Why Zergers are Disliked?

[shores11]

Before we can even begin to answer why zergers are disliked , we must first define what a zerger is.

What a Zerger is NOT: A Zerger is not an accomplished solo player lets be clear on that.

What a Zerger IS: A Zerger is a player that feels the need to solo a dungeon while others are in his/her party so that he/she can personally bask in the glory that he/she percieves as the rest of the party must be thinking he/she is a great player to be able to accomplish this by themselves.

Now I have no problems moving through a dungeon quickly (not a blizkrieg) and staying with a party that in my opinon is not zerging. I do have a problem especially when you post for NO ZERGING and a player comes in and zerges ahead of the party. The biggest issue I have is that I pay for this game also and will continue to subscribe even when free 2 play comes out. I DO NOT want to walk through an empty dungeon and praise the almighty that we were blessed with a Zerger in our party because otherwise we would not have survived. When a Zerger gets killed because the game cheated (its always the excuse) because they cast hold person on him or commanded him (thats not fair DDO) then they want the party cleric or another willing party member to carry them to a shrine, rezz him/her or something.

I like a party I recently ran with a Zerger was running ahead of us annoying some to include me and yelled **** they held me, not fair and died. The party leader said from the beginning if you zerg I will not heal you and sure enough when we caught up to him in his ghostly form with a spinning crystal next to him we passed him by and he ended up leaving group. We all said after he left "this was a good thing".

When I do enter a party that has an extreme Zerger then I will usually leave the group as I just do not play that way even with dungeons I have done 35 + times. I have been playing since the 10-day pretrial in February 2006 and still appreciate every aspect of the game and still want to enjoy it. I could care less about rushing through a quest for XP or for loot they will come I enjoy the quest always first and foremost.

[Aranticus]

what you defined is a bad player. a good zerger has no need to bask in personal glory. hes knows he can get the job done with minimum fuss. a good zerger can pull 5 other slackers who want to enjoy smelling the flowers while the wrong impression what by sticking together, they think they are playing in a group

there is a difference between fast play and zerg play. a fast player spends 5 min killing everything, a zerg doesnt start killing until the end or when the group behind gets too hard to handle. so far when i posted lfm stating slow run, no zerg bothered to join up

sometimes things make me wonder....

[Minor_Threat]

Your definition of a zerger incorrect.

a Zerger is typically a player or group that will run through quests, killing only what is required to open doors and advance quest, no optionals. They often drag mobs through a dungeon and kill whatever makes it to the end.

The defintion you gave isn't a Zerger, it's just a player with an e-peen problem, this can be seen in zerger and crawler alike.

Give people some respect and let them play the way they want, and most will do the same for you, just make sure you state in the LFM.

[rnor6084]

what you defined is a bad player. a good zerger has no need to bask in personal glory. hes knows he can get the job done with minimum fuss. a good zerger can pull 5 other slackers who want to enjoy smelling the flowers while the wrong impression what by sticking together, they think they are playing in a group

there is a difference between fast play and zerg play. a fast player spends 5 min killing everything, a zerg doesnt start killing until the end or when the group behind gets too hard to handle. so far when i posted lfm stating slow run, no zerg bothered to join up

sometimes things make me wonder....

Nice distinction between "zerg' and "fast".

[spifflove]

Blitzkrieg (wwII tactic): combined arms approach to attack involving softening target with bombs, engaging target with tanks [think sticky paper], then artillary and infantry. Destorying target and moving on.

Zerg(ww I tactic): Running headfirst into well entrenched defenses with your officer in front standing tall and shooting a pistol

Exploiter (guilty here, we all have done this): runs to end of quest and gains xp/loot using various methods of bypassing aggro (terrain or spell).

[Knippers]

Since there is still some discussion as to what the definition is, I will add my 2 cents worth:

1. Bad zergers (for lack of a better word) never have the star. Accomplished Zergers may or may not have the star.
2. Bad zergers don't communicate with the rest of the party. Or at the very least communicate poorly. If you are not with the bad zerger - you have no idea where he is or what he's doing. Unless of course he swears and/or complains about his bad roll of the dice.
3. Bad zergers do not care about resources. Or maybe they just don't understand the concept of not wasting the parties resources. Raising/restoring/healing a bad zerger can get expensive either by using a scroll or the mana which will be needed in the upcoming fight. Also, most enounters that a bad zerger couldn't handle on his own has an unnecessary added cost to the rest of the party (mostly the cleric's mana, scrolls and/or wands) since all the monsters are aggroed and alerted. This usually means the party will not have the option of setting up a kill zone to control the fight. And even though bad zergers can cost the cleric alot of resources, I have yet to see bad zerger offer the cleric money, mana pots or scrolls. Ever.
4. And lastly, even though they have joined a party (i.e. a GROUP activity), bad zergers play like they are soloing the quest. They are alone and not talking to thier imaginary friends.

[winsom]

I'd think the dislike is because the zerger's speed and knowledge is requiring the other teammates to keep up with him or else they will miss out on enjoying some of the adventure content.

All is well If everyone is capable of keeping up, and enjoys or at least tolerates that speed of play.

[Drfirewater79]

you have no idea what you are talking about

you dont know what a zerger is let me inform you as i started a thread just to define what it was this is what we came up with ........

Zerger = someone who runs ahead killing mob to mob without hesitation or patience or regard for the placement of other party members. They "Zerg" into battle with little other then killing what is in there way as there motive or tact.Thus Zerging is the risky and reckless attempt to complete an objective in a fashion that has little forethought or true strategy and relies on deficiencies in opposing defenses and surprise to exact a costly victory (or failure).
(*edit This does not include running past archers that dont move which is a zerging tactic as well .. let it be noted also that many non zerging parties also run past archers)

Exploiter = someone who takes advantage of in game design such as "PoP back" and other such game flaws or game mechanics to achieve there goal with ease.
( this does not include running past archers which is a general zerging tactic, this also does not include sneaking which is neither zerg or exploit but tactical repositioning this specifically relates to running past mobs you have already aggro'd until they POP BACK or cannot otherwise follow you with exception ONLY to stand still ledge archers that dont move to follow there targets)

ex·ploit (eks′plo̵it′; also, and for v.usually, ek splo̵it′, ik-)
transitive verb
to make unethical use of for one's own advantage or profit; specif., to make
profit from the labor of (others) without giving a just return

Thus the unethical use of the POP back feature for ones own advantage or profit (exp or loot) is exploiting by definition of the word.)

you seem to think all zergers are exploiters

the truth is soloing a mission with party members in it isn't what a zerger does.
I am sure to some kill counts are motivation but i would think the better ones know that kill count proves nothing same like PvP proves nothing knowledge of play area and the speed in which you can adapt to the challenges you face is where the pride comes in.

I find it funny that people like you can hate on someone without knowing what it is they are ... its like hating black people without ever seeing one or talking to one ... its stupid really ... but i guess it takes less intelligence hate then to understand.

know you know and knowing is half the battle.

[Drfirewater79]

I think the big problem with non-zergers understanding who and what good zergers are is that they wont actually play with good zergers on regular basis to understand the difference.

most good zergers belong to good zerger guilds and try to stick to there guilds for parties or to known good zerg guilds when forming parties.....

if you are a slow player with an LFM up that a good zerger joins and you guys go slow ... the zerger looks at your guild name or lack there of and intentionally never joins your groups and doesn't look to your guild for invites on pugs.

a good zerger is asked once to slow down and does then leaves the party when the mission is done and trys never to party with you again.

so your experience what ever experience you think you have ... is never one of a good zerger ... only experience you ever have is with the bad zerger or exploiter who cares nothing of your game experience and figures since they can do it without you they just put you on ignore and keep going.

There are loads of bad Slow n Go players too (SnG) ... I find in pugs where i meet up with SnG players they tend to be rude when you get a head a bit ... comments like "IF you cant stay with the party leave" or other such hateful comments .... or they start a thread like you did.

at the same time if the person left the party cause it took a half hour to get half way through a mission that normally takes 10 mins to complete you would think he is an arsehole for dumping the party but you don't think about his side.

I can log on at 8 and run three raids and 4 missions on normal (or elite if favor runs) and still get to bed for 11 so i can work the next day ... if i log in at 8 and get into a party that takes an hour to do coalesence cause they dont want to run through and kill at the gate that takes a third of my play time away from me. You dont think of it like that do you?

Often (not always) zergers zerg to make optimal use of what little game time they have this is why when a non zerger joins a zerg lfm they can get irate ... its also the reason almost no good zergers join LFM's that say slow/RPG/Perma Death.

[Sirea]

Can't we all just get along?

[Visty]

i'd Think The Dislike Is Because The Zerger's Speed And Knowledge Is requiring The Other Teammates To Keep Up With Him Or Else They Will Miss Out On Enjoying Some Of The Adventure Content.

All Is Well If Everyone Is Capable Of Keeping Up, And Enjoys Or At Least Tolerates That Speed Of Play.

Qft

[Drfirewater79]

Qft

its true ... sad but true ... at least when we look at it from the perspective of the zerger

[Drfirewater79]

what you defined is a bad player. a good zerger has no need to bask in personal glory. hes knows he can get the job done with minimum fuss. a good zerger can pull 5 other slackers who want to enjoy smelling the flowers while the wrong impression what by sticking together, they think they are playing in a group

there is a difference between fast play and zerg play. a fast player spends 5 min killing everything, a zerg doesnt start killing until the end or when the group behind gets too hard to handle. so far when i posted lfm stating slow run, no zerg bothered to join up

sometimes things make me wonder....

by definition fast play is zerger and zerg play as you have defined it are exploiters

ex·ploit (eks′plo̵it′; also, and for v.usually, ek splo̵it′, ik-)
transitive verb
to make unethical use of for one's own advantage or profit; specif., to make
profit from the labor of (others) without giving a just return

Thus the unethical use of the POP back feature for ones own advantage or profit (exp or loot) is exploiting by definition of the word.

thus only killing what makes it to the end is exploiting not zerging

the term zerg comes from star craft a creature that would rush in with no hesitation or forethought to the dangers that lay ahead (aka the player).

Zerging is a play style where similar principles are applied attacking with no hesitation or care for the dangers that lay ahead.

it has nothing to do with leaving the party behind most zergers would love it if the party kept up and that is why they should stick to partying with zergers cause Slow n Go players never understand us.

[Delt]

2. Bad zergers don't communicate with the rest of the party. Or at the very least communicate poorly. If you are not with the bad zerger - you have no idea where he is or what he's doing. Unless of course he swears and/or complains about his bad roll of the dice.

Everybody rolls a one once and a while. Bad or good 'zergers' / players.

[shores11]

so your experience what ever experience you think you have ... is never one of a good zerger ... only experience you ever have is with the bad zerger or exploiter who cares nothing of your game experience and figures since they can do it without you they just put you on ignore and keep going. The main problem I have with players like you is that all through many of your replys in this thread you presume to know exactly what someone else thinks or what his experience is. In fact you do not know a thing about me (note: I did not as you did assume something about you) or my experiences in the 3 years I have played. In fact I have played with many bad zergers as you like to put it and many good zergers if that really exists. I do not necessarity play SnG to use your terminolgy I play for the quest and nothing else. So does that mean I will try to get the additional 65 XP for some menial optionl? YES, but not for the 65 XP but because of the quest experience. Do I move quickly through quests sometimes? YES, but not when it means leaving the rest of the party behind.

The biggest thing that zergers do not understand from so called SnG players is that when you run ahead of the party and either kill or pull everything the other 5 players are moving through an empty dungeon, who wants to pay for that? Now I will agree if the leader is a zerger and sets that expectation or the party sets that expectation then by all means enjoy your play style to the fullest.

There are loads of bad Slow n Go players too (SnG) ... I find in pugs where i meet up with SnG players they tend to be rude when you get a head a bit ... comments like "IF you cant stay with the party leave" or other such hateful comments .... or they start a thread like you did. I am never a fan of hateful comments however this comment is not neccessarily hateful if the party leader requested that the group play together and that no zergers should join the LFM.

at the same time if the person left the party cause it took a half hour to get half way through a mission that normally takes 10 mins to complete you would think he is an arsehole for dumping the party but you don't think about his side. Maybe but not always, I have left many groups where the party was so unorganized and incompetent that to say would be nothing short of insanity.

I do not consider myself a SnG player by any means but I am also not a zerger. I really enjoy this game for the quests thats just me. Loot and experience points will come with running quests this has worked for me. If there is a zerging party and I do not want to participate your right leave it and I sometimes do, I respect their playstyle form him or her. However if the party is lead by a group of players that prefer not to zerg then by no means does imply that are not as good a player because I know if I wanted to I could play with anyone in the game and have on many occasions.

[captain1z]

What a Zerger IS: A Zerger is a player that feels the need to solo a dungeon while others are in his/her party so that he/she can personally bask in the glory that he/she percieves as the rest of the party must be thinking he/she is a great player to be able to accomplish this by themselves.

.

Ive only read this far and I already disagree....... but lemme read the rest of your post 1st.


Ok after reading the rest, I see others did not agree also. Ill just input my idea of what a zerger is and concider it nuff said.

A zerger is a player with a goal in mind (finish the quest usually) to achieve his goal he has in mind everything he must do to be successful and everything he doesnt need to do. multiple runs of the same question will often look the same as the player might move in the exact same pattern as any other run or jump in the same places, in general make moves that look identical to the last several runs (sometimes without even realising he is) If only 1 person in a group of 6 is a zerger he will go about the quest the same as always, assuming everyone else knows there part in the quest but even if they dont it does not change his role. Its the best way he knows to complete the quest, with the greatest chance of success as far as he knows.

In a full group of zergers the 6 work in tandem like a well oiled machine. Anticipating the others moves, as the 1st person gets to a door he starts to open it, the others group around the door. If a buff is needed this is usually the time it happens. Contrary to what some thing, zergers support each other. Beyond heals and buffs, if a party member is faltering others will come to his aid, unless he has strayed to far from the game plan. Then its a judgement call if an individual wants to go out of his way to recover a party member from a bad scenario. Most of the time it still happens anyway but at times its just quicker to carry a stone than to repeatedly render assistance.

Anyway........... zerging is about efficiency. To zerg is to discourage waste of time, effort and resources. Zerging is the thrill of fast paced combat, with a group that works well together, seemingly reading each others minds and riding the adrenaline rush all the way to completion. Its a beautiful thing when it works and everyone congats each other on good teamwork....... always teamwork.

[Bloodhaven]

Before we can even begin to answer why zergers are disliked , we must first define what a zerger is.

What a Zerger IS: A Zerger is a player that feels the need to solo a dungeon while others are in his/her party so that he/she can personally bask in the glory that he/she percieves as the rest of the party must be thinking he/she is a great player to be able to accomplish this by themselves.

I do have a problem especially when you post for NO ZERGING and a player comes in and zerges ahead of the party. The biggest issue I have is that I pay for this game also and will continue to subscribe even when free 2 play comes out. I DO NOT want to walk through an empty dungeon and praise the almighty that we were blessed with a Zerger in our party because otherwise we would not have survived. When a Zerger gets killed because the game cheated (its always the excuse) because they cast hold person on him or commanded him (thats not fair DDO) then they want the party cleric or another willing party member to carry them to a shrine, rezz him/her or something.

Zergers are not what you are describing here.

You are just describing bad players. I would give them another chance in a later group but after that they get on the "List".

[Fenrisulven6]

what you defined is a bad player. a good zerger has -

No, what he has defined is a bad zerger

I get what you're tyring to say, problem is that the "bad player" defines himself as a zerger. Maybe the "good zergers" need to start a training camp. 200 plat per head? I would pitch in.

[Impaqt]

Zergers arent hated at all. the most politically term I can come with is "Jerks are hated."

What you describe is a jerk.... and a poor player to boot. If thats what you associate with zerging its no wonder you dont like them.

Zerging has nothing to do with running ahead of your party members. Zerging has nothing to do with passing blame off on someone else. Zerging has nothing to do with not being prepared for whats ahead of you. Thats all Foolishness.

Zergers will Stick together, Mow through the Content quickly, Get completions, and be ready to attack the next challenge before you know what happened. Most zergers run in tightnit guilds and rarely pug. They dont need to. Most dungeons can be completed just as easily with 2 players as with a full group.

So Please, understand who your "Disliking".

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Before we can even begin to answer why zergers are disliked , we must first define what a zerger is.

What a Zerger is NOT: A Zerger is not an accomplished solo player lets be clear on that.

What a Zerger IS: A Zerger is a player that feels the need to solo a dungeon while others are in his/her party so that he/she can personally bask in the glory that he/she percieves as the rest of the party must be thinking he/she is a great player to be able to accomplish this by themselves.

Now I have no problems moving through a dungeon quickly (not a blizkrieg) and staying with a party that in my opinon is not zerging. I do have a problem especially when you post for NO ZERGING and a player comes in and zerges ahead of the party. The biggest issue I have is that I pay for this game also and will continue to subscribe even when free 2 play comes out. I DO NOT want to walk through an empty dungeon and praise the almighty that we were blessed with a Zerger in our party because otherwise we would not have survived. When a Zerger gets killed because the game cheated (its always the excuse) because they cast hold person on him or commanded him (thats not fair DDO) then they want the party cleric or another willing party member to carry them to a shrine, rezz him/her or something.

I like a party I recently ran with a Zerger was running ahead of us annoying some to include me and yelled **** they held me, not fair and died. The party leader said from the beginning if you zerg I will not heal you and sure enough when we caught up to him in his ghostly form with a spinning crystal next to him we passed him by and he ended up leaving group. We all said after he left "this was a good thing".

When I do enter a party that has an extreme Zerger then I will usually leave the group as I just do not play that way even with dungeons I have done 35 + times. I have been playing since the 10-day pretrial in February 2006 and still appreciate every aspect of the game and still want to enjoy it. I could care less about rushing through a quest for XP or for loot they will come I enjoy the quest always first and foremost.

I'd say you hit it dead on.
I've said it before, I don't know why people who can solo every quest, choose to do so with an audiance.
Or the other type of zerger who cannot solo the quest, and blames his death on those he left behind.

There is an ok type of zerger out there.
But so far, not a single post I've seen by those defending zergers have been by that kind of zerger.
So far every single post in defense of zerging, has not acknowledged any responsibility for other members of a group to have fun too.

If you want me to have any respect for your point of view, you had better come across as actually concerned about the fun level of other players.

If the only person having fun that you care about is you,....well....that's a real selfish viewpoint.

And if you think watching someone else kill everything is fun....well....you're wrong.
If you think being left for dead is fun...you're wrong.

or left behind....missing all the action.
etc.