that on either of them, but sux big time on melee who are in the midst of battle.
Not so much on cleric either, but they still lag a bit already from mass cures, and it's not just the cleric who has to land the spell but the melees who have to recieve them, thus relating again to the ones affected by dps lag.

This whole "Lags more the more dps you do" thing is more of a rumour and hoax than it is a fact. It's more like, the more that's happening on the servers overall adds up to the effect that many effects activating at the sametime (holy, slicing, attackspeed, twf, etc) makes it lagg more.
The lagg would hardly be worse if people were dealing 100 per hit (without holy etc) than it were doing when they were doing 50 per hit (+50 damage spread over 20 different weapon effects)

Haha, you consider everything a hoax or a lie you don't agree with? Please don't start again what you've been already through with the attack speed stacking dsicussions on your monster, so as many other things...

[Absolute-Omniscience]

You don't really do a lot of dps on a caster, certainly not as much to warrant a dps lag. I didn't get that on either of them, but sux big time on melee who are in the midst of battle.
Not so much on cleric either, but they still lag a bit already from mass cures, and it's not just the cleric who has to land the spell but the melees who have to recieve them, thus relating again to the ones affected by dps lag.

Well, not if you do the "regular" way. Eg play the wasted party slot. Nuke as a sorc in pt4 and 5, or don't join.
A sorc nuking in part 4/5 easily reaches 300-500 dps, 300 is that of a TWF dwarven barb. I rest my case.

Haha, you consider everything a hoax or a lie you don't agree with? Please don't start again what you've been already through with the attack speed stacking dsicussions on your monster, so as many other things...

Read the rest of the paragraph, it is a flaw. HIGHER numbers would NOT cause more Lag, MORE numbers however might cause it.

[Hadrian]

This whole "Lags more the more dps you do" thing is more of a rumour and hoax than it is a fact. It's more like, the more that's happening on the servers overall adds up to the effect that many effects activating at the sametime (holy, slicing, attackspeed, twf, etc) makes it lagg more.

I don't see how that's different. You've just restated that all of the effects cause an increase in lag, and they do. Which is what I said. And the more of the cause of the lag there is, the more lag.

It's not a rumor or a hoax that we've been having people disconnect or seeing 2000ms+ pings. Sure, the sever load has an effect on how much lag you see but that is something that is fairly constant for someone assuming the same nightly playing time, and out of our control.

I don't doubt that I would see less lag if I played at 8:00 AM, but I can assure you unplayable lag is not a hoax.

[Yargore]

Thank you for the lesson master, I did read it and know what's up with you two and this thread all to well, you didn't do anything different than in any other thread of yours, however you just failed your reading comprehension check... again

Thisgame.

Fail.
You still don't get it, do you?

Now you're the Vivanto I remember, a hopeless troll who think he knows what he's talking about

[Comfortably]

You really don't need evasion for the shroud, any competent cleric can heal a party of WF barbarians with no healers friend through the shroud.