Sir Shroudalot

[Vivanto]

Well, not if you do the "regular" way. Eg play the wasted party slot. Nuke as a sorc in pt4 and 5, or don't join.
A sorc nuking in part 4/5 easily reaches 300-500 dps, 300 is that of a TWF dwarven barb. I rest my case.


Read the rest of the paragraph, it is a flaw. HIGHER numbers would NOT cause more Lag, MORE numbers however might cause it.

Yes, and if you do know why it lags then why you try to argue over any caster in there if it's a moot point? Caster dps sux either way vs a melee in there, even if you spam all you got you don't do nearly as much. Regardless the important thing is, you don't spam so fast. A ~1000 points of disint and the rest of the arsenal every couple of seconds is nowhere near as process intensive like 5-8 types of individual damage / hit totalying up to like 70-100 procs every second.

But as apparently you know that as well, I don't get why we need this discussion now...

[Vivanto]

Fail.
You still don't get it, do you?

Now you're the Vivanto I remember, a hopeless troll who think he knows what he's talking about

Tee hee, and you call me a troll, how cute from you. I'm tempted to rep you for the laugh, but not that much.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Yes, and if you do know why it lags then why you try to argue over any caster in there if it's a moot point? Caster dps sux either way vs a melee in there, even if you spam all you got you don't do nearly as much. Regardless the important thing is, you don't spam so fast. A ~1000 points of disint and the rest of the arsenal every couple of seconds is nowhere near as process intensive like 5-8 types of individual damage / hit totalying up to like 70-100 procs every second.

But as apparently you know that as well, I don't get why we need this discussion now...

Indeed, but you're confirming my point. Eg HIGHER dps do not increase the lag. More NUMBERs increase the lag.
So the hoax / rumour of higher dps = more lag is just that; a rumour.

[Vivanto]

Indeed, but you're confirming my point. Eg HIGHER dps do not increase the lag. More NUMBERs increase the lag.
So the hoax / rumour of higher dps = more lag is just that; a rumour.

If you do the grammar police, then yes I confirm. However by most standars sayng "dps lag" is just simplyfying the term, as most of the time dps involves alot of procs, thus it is most likely to happen in high dps toons packed with holy,bursting,slicing,blasting,sa-ing,force damaging etc. weapons/items.

I've seen low dps parties with lots of procs still, but I have yet to see a high dps party who dosen't have them. Thus the conclusion of being a high dps party is the most endangered to "dps lag" still stands.

[Valezra]

A cleric wouldn't be as efficient as there are more DPS slots than cleric slots, and because clerics from time to time requires majors / heal scrolls even with good sp gear.

What kind of powergamer needs Majors to farm shroud? I LOL'ed when I read that.

If you only have a few characters and want one to farm shroud a Spellsinger / Healing spec bard would be better.

1. Bards and healers are in higher demand than DPS characters in Shroud.
2. Insane Haggle will make way more money.
3. Easier to level because of higher party demand.
4. Can replace a cleric and consume the bard spot meaning an extra DPS can come on your runs making them go that much faster and smoother.

Val

[Valezra]

You really don't need evasion for the shroud, any competent cleric can heal a party of WF barbarians with no healers friend through the shroud.

You let an evasion elf die in there last night jurk!

Val

[Absolute-Omniscience]

If you do the grammar police then yes I confirm. However by most standars sayng "dps lag" is just simplyfying the term, as most of the time dps involves alot of procs, thus it is most likely to happen in high dps toons packed with holy,bursting,slicing,blasting,sa-ing,force damaging etc. weapons/items.

I've seen low dps parties with lots of procs still, but I have yet to see a high dps party who dosen't have them

Yepp you are correct.

I was just say that a while ago in a debate where they said that it doesn't go faster if you have more dps as the lag gets worse with more dps.

[Vivanto]

What kind of powergamer needs Majors to farm shroud? I LOL'ed when I read that.

If you only have a few characters and want one to farm shroud a Spellsinger / Healing spec bard would be better.

1. Bards and healers are in higher demand than DPS characters in Shroud.
2. Insane Haggle will make way more money.
3. Easier to level because of higher party demand.
4. Can replace a cleric and consume the bard spot meaning an extra DPS can come on your runs making them go that much faster and smoother.

Val

You can't predict the party makeup if you have to pug it, as many have to do from europe due to different timezones. Get a gimp group and you may need a couple pots or scrolls.

Bard is just as inefficient as there's just 1 spot for them. Ideally a shroud consits of 1 cleric 1 bard 1 caster 9 dps spots. Can change around the bard/caster ofcourse and get 10 dps spots even.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

What kind of powergamer needs Majors to farm shroud? I LOL'ed when I read that.

What do you mean with "Majors" and where have you read that?
Do you mean "larges" as in large scales and ingreds? If so my answer is; people who just started on the server.

If you only have a few characters and want one to farm shroud a Spellsinger / Healing spec bard would be better.

1. Bards and healers are in higher demand than DPS characters in Shroud.
2. Insane Haggle will make way more money.
3. Easier to level because of higher party demand.
4. Can replace a cleric and consume the bard spot meaning an extra DPS can come on your runs making them go that much faster and smoother.

Val

Warchanter > spellsinger anyday. I deem a spellsinger a wasted slot.

1. Well more or less, but there are also more slots for dps than spellsingers.
2. Yepp, but wont be able to charge high cells as easily.
3. What would we need a party for when leveling?
4. Not without gear and scrolls in most groups.

[Comfortably]

You let an evasion elf die in there last night jurk!

Val

Yes. I let you die Val.

*Evil laugh*

[Comfortably]

Warchanter > spellsinger anyday. I deem a spellsinger a wasted slot.

Amen brother.

[Valezra]

Yes. I let you die Val.

*Evil laugh*

No, I didn't die... but in the run I was healing, the other cleric and I conspired to let the paladin die. We were successful. Pleasure was gained.

Val

[Valezra]

What do you mean with "Majors" and where have you read that?
Do you mean "larges" as in large scales and ingreds? If so my answer is; people who just started on the server.

That was a fast edit. It used to read:

My answer is people who just started on the server.

You said,

A cleric wouldn't be as efficient as there are more DPS slots than cleric slots, and because clerics from time to time requires majors / heal scrolls even with good sp gear.

I was just curious why the uber Euro players still need Majors in shroud. I'm not trying to start anything... just thought it was funny.

Val

[Yargore]

What kind of powergamer needs Majors to farm shroud? I LOL'ed when I read that.

The kind that end up in a bad pug with a cleric with no gear and scrolls.

If you only have a few characters and want one to farm shroud a Spellsinger / Healing spec bard would be better.

1. Bards and healers are in higher demand than DPS characters in Shroud.
2. Insane Haggle will make way more money.
3. Easier to level because of higher party demand.
4. Can replace a cleric and consume the bard spot meaning an extra DPS can come on your runs making them go that much faster and smoother.

Val

You're wrong.
First of all spellsinger bards are not wanted in shroud. Warchanter FTW.
A bard with close to no gear and scrolls would not be able to take a clerics spot in the average pug, thus it's pretty much a wasted party slot (except for songs, but a good bard can both sing and contribute significantly in melee).
That bards are in higher demand is not entierly true, you only need 1 bard per shroud group so you will have a much easier time getting into groups with a DPS.

I laughed at the third point, if you would have leveled with me and A-O you would understand why

[Valezra]

Amen brother.

Agreed, if you cared about the character. But since we're talking about farming toons; IF you wanted to replace the healer and bard the spellsinger is just a lot more efficient. Also, DR song isn't that great in Shroud TBH.

Note, my only bard is a Warchanter

Val

[Valezra]

You're wrong.
First of all spellsinger bards are not wanted in shroud. Warchanter FTW.
A bard with close to no gear and scrolls would not be able to take a clerics spot in the average pug, thus it's pretty much a wasted party slot (except for songs, but a good bard can both sing and contribute significantly in melee).
That bards are in higher demand is not entierly true, you only need 1 bard per shroud group so you will have a much easier time getting into groups with a DPS.

I laughed at the third point, if you would have leveled with me and A-O you would understand why

Either way... DR 5 is not terribly great in there. Warchanter does bring a lil extra party DPS though. For shroud farming only I'd say it's a wash.

But you're right, in a bad pug a bard prob won't be replacing a second cleric. I just know from US LFM boards that most Shroud pugs are looking for clerics or bards as the last spot or two. Since you said you guys pug a lot I figured going with a higher demand character would be better. Doesn't matter really... Shroud "is so easy a caveman could do it." (tm)

Val

[Vivanto]

Either way... DR 5 is not terribly great in there.

Wait 2 weeks, get mod9, see how grazing hits affect you and what sacrifice you need to get a constant dr 5/- if not from bard. Then tell me about it.

[Valezra]

Wait 2 weeks, get mod9, see how grazing hits affect you and what sacrifice you need to get a constant dr 5/- if not from bard. Then tell me about it.

So grazing hits is gonna make shroud hard all of a sudden? I doubt it.

Val

[Comfortably]

So grazing hits is gonna make shroud hard all of a sudden? I doubt it.

Val

It's going to be horrible Val! Horrible!!!!

[Vivanto]

So grazing hits is gonna make shroud hard all of a sudden? I doubt it.

Val

If you haven't been in there with a high ac toon ofcourse you don't see why. Aditionally I wasn't just stating it's good in shroud, but debating the usefulness of warchanter over spellsinger with ironskin chant in general. Even more with the - yet more - inflated spell points and availability of spell sourcers in mod9, spellsinger will be less useful with the trance.