Transmuting Weapons in Mod 9

[Bronko]

I would like to make one final plea to alter the way Transmuting will work in Mod 9.

Transmuting should include Flametouched as one of the alchemical properties those weapons will bypass. This seems like a fair compromise to the otherwise big nerf that Transmuting will experience in Mod 9.

These are the simple reasons why:

1. it would address the problem many non-good aligned characters have when trying to find weapons to bypass the DR of most end-game monsters, and
2. it would allow the more casual gamers reasonable access to weapons that can meaningfully contribute to DPS against such monsters.

I know it's hard to believe that any 'significant' changes like that one I'm requesting can be made in time before Mod 9 is released but I hold out hope that it's not.

[FluffyCalico]

I would like to make one final plea to alter the way Transmuting will work in Mod 9.

Transmuting should include Flametouched as one of the alchemical properties those weapons will bypass. This seems like a fair compromise to the otherwise big nerf that Transmuting will experience in Mod 9.

These are the simple reasons why:

1. it would address the problem many non-good aligned characters have when trying to find weapons to bypass the DR of most end-game monsters, and
2. it would allow the more casual gamers reasonable access to weapons that can meaningfully contribute to DPS against such monsters.

I know it's hard to believe that any 'significant' changes like that one I'm requesting can be made in time before Mod 9 is released but I hold out hope that it's not.

1) Holy silver works on end game monsters and holy trans also.
2) Overriding good with UMD was here long before shroud and is not new just back the way it should be.
3) If you make something with good in the shroud it will not make you UMD it.

[sirgog]

1) Holy silver works on end game monsters and holy trans also.
2) Overriding good with UMD was here long before shroud and is not new just back the way it should be.
3) If you make something with good in the shroud it will not make you UMD it.

That does not address the OP's points.

Holy Silver weapons are not very accessible for new players. Neither are Shroud weapons. Not for a little while, anyway.

So we'll have a bunch of people who currently contribute to a Shroud raid with their easily acquired +4 Transmuting Greataxe suddenly become near-useless, while the player with the two Mineral 2 Khopeshes is just as strong as before.

[KKDragonLord]

while i agree that transmuting should include flametouched (and also be renamed and adjusted to Metalline)

I disagree that anything in the game should be "easily aquired", as grinding is part of the game and the AH just makes it all just as easy anyway.

Also, i remember a time when some weapon properties weren't half as common as they are today, and the game worked fine even if people had to work hard to get their DR bypassing weapons or paralyzers or vorpals or smiters etc...

[winsom]

or the devs could increase the probability that any looted weapon will be silver.

You would think that a year after a Devil Invasion many of these silver weapons would have been created and we would find them in monster lairs more often !

The concept of monsters having treasure is that they defeat less-than-capable adventurers and horde those items for US to find

In D&D you can buy a 100 gp alchemical mixture to temporarily turn any metal weapon into a Silver weapon. This bypassing silver DR via random item availability issue really shouldn't exist in DDO.

[Thriand]

1) Holy silver works on end game monsters and holy trans also.

Okay apart from mineral 2 weapons show me a weapon that has "holy" and "transmuting" on it.

As of right now a non-good melee with no UMD would have to find a holy-silver weapon, make a mineral II weapon, or find a transmuting-flametouchediron weapon. All these are much more rare than your standard transmuting of pure good.

A person shouldn't be punished just for not being of good alignment, I agree this should be addressed.

[Impaqt]

Okay apart from mineral 2 weapons show me a weapon that has "holy" and "transmuting" on it.

As of right now a non-good melee with no UMD would have to find a holy-silver weapon, make a mineral II weapon, or find a transmuting-flametouchediron weapon. All these are much more rare than your standard transmuting of pure good.

A person shouldn't be punished just for not being of good alignment, I agree this should be addressed.

Its not Punishment.

There are no Evil alignments in DDO. and a 20UMD to use most good based weapons isnt really that hard to obtain. Much easier than looting a Holy/Silver weapon, thats for sure.

THere no "Right" in DDO to have the perfect weapon for every situation. Sometimes it take a bit of work.

That being said, I would totaly be in favor of seeing some named Holy/Silver weapons added to a loot table somewhere. Like Invaders has all the Cold Iron Axiomatic stuff for the Renders/Hounds.

Add a Collectable in the Vale with a Turn in for a List of Holy/Silver weapons. Nothing over the top uber. Just a nice list of mid powered Weapons.....

[KKDragonLord]

Okay apart from mineral 2 weapons show me a weapon that has "holy" and "transmuting" on it.

As of right now a non-good melee with no UMD would have to find a holy-silver weapon, make a mineral II weapon, or find a transmuting-flametouchediron weapon. All these are much more rare than your standard transmuting of pure good.

A person shouldn't be punished just for not being of good alignment, I agree this should be addressed.

it does not need to be Holy

it can be Righteous or it can be pure good as well
I don't have Green Steel yet and at the moment my main transmuter is a +5 Righteous greatsword
and i dont even use it against evil outsiders since i can just cast Holy Sword instead.

As soon as i hit the desert at level 12ish i got myself a cold iron pure good sword. (though all i had to do at the DQ raid was yawn while the casters cooked her)

i have at least one weapon of for each type of monster out there as well, and i got all this with my first character with no problems.

After my 1st run of Deleras i just went out and bought a +1 puregood Greatclub.

To solo STK at level 5 i had to buy a +3 adam greatsword.

Now imagine how easy this will all be with even more players around to trade things in AH.

Loot is already undervalued enough, these changes will improve that quite a bit.

[Thriand]

it does not need to be Holy

it can be Righteous or it can be pure good as well
I don't have Green Steel yet and at the moment my main transmuter is a +5 Righteous greatsword
and i dont even use it against evil outsiders since i can just cast Holy Sword instead.

As soon as i hit the desert at level 12ish i got myself a cold iron pure good sword.

i have at least one weapon of for each type of monster out there as well, and i got all this with my first character with no problems.

After my 1st run of Deleras i just went out and bought a +1 puregood Greatclub.

To solo STK at level 5 i had to buy a +3 adam greatsword.

Now imagine how easy this will all be with even more players around to trade things in AH.

Loot is already undervalued enough, these changes will improve that quite a bit.

Righteous does not add the good modifier, and pure good can't be used by neutral characters without UMD 20, which is why bronko was asking for this change in the first place

[baddax]

it does not need to be Holy

it can be Righteous or it can be pure good as well
I don't have Green Steel yet and at the moment my main transmuter is a +5 Righteous greatsword
and i dont even use it against evil outsiders since i can just cast Holy Sword instead.

As soon as i hit the desert at level 12ish i got myself a cold iron pure good sword. (though all i had to do at the DQ raid was yawn while the casters cooked her)

i have at least one weapon of for each type of monster out there as well, and i got all this with my first character with no problems.

After my 1st run of Deleras i just went out and bought a +1 puregood Greatclub.

To solo STK at level 5 i had to buy a +3 adam greatsword.

Now imagine how easy this will all be with even more players around to trade things in AH.

Loot is already undervalued enough, these changes will improve that quite a bit.

Is that correct, Righteousnees works as well?

[Khurse]

No (as said) Righteous adds a bonus to hit evil creatures, but it does not count as good aligned.

[Jendrak]

I'm gonna have to agree with the OP on this one.

I you only want transmuting to simulate the different types of alloys fine but to pick and choose which ones is just bad DM'ing. FlametouchedIron is a metal and should be included into Transmuting.

[Drekisen]

so what I am uncertain about here is, is flametouched iron actually a chemical reaction towards "evil" things in it's natural state....or does it become that way when it is blessed by the silver flame.

It's hard to tell because in the description for items with it, it almost seems more like it is the power of the Silver Flames faith that makes it good aligned not the actual iron itself.

If this is the case then it's not a metalline type, it's more a type of iron imbued with the belief that it is holy by a powerful faith.

Like for example if just some ordinary person with no affiliation with the SF at all happened upon a bunch of "flametouched iron" that has never been touched or recognized by the SF at all, forged a sword with it, and then took it to the Vale, would it bypass a Devils DR?

[Kraldor]

Flametouched iron is just regular metal that was blessed by a Cleric of the Silver Flame. The Transmuting weapon effect shouldn't be able to replicate a blessing.

[Quikster]

so what I am uncertain about here is, is flametouched iron actually a chemical reaction towards "evil" things in it's natural state....or does it become that way when it is blessed by the silver flame.

It's hard to tell because in the description for items with it, it almost seems more like it is the power of the Silver Flames faith that makes it good aligned not the actual iron itself.

If this is the case then it's not a metalline type, it's more a type of iron imbued with the belief that it is holy by a powerful faith.

Like for example if just some ordinary person with no affiliation with the SF at all happened upon a bunch of "flametouched iron" that has never been touched or recognized by the SF at all, forged a sword with it, and then took it to the Vale, would it bypass a Devils DR?

What about some type of favor reward to have a priest bless your weapon?

[captain1z]

Flametouched iron is just regular metal that was blessed by a Cleric of the Silver Flame. The Transmuting weapon effect shouldn't be able to replicate a blessing.

i agree with the op but this is a good point also.

[Dexxaan]

Flametouched iron is just regular metal that was blessed by a Cleric of the Silver Flame. The Transmuting weapon effect shouldn't be able to replicate a blessing.

It doesn't get much clearer Gentemen.

End of argument, move along... nothing to see here anymore.... move along.

[Greydeath]

Flametouched iron is just regular metal that was blessed by a Cleric of the Silver Flame. The Transmuting weapon effect shouldn't be able to replicate a blessing.

That is incorrect - therefore this is wrong:

It doesn't get much clearer Gentemen.

End of argument, move along... nothing to see here anymore.... move along.

[Greydeath]

1) holy trans also.

Does not exist

Its not Punishment.

The change is a major nerf - that is certainly a form of punishment.

a 20UMD to use most good based weapons isnt really that hard to obtain.

Speak for yourself - not every character can manage it

That being said, I would totaly be in favor of seeing some named Holy/Silver weapons added to a loot table somewhere. Like Invaders has all the Cold Iron Axiomatic stuff for the Renders/Hounds.

Add a Collectable in the Vale with a Turn in for a List of Holy/Silver weapons. Nothing over the top uber. Just a nice list of mid powered Weapons.....

Agreed

[SteeleTrueheart]

This topic comes up too often. Here are the official quotes.

I agree that a named silver/holy weapon should be added after such a long time with devils in the game.

We had this discussion internally, and the end consensus was that our transmuting weapons would be able to bypass material based damage reduction - if something possessed DR/Flametouched Iron, DR/Aluminum, or even DR/Wood, it would be vulnerable to the weapon.

Transmuting weapons do not gain all of the properties of the materials they resemble, such as Adamantine's extreme hardness or Mithral's light weight, so we ended up deciding that neither do they gain Flametouched Iron's abilities to bypass DR/Good or to grant conditional saving throw bonuses nor Greensteel's ability to bypass DR/Evil or eat one's face.

I'll look into the possibility of adding the Align Weapon spell in a future release. I think the Disjunction tech might allow me to do something along those lines.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not promising anything concrete coming out of this, it might not be feasible.