THF Human Paladin/Monk - need a little help :)

[Savroix]

My problem is that I am not familiar with current end-game play. When I last played the level cap was at 10th. I would like a Paladin that is not only "good" early on, but has end-game sustainability. This comes with a couple of caveats though:

1) He's gotta be human. I'm an old school AD&D player, and I just can't wrap my head around anything but a human paladin.

2) Two-handed Fighting. I realize that popular opinion states that TWF is superior, but, again, I like the old fashion paladin slaying demons with a two-handed sword. Surely THF isn't that bad?

3) 32-point purchase. I finally hit 1750 favor... go me!

4) Two levels of Monk. In PnP I always "splashed" my paladin with monk to better reflect the "monastic warrior" role. It seems that this might be advantageous in DDO as there's some popularity with the combo. I'm not sure how the Evasion feat works with the heavy armor though... I'm guessing I'm missing out on some end-game knowledge on that issue.

Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Lymnus]

First off. No evasion in heavy armor. Evasion only works in light armor, or no armor.

Wisdom bonus to AC only works in no armor. So, finesse based Pally/Monk is common. This lets them gain advantage from wearing a robe (typically DT or Icy Rams) and armor bracers. However, you want a human Paladin/Monk.

I highly advise you consider TWF with your paladin monk. But, if you want to THF, that's doable. I, however, couldn't make a decent build. But, for this build, I'd have to honestly say a halfling Paladin x/Monk 2 seems to be the best route.

Gratz on your 1750 bro, btw. Good luck.

[Baahb3]

First and foremost Evasion does not work in heavy armor, in fact it does not work in medium armor either, just light and no armor. So if you are looking to wear armor with this build, Mithril Brestplate will probably be the best you can hope for.

One other note on armor is that if you do decide to wear any armor you will not get your wisdom bonus to AC from taking monk so you may need to look at Dragon Touched outfit or Icy Rainments for your armor.

Other than that if you are not going to go TWF you can skimp a bit on the dex side of things as you will not have to qualify for GTWF and redistribute those points into the many other stats that this character will want.

Stats maybe something like

16-Str
14-Dex
14-Con
8-Int
12-Wis
14-Cha

or if you are not worried too much about AC drop wisdom down to 8 and bump Cha to 16. You can use an item to qualify to cast spells as a Paladin.

On feats you will want THF, ITHF, GTHF, Power Attack, and Improved Critical. On a character that only will get 8 feats that does not leave a lot of room.


Last note: more than 2 levels of monk for this guy would be a waste.

[Yargore]

2) Two-handed Fighting. I realize that popular opinion states that TWF is superior, but, again, I like the old fashion paladin slaying demons with a two-handed sword. Surely THF isn't that bad?

Yes, THF is that bad. Especially on a paladin as all their damage increases gains double effect with TWF.

Monksplashed DPS paladins are pretty hard to build though, you will have to spread your stats thin and make alot of sacrifices in the enhancements.

[Savroix]

Lymnus -

Hey, thanks mate. I'm just lucky I had a very generous guild mate help me out with that favor... had been trying to solo it with my Fighter. Wasn't too fun to say the least.

Thanks for the clarrfication on the feat/armor issue.

Baahb3 -

Thank you for the reply. I guess I should have added a few more details - yes, I certainly want a good armor class at end-game. That's where I've been having worries about my build. I want a good AC so if there are specific allocations I need to make to wisdom (for monk) or dexterity to attain this, please feel free to advise away.

Thank you both again for the feedback.

[Savroix]

Yes, THF is that bad. Especially on a paladin as all their damage increases gains double effect with TWF.

That's what I don't quite get... an example?

Monksplashed DPS paladins are pretty hard to build though, you will have to spread your stats thin and make alot of sacrifices in the enhancements.

I'm going to try my damndest... with a little help of course.


P.S.

I should add that I'm not looking to necessarily make the uber DPS machine - I just don't want to be the laughing stock in the Paladin Club.

[Yargore]

That's what I don't quite get... an example?

With GTWF you gain 2 'attacks' on every swing, one with main hand and one with offhand, and all the paladins damage increases adds the same amout of damage to one handed weapons as to two handed weapons (unlike strenght and power attack).

So for examle if you have Divine might III you get 6 extra damage per swing with THF, but 12 extra damage per swing with TWF.

I'm going to try my damndest... with a little help of course.


P.S.

I should add that I'm not looking to necessarily make the uber DPS machine - I just don't want to be the laughing stock in the Paladin Club.

Aslong as you take knight of the chalice, power attack, 15-16 start str and all level ups in str you'll be fine.

Do you have access to any tomes?

[bobbryan2]

Paladins are crazily slanted towards TWF currently.

Divine Favor - 3 extra damage with THF, 6 extra damage with TWF
Divine Might - x extra damage with THF, 2x extra damage with TWF
Smite Evil - one smite with THF, 2 smites for the price of 1 with TWF (and 2 chances to crit with khopeshes for that sexy 5x damage)

Other things to consider... to have even a passable AC, you'll have to invest in Dex and Wis. If you're investing in Dex anyways... it's almost foolhardy to go THF. The real bonus to THF is being able to dump your dex to 8 and use the extra points on Str and Con. That's obviously conducive to heavy armor... not robes and evasion.

Now... all of that isn't to say that you couldn't make a great character. Despite everything listed here, you could make it work. You just need to understand that it far less than optimized numerically.

If you want to use THF... I'd tell you to dump dex down to 8, use heavy armor, and forget about the extra monk.

If you want to use the monk, I'd tell you to put dex at 15 or 16, little bit into wisdom and take the TWF feats.

Mixing Monk with THF is much tougher.

[jakeelala]

i have a drow TWF pally 14/2 monk that will eventually be 18/2. They are fantastically survivable and a great deal of fun to play.

What's been said about the certain Pally abilities being twice as good with two weapons is not inaccurate, if you do it right you can double smite all the time and put up huge numbers. Also, you do get more attacks with the static +4 or +6 from divine might.

But you know what? Who cares.

You'll still have evasion with MONGO saves, great AC of the monk/pally combo (wis, dex and aura + gear), and you can get any prestige class you want. Just take some of the THF feats, and go to town. Now that all THF weapons have the same attack speed (well once mod 9 hits), I would stick with falchions, as they are the scimitar of THF with speed being equal.

i would also submit a bug report since divine might really should be subject to 1.5x damage on Two handed weapons like strength (ie +6 should be +9 THF)