Planning start PnP with buds, 3.5 or 4.0?

[FluffyCalico]

The good thing is that people can still use AD&D 1st Edition and 2nd Edition. No one has to be limited to just 3.5 or 4.0.

While true those are the 2 choices the OP wanted to choose between

[Lextek]

AdnD 2ed.

When 3rd came out, I bought it, but it just didnt feel the same and I wound up buying and having bit of fun playing Neverwinter Nights which was using 3.0 , but by time 4th came out, its just not DnD as I remember playing it. Besides you can play DDO for kinda 3.5 feel.

Adnd 2ed, the good old days, for me at least.

[Uska]

should read before I post darn necro threads.

[whysper]

should read before I post darn necro threads.

Nah, it is not that old, and GURPS is still the best option anyway

[Krag]

Nah, it is not that old, and GURPS is still the best option anyway

GURPS is the same as D&D. Rules-light systems FTW!

[omastar444]

If you want interesting builds and more epic adventures go 3.5. If you want an easier game that feels more like an RPG video game go 4th. As for how many people you have, 4 is fine. I ran game with that many people quite often

Also for your friends question about being DM and fun, yes. Just not the same fun the players have. Juts tell him traps are fun, ambushes are fun, but just don't go overboard.

[RictrasShard]

Magnvix, if money isn't a concern, buy books from each edition and play a campaign from each. After that, you'll have a good idea which edition is more to your liking.

[Armair]

Ok I am a bit old school here, my advice to you my friend is invest in AD&D first addition. You can never go wrong with the older hard back books, you can take any module and fit it into whatever world you play in. 1st addition meshes very nicely with 2nd addition handbooks and if you really want to get old school pick up the best of Dragon Magizine ( Bronze, Silver, and Gold ) covers.

There world for old school stuff is fleshed out really well already all you have to do is weave your plot line into those world. If you prefer your world with a ton of magic as I do then Forgotten Realms if for you, if not then I would suggest Grey Hawk. Now be reminded that none of the rules for those worlds is set firm it will always be at your discretion. I just prefer those because the characters, bad guys, nobodies are all so well fleshed out that all u have to do is add you imagination and flare and it is ready to play.

Just remember to do one thing torture your players and have fun. GL

[DoctorBadWolf]

Nah, it is not that old, and GURPS is still the best option anyway

As much as I hate to admit it...yeah. It really is.

Well, unless you specifically want cinematic high fantasy, then I'm not sure. Haven't done any cinematic fantasy in gurps.

GUPS is the same as D&D. Rules-light systems FTW!

eH?

necro, I know, but I've been absent for a spell. :P

[Mr_Ed7]

I can run a game with a d20 and throw the books to the dogs!
That being said I found 4.0 interesting.

Perhaps I have not played enought to get a true appreciation for it...I may pick-up the box set...

I feel that the 3.5 rules were the ultimate culmination of years of D&D.
The d20 system that accompanies 3.5 makes DM-ing easy.

4.0 Does NOT lend itself to easy play in my opinion.

What I did do when playing 4.0 is that if I was not sure what to do, I thought of my 3.5 rules and continued.

and thats my 2cp

[DoctorBadWolf]

IMO, 4e makes for gameplay of varying degrees of easy-hard. the rules are really easy to explain to someone, and if you pay for one months sub to dnd insider you get everything in the character builder, without having to buy every single book to have all the options.
and of course all the errata is updated in the builder, which is nice. best part? you don't lose anything if you stop your subscription, you just don't get future updates after that point.
and there is some awesome stuff from the mags that aren't in any books yet, but are rpga legal. like the assassin, which isn't the most powerful class in the game, but sure is a lot of fun.

I just made an assassin/duelist rogue. he's going to be a lot of fun, with pretty reliable damage, a ton of skills, and a background that just makes me want to dance. :P

can't wait.

anyway, 4e's dmg has guidelines for handling actions which aren't covered in the rest of the rules, like gaining a benefit from swinging from a chandelier onto or behind the BBEG. the guidelines cover enough ground that you can handle **** near any situation that might come up.

also, by RAW there are much fewer limitations on character creation in terms of concepts. want to play a paladin/bard? why not? go for it.

there's just a lot that can be done, while allowing all the races and classes to contribute meaningfully, both in and out of combat.
want to play a dwarf bardic diplomat? sure. hell, you've got two builds to choose from that play to your strengths. one using wis, and one using con. (both as secondary stats, obviously. cha is the bard's primary.)

MrEd, I'm curious, what did you not like about it?
I don't want to challenge you, or "call you out" or anything silly like that. Just curious.
It's always possible some of it is stuff I've had to deal with as well. Might be able to give some advice, enhance your 4e games. Maybe even get you excited about it.* :P

and if not, hey, as long as you have fun, right?

*I figure being able to get excited about and genuinely enjoying the current, supported edition is preferable to both playing the current edition and not enjoying it, and playing previous editions with no hope of real support or new content. YMMV, of course.

[Uska]

Nah, it is not that old, and GURPS is still the best option anyway

I'd rather be on death row then play gurps hated that system since tft first came out way back when which had a lot of stuff SJ later used in gurps

[Bacab]

No I wouldnt have 4E is a combat sim and thats what I thought when I first tried it back in beta and what I still think and there are better combat sims out there. I really tried to like it and gave it a year as a player and gm and wont touch another WoTC dnd game again. If ddo ever becomes to much like 4E I am out of here.

I agree 100% ...though my impression of DnD 4.0

yay...they made a PnP WoW...

/emote pukes@the loss of 100$ (Players Handbook, DMG, Monster Manual)

I tried running a campaign in 4.0 (been a DM for about 8 years) and could'nt stand it. The monsters scale poorly.
The 1hp full stat monsters are completely stupid. Also the templates do not work very well.

To the OP...the correct answer is play Pathfinder. It is the people who made 3.0 and 3.5 and got ****ed at WotC and said...screw you I'll make my own game. It is fun and leaves the door open for classic "house" rules.

[Bacab]

3.5 (or paizo.com 's Pathfinder which is often referred to as V3.75) is my preference.


4.0 has less of an RPG feel and more of a miniatures wargaming feel. It's a good game and all, but not on the level of 3.(7)5 IMO.

That said, if you and your playgroup are fans of World of Warcraft, I'd go with 4.0. It takes a lot from that game (the mandated 'tank/DPS/healer' role assignment, extremely well done game balance, some ability for everyone to heal themselves although not as well as a 'healer' can heal them and more).

3.5 or 3.75 allows much more character customisation (note - this creates game balance issues once you reach level 12 or so), and doesn't pigeonhole players in the way that 4.0 does.

this

[epochofcrepuscule]

I suggest Pathfinders. Rules for combat tactics are simplified (no more arguing what the book says and how different people interpret it). I dont like there recommended point build system (I am a powergamer, I will kill my party if it means the next level -NE for the win).

If not pathfinders I suggest 2.0. Those 2 are my favorites!

-19 ac WOOT!!

[Bacab]

I suggest Pathfinders. Rules for combat tactics are simplified (no more arguing what the book says and how different people interpret it). I dont like there recommended point build system (I am a powergamer, I will kill my party if it means the next level -NE for the win).

If not pathfinders I suggest 2.0. Those 2 are my favorites!

-19 ac WOOT!!

To quote my buddy who played a CE Rog/assassin

"What are party members made of?"

"XP"

To be fair I did make him kill a party member to get his prestige class. He accomplished it in the middle of a fight. Was one of the coolest things to ever happen in out group. We still talk about it.

[BlargneyTheSecond]

Roll a d4 and play that edition. You'll have fun together no matter what.
-blarg

[Therilith]

4e is like a video game without the fancy graphics, automatic number crunching and fun.
It's basically just WotC trying to appeal to the WoW crowd. If you want a combat simulator your best bet would probably be to just pick up a computer game with LAN support.

I'd recommend either 3.5e or GURPS (although I've never played any earlier editions of D&D, so they might be worth a try as well).

[Krag]

4e is like a video game without the fancy graphics, automatic number crunching and fun.

Numerous repeating doesn't add any truth to a false statement.
4e is a great game if only because they made non-casting classes FUN to play.

[SquelchHU]

4e is like a video game without the fancy graphics, automatic number crunching and fun.
It's basically just WotC trying to appeal to the WoW crowd. If you want a combat simulator your best bet would probably be to just pick up a computer game with LAN support.

I'd recommend either 3.5e or GURPS (although I've never played any earlier editions of D&D, so they might be worth a try as well).

Yup. And Pathfinder is just some guy's house rules who heard 3.5 is filled with scary things but has no idea what or where those are, or how to fix them. Watching it try to fix 3.5 is like watching a blind party member stumble around the dungeon, and sometimes greasing them. Amusing, but entirely pointless.

As for play, well that goes like this:

Spam your dailies, which barely hurt anything. Spam your encounters, which hurt even less. Use the same at will over and over and over again until it finally dies. Repeat 289 more times, be forced to retire your capped toon, repeat ad infintium.

Let's compare to some other things.

3rd/3.5, non casters: Spam your at will over and over and over until it dies. While there's nothing else to spam first, you're still going to be saying 'I attack' a lot less than you would say 'I Tide of Iron' in 4th edition as combat ends in far fewer rounds. There's also fewer combats, 253 as opposed to 290.

1st and 2nd, non casters: Pretty much the same thing, except combat is even faster most of the time due to lower HP.

So no matter what you're going to be spamming the same moves, but when combat is quick (not 4th edition) you'll be spamming less.

Now let's look at what the spellcasters do.

1st and 2nd, casters: At level 1 you have exactly one spell. But beyond that it greatly depends on tactical circumstances. You have actual options.

3rd and 3.5, casters: At level 1 you're going to be using Color Spray and Sleep a lot. But past that, same deal.

4th, casters: Exactly the same top down spam grind as everyone else in 4th. Yawn.

Result: No improvement and mild downgrade for non casters, no improvement and massive downgrade for casters.