5/1 Philosophy

[Mr_Ed7]

5/1 Philosophy: The belief that no matter how gimp or nerfed your character is, there will be 5 others (11 in raids) in the party that will aid you in your quest via team-work.

I think this is a good philosophy for new players who may be concerned about the effectiveness of their character, for people who's computers may be slower than others, for people who do not know the quests or are improperly equipped. This is also good for any other "alternative" builds that may not be as effective as they could have been.

This philosophy as helped make for an enjoyable time here on the game for several years with my many characters.

It has allowed me to accept others, whether they are new to the game, or whether their playstyle is different.

It makes for me to be a more open-minded party leader, and guild leader.

So live and let play.

[Aranticus]

it also allowed you to develop such a thick skin that you think nothing of making weak builds and let others carry you through....

[Mhykke]

I think that way of looking at things is a loser mentality, whether we're talking about a game or in life.

I don't enjoy being the weight that others have to carry. That's just me though.

[Mr_Ed7]

I think that way of looking at things is a loser mentality, whether we're talking about a game or in life.

I don't enjoy being the weight that others have to carry. That's just me though.

Oh no either do I, however there will be others you may have to carry though, that is not a "loser mentality", quite the opposite, it is a mentality of willing to help others.

[Borror0]

[...] it is a mentality of willing to help others.

How so?

[Mr_Ed7]

it also allowed you to develop such a thick skin that you think nothing of making weak builds and let others carry you through....

I do not let others carry me...if you are talking about my Pally...no one is carrying me yet, I have generally been an asset to the party. Of course this could change when I have to battle the evil portals.

What do you guys do anyway? See my posts and are like "Less get'em Ssisterss!"

[SableShadow]

What do you guys do anyway? See my posts and are like "Less get'em Ssisterss!"

I think it's really the same drive that leads you to post in the first place.

On Topic: That philosophy is fine...in theory...but it breaks down badly when you aren't 5/1 (11/1) but instead 2/4 (3/9).

[Aspenor]

Oh no either do I, however there will be others you may have to carry though, that is not a "loser mentality", quite the opposite, it is a mentality of willing to help others.

If by "willing to help others" you mean "have everybody else help me since I can't help them" then, yes, it's a loser mentality. Purposely building a character that barely can contribute is selfish. Selfish in the way that you would rather everybody else do the work while you pike off them.

[Uproar]

Just the usual *hate* crowd MR. Ed. Pay them no heed. I agree and I might say it can extend to 4/2 often enough if the quest is near level appropriate.

[Mr_Ed7]

How so?

It sort of when you have a party of 5 and you put up the LFM "any class" .
It does not matter what the 6th member is.

If you know that not all members have the same skill level you can expect to have one weakern party member, and thats ok.

Some forum posters are running with my comment of the "5 others" in the party will carry one weaker members slack. Which is true. I would not want to be that 6th weak wheel but according to some it will happen to my Pally.

Again luckily I have a guild of people & friends who are willing to work with various playstyles and build.

[Mr_Ed7]

If by "willing to help others" you mean "have everybody else help me since I can't help them" then, yes, it's a loser mentality. Purposely building a character that barely can contribute is selfish. Selfish in the way that you would rather everybody else do the work while you pike off them.

Good thing I did not make one of those! Besides if I have one guy that sucks I can always help with one of my 9 other guys.

[Thrudh]

One should always be trying to improve...

I'm always up for helping others... I'll take a newbie along on a 5/1 quest or 11/1 raid so they can learn the quest/raid, and get a chance to upgrade their equipment so that someday they'll be one of the 5 (or 11) instead of the 1.

The way you state your philosophy sounds to me like you're saying it's okay to be the 1 forever, because there will always be 5 or 11 to carry you...

That's a **** philosophy as far as I'm concerned...

[Aspenor]

Good thing I did not make one of those! Besides if I have one guy that sucks I can always help with one of my 9 other guys.

You may think that, but the way you've expressed yourself dictates otherwise. You're not actually asking for people to accept alternative builds (they do) or new players (again, they do). You're asking for people to accept you even though you willfully and purposefully built a character that is weak. Most people are willing to accept a non-OP character as long as the person playing it makes up for the deficiencies, and making a post about it isn't going to convince anybody to lower their standards in that respect.

[Aspenor]

The way you state your philosophy sounds to me like you're saying it's okay to be the 1 forever, because there will always be 5 or 11 to carry you...

This is exactly how I read it. This "philosophy" is not a philosophy, it's an expression of selfishness.

[bandyman1]

Look man, it's like this;


I'm sure your fighter/wizard is fun to play. Hell; It's one of my favorite combos from 1st and 2nd edition ADnD.

That said; When you join an endgame group, you are the one being pulled through. Every time. Now, most people don't really need all 6 spots filled by effective toons to pwn content in this game, but a lot of them are going to come to resent the fact that it is always you that is sucking up resourses, while contributing basicly nothing to the parties success.

Then you go and create another character that will contribute nothing in end-game.

You'd better have some pretty mellow friends is all I can really say.

And you'd also better hope like hell that no one that you run with consistantly adopts your philosophy here. Because 1 out of 6 ( or 1 out of 11 ) ain't so bad, but end up with 2-3 out of 6 ( or 4-5 out of 11 ), and you're basicly signing the death warrant for your guild. Skilled peeps tend to leave guilds that just can't " get it done " ( insuring that they won't ), and other skilled players tend to avoid them like the plague.

[Varr]

I find myself building porpously flawed characters now for the past year or so.....about even to my attempts to be perfect builds. Current examples would include my all cha pali, my two dagger only wielding spellsinger, my improved two weapon khopesh pure 16 sorc to name a few. Building a non optimal concept then fighting the gimpness thru gear, play skill, and embracing the flaw has really kept the challenge fresh to me.

[Cowdenicus]

I think that way of looking at things is a loser mentality, whether we're talking about a game or in life.

I don't enjoy being the weight that others have to carry. That's just me though.

Seriously +rep for the My Little PWNY thing alone......

That is so awesome.

[Phidius]

I find myself building porpously flawed characters now for the past year or so.....about even to my attempts to be perfect builds. Current examples would include my all cha pali, my two dagger only wielding spellsinger, my improved two weapon khopesh pure 16 sorc to name a few. Building a non optimal concept then fighting the gimpness thru gear, play skill, and embracing the flaw has really kept the challenge fresh to me.

I am the same way. However, it makes it easier to have one or two builds that are more acceptable to the mainstream community, as bucking the system - while challenging and fulfilling - is a tad tiring at times.

If you are a closed minded individual who sees the game through optimum-colored glasses, don't feel insulted - I used to be like that too.

[Healemup]

So what happens when you have all of the uber gear, have a pretty decent build, know all the quests inside and out, and still get accused of being a gimp to the party just because you used the arrow keys to navigate for 3 years...

You say, "thanks for caring guildies, you know how keep my small ego down...". And then you go about having fun and discovering new ways to die.

To the OP, I agree that not everyone has the time to play to make all of their characters as optimal as possible. And, I really don't mind gimp characters so much as idiotic play that results in adverse effects to the entire party. I accept it if the player hasn't run the quest a lot and they do something that is a result of that inexperience.

The thing that irks me is someone you know has been around for a long time and STILL can't seem to figure out what the heck is going on.

My best example is of a bard that was running a hound with me and REFUSED, literally REFUSED to buff the dogs at all. Had I known that in the beginning, I would have take someone who actually would have contributed to the raid. The main reason for a bard in the hound is for EXACTLY that reason. If he was a second or third bard, that of course is a different story... but I digress.

[Ralmeth]

I disagree with this 5/1 philisophy both in DDO and in RL. If you have the ability to carry yourself and be a contributing member to either a DDO group or society in RL, then you should do so. I can't stand people in RL that have the capability of contributing, but are too selfish and/or lazy to do so. They are a drain on our society and it is not fair to the people that do work hard. Instead, we should focus our help on the people who really need it.

Also this philisophy has nothing at all to do with being open-minded or not. Being open minded means that you are open to new ideas, different ways of doing things, understanding other people's points of view, etc. I wish more people would be open minded. However, just because you are open minded doesn't mean you have to accept someone who is leeching off the system.

In terms of DDO, I think it's great to understand that some people are newer to the game and they do not know the quests inside and out or know exactly the most uber way of building their character. I usually go out of my way to help newer players because some experienced players don't have the patience with them. It can be helpful to a newer person to share with them what you found works well. However this is only helpful if said person wants to learn, so that they can contribute more to the team next time. What is really anoying is when someone hasn't figured it out yet, but stubbornly and close-mindedly ignores any helpful suggestions that are given to them.