Disappointment in The Playerbase.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

If someone left me for dead....without a word, I would leave group too.

No one should be left behind, unless you cannot go back for them, or need to recall to come back for them....etc.

Sorry you had such bad groups. We're not all like that.

(However, in Redfang, they usually cannot come back for you, and if they already went inside the Helm quest, they cannot come back for you....although they could have at least said sorry, and explained why.)

[KoboldKiller]

that was me and im just sick of all the threads on these forums blaming zergers and players for ruining others fun, my point is that ive been playing for years and didnt need anyone to babysit me through the game like others expect.

And I respect that point of view. I was just stating from my experience because people were more willing to help me it made it easier to enjoy the game and become a long term player. I didn't expect others to babysit me which is why I soloed a lot, but was very happy and surprised when people were willing to help me either with gear or teach me certain things about the game, builds, etc.........

I just think we should all remember when we were new and how we were treated or would have liked to be treated at that time and apply that to today's newer players.

[Lerincho]

that was me and im just sick of all the threads on these forums blaming zergers and players for ruining others fun, my point is that ive been playing for years and didnt need anyone to babysit me through the game like others expect.

you know me bro, willing to help out, but definitely not going to babysit and i think this is where the problem is. many new players want their hand held and baby sat on how to build or how to complete something. we were the pioneers and because of which all that we have done we feel that we have earned, unfortunately many of the new players feel they are entitled to these things. some of this has to do with conversion of this game from a game that required trial and error to an easy button game; while other portions of this "entitlement" comes from they are just MMO hoppers. They jump from one MMO to another to be instantly entertained and not have to work at it.

i welcome new people to this game. i hope that they can enjoy it as we have this past 3.5 years for most of us, some of us are on 4.5 years. what i am fearful of is that the over simplification of this game over the past 2 mods has placed too much emphasis on babysitting and holding people's hands instead of letting them experience, so much so that population is going to surge and ebb faster than a Florida beach because no one has the stomach for challenge anymore.

[Lerincho]

I just think we should all remember when we were new and how we were treated or would have liked to be treated at that time and apply that to today's newer players.

KK, we all remember we were new once. difference is, "we" did not expect things to be handed to us, we knew we would have to work for it. this is not how things are going anymore. too many new people feel they have just as much right to what we have earned.

[totmacher]

eh, this post kinda made me consider that red skulls could be a good thing for player retention

RED SKULLZ ROOLZ!!!!

[KoboldKiller]

KK, we all remember we were new once. difference is, "we" did not expect things to be handed to us, we knew we would have to work for it. this is not how things are going anymore. too many new people feel they have just as much right to what we have earned.

I agree with that statement. I did not expect anything to be handed to me nor did I expect anyone to teach me the game or quests. I concur with taking issue with those that expect to be hand held, but I also think if someone is new it really doesn't take that much extra time to slow down a bit in a quest so they can get a better idea of what's going on. I have been in a couple of groups where someone mentioned they were new and the group just ran off on them. I stayed behind and helped them through. BTW I noticed this sort of thing happens A LOT in STK, not sure why this quest seems to have this issue the most.

[Yurtrus]

heh.. I remember when we broke things cause we did not have any money at all and needed to pickup everything we could just to get a couple potions.. Boy those days were hell! but fun!

I guess what I am saying is that you can either take the time to learn or have the NEED to do it right the first time. I think most of the new players come from a place where they aquire all the best loot in a day and finish the game in a week mentality. This is no place for them.. well, now with the store it might be...

hmmm. What am I trying to say?.. I earned everything I have.. so should you???? maybe or " glad I got guilded, it really helped me make some good decision and have people to bounce ideas off of?" hmmmmm..

If you don't understand the above but are willing to learn, you belong here.. If you don't want to take the time to earn/learn you should leave right now..

Yeah I was just all over the place wasn't I? LOL

[Neebs]

First of all, let me start off by saying that i respect the play style of everyone, as long as my own is respected.

I started playing DDO a few days after the whole going free thing started, i had been wanting to try the game for some time (big D&D fan here although i've never played the PnP thing) and decided to pop in my trial CD that i had ever since i bought Neverwinter Nights a few years ago. Loved the game and decided i didn't want to wait for the game to go free so i hunted down a copy at a GameStop not too far off from where i live, bought it, entered my code and happily went online to start enjoing my game.

First of all, trial players can't send Tells....i had one or two random people message me asking me something when i was still on the trial and since i couldn't reply, in the end i got an insult (or several) in my face, i typically ignore this, but cmon...is it not common knowledge that trial players CANNOT send tells? ok, fine, maybe it's not, but helloooo....maybe i'm afk? :\

When i got my free 30 days game code and became a "regular" player, subscriber or whatever people want to call it, i made a new character because i had messed up my previous one, this time i started off playing a Wizard. Once i got out of Korthos and was i believe lvl 3 or 4 i joined a group (can't recall if i requested or if i was invited) which was doing the Redfang quest in the Marketplace (dunno if i got the name right, but it's the quest near the Catacombs entrance where you have to kill a spider in a basement), i ask where to get the quest, get shown and we all go down, it was my first time in that dungeon and everyone simply assumed i knew what we were doing or thought i would divine where every trap was, i was eventually left behind and in the end i got killed because we either didn't have a Rogue to disarm the traps or if we did, he didn't care to disarm them, everyone i guess thought "Why disarm the traps? we all know where they are and how to avoid them except the idiot newb Wizard". After lying there waiting for a bit and seeing that everyone ignored that i was dead, i rezzed out and left the group.

I eventually learned that that play style were zerg runs, but nevertheless i dropped into several groups who never hinted at doing a zerg run of the quest or dungeon in question yet they did it, leaving me ****ed off and wanting to throttle someone. Why? thats not how i'm playing, i want to take my time and explore the place, maybe once i get a character or 2 or 3 i will get so bored with the whole thing that i'll want to zerg it or maybe not, maybe i'll always avoid zerg runs. ATM i don't care for Zerg Runs, but inevitably still find myself in such groups.

Days later, i got a group together to do STK, all objectives....including Helm's Quest. Once the time came to do Helm's there was someone who didn't want to do it, said i only said ALL side objectives and that Helm's was a quest, not side objective. I conceed (sp?) the point, my bad...but there were still 4 votes for doing Helm's against 2 in favor of not doing it. What happens than? the group is split into 2, 4 of us going for Helm's and the other 2 trying to finish the quest, they were a ranger and i forgot what class the other guy was, but honestly despite it all, it was comical...would have given anything to watch the 2 idiots get pwned at the giant at the end of the dungeon. Nevertheless me and the 3 other's for Helms's went and did the quest and re-joined the other idiots, long story short, we got killed. Honestly, thats poor team play, if you didn't want to do Helm's from the very beginning, point it out and if the rest wanted to doing, go find another group, what happened here is that we went by voting, 4 voted in favor of Helm's, i think that should have cleared things up? idiots.

The next day i got ANOTHER group together to do STK and Helm's, this time on Elite...all went super smooth until we got to the giant, strategy was discussed, caster (me) goes in the left corner while the rest form a line and guard to prevent the giant from getting to the caster (me) while the caster (me) pommels the giant with Magic Missle, simple right? I guess that was too much fr our cleric to understand because instead of simply guarding, he started attacking the giant........

Now, usually Helm's is done AFTER part 2 of STK is finished, that way once we go in, do Helm's, we simply port out, sell loot, repair gear, etc and than go back down and enter part 3 from the sewers. Well, i got in a group this past weekend with my Cleric to do STK and Helm's, apperantly our caster wanted to do Helm's BEFORE finishing part 2, it can be done, but it's much easier to go with the above method. Well, we all go about breaking stuff for the extra XP and hunting the Witch-Doctors and the mage breaks group and runs for Helm's......and gets killed........and starts complaining...the rest of the idiots in the group follow the mage and go down Helm's and what do the bright heads do? leave the cleric......they didn't simply "leave" the cleric behind, but they left him DEAD. ***? i rez, wish them luck and leave the group.

My dissapointment in this game comes from the playerbase, not the game itself, the game rocks. Like i said at the top of my post, i respect everyone's play style as long as they respect mine, but when someone else's play style starts degrading MY experience, than i'm sorry, but respect goes out the window.

Is it to hard to simply state the intent and purpose of the group before starting the quest? i.e We're doing <insert quest name here> and we're skipping all side objectives, we only want to do the main quest, if everyone ok with that? or We are zerging this dungeon, is that ok with everyone? Don't get me wrong, SOME players put it up on their group ad, that their zerging the quest or whatever, but thats only about 2 out of every hundred players.

If you join a group, listen to the group leader or whoever's leading. Friendly reminder: If there's a rogue in the group, let him lead, his a rogue, rogue's disarm traps, nothing more annoying than being a rogue and seeing everyone run ahead and pass through the traps like dolts. Also, don't leave the Cleric behind and if possible, never EVER **** off the Cleric, traps can be by-passed (some times at least), but you won't heal on your own if you run out of potions and there isn't a shrine nearby. ****ed off Clerics won't heal your butt (at least i won't if you **** me off).

The experience has been so bad, that even my friend said that he didn't want to group with more than 1 or 2 players, why? because he was victim of a zerg run.

Grow up guys and gals, remembering proper etiquete (sp?) and being polite isn't THAT hard :\

Plus, it's only being nice!

This is exactly the kind of new playerbase that DDO wants and are shooting for while kicking us veterans to the curb.

[Delt]

First of all, trial players can't send Tells....i had one or two random people message me asking me something when i was still on the trial and since i couldn't reply, in the end i got an insult (or several) in my face, i typically ignore this, but cmon...is it not common knowledge that trial players CANNOT send tells? ok, fine, maybe it's not, but helloooo....maybe i'm afk? :\

"Someone sent me a rude /tell, so the whole playerbase is rude and sucks."

i ask where to get the quest, get shown and we all go down, it was my first time in that dungeon and everyone simply assumed i knew what we were doing or thought i would divine where every trap was, i was eventually left behind and in the end i got killed because we either didn't have a Rogue to disarm the traps or if we did, he didn't care to disarm them, everyone i guess thought "Why disarm the traps? we all know where they are and how to avoid them except the idiot newb Wizard". After lying there waiting for a bit and seeing that everyone ignored that i was dead, i rezzed out and left the group.

"We all entered the quest at the same time, somehow I fell behind. I died on a trap because I have no HP on my Wizard, like most new players. I sat there for a bit dead and didn't say anything. Someone should have noticed and when they didn't, I got angry, rezzed out and dropped group. Man those guys sucked!".

I eventually learned that that play style were zerg runs, but nevertheless i dropped into several groups who never hinted at doing a zerg run of the quest or dungeon in question yet they did it, leaving me ****ed off and wanting to throttle someone. Why? thats not how i'm playing, i want to take my time and explore the place, maybe once i get a character or 2 or 3 i will get so bored with the whole thing that i'll want to zerg it or maybe not, maybe i'll always avoid zerg runs. ATM i don't care for Zerg Runs, but inevitably still find myself in such groups.

"Any run that goes faster than I like is a zerg run, therefore it seems every group I join zergs. God the playerbase sucks!"

Nevertheless me and the 3 other's for Helms's went and did the quest and re-joined the other idiots, long story short, we got killed. Honestly, thats poor team play, if you didn't want to do Helm's from the very beginning, point it out and if the rest wanted to doing, go find another group, what happened here is that we went by voting, 4 voted in favor of Helm's, i think that should have cleared things up? idiots.

"Two idiots didn't want to do a quest they didn't sign up for. Those idiots should have known we were goin to do helm before they joined the LFM, because all most every STK group does helm (except zergers!). Anyway, long story short, we met back up after and wiped in STK. I blame the 2 idiots that didn't want to do helm, even though that's unrelated. God the playerbase sucks!"

The next day i got ANOTHER group together to do STK and Helm's, this time on Elite...all went super smooth until we got to the giant, strategy was discussed, caster (me) goes in the left corner while the rest form a line and guard to prevent the giant from getting to the caster (me) while the caster (me) pommels the giant with Magic Missle, simple right? I guess that was too much fr our cleric to understand because instead of simply guarding, he started attacking the giant........

"The cleric out-dps'd my spells on the STK giant...on elite. Man, idiot. So we wiped and wiping in STK is totally unprecidented in lowbie DDO! Man, the playerbase sucks!"

Now, usually Helm's is done AFTER part 2 of STK is finished, that way once we go in, do Helm's, we simply port out, sell loot, repair gear, etc and than go back down and enter part 3 from the sewers. Well, i got in a group this past weekend with my Cleric to do STK and Helm's, apperantly our caster wanted to do Helm's BEFORE finishing part 2, it can be done, but it's much easier to go with the above method. Well, we all go about breaking stuff for the extra XP and hunting the Witch-Doctors and the mage breaks group and runs for Helm's......and gets killed........and starts complaining...the rest of the idiots in the group follow the mage and go down Helm's and what do the bright heads do? leave the cleric......they didn't simply "leave" the cleric behind, but they left him DEAD. ***? i rez, wish them luck and leave the group.

"I may be new to DDO but I KNOW the way to do helm is after you finish Part 2. The group I joined didn't get this, but whatever, I'll tolerate their idiocy. Anyway, the mage dies, gets ressed and the whole party enters helm. Somehow between the start and the Kobold, I fall behind and die. As usual, I don't say anything. The idiot group doesn't immediately notice, so I get mad, rez out and drop group. Man, the playerbase sucks!"

My dissapointment in this game comes from the playerbase, not the game itself, the game rocks. Like i said at the top of my post, i respect everyone's play style as long as they respect mine, but when someone else's play style starts degrading MY experience, than i'm sorry, but respect goes out the window.

"If you let me fall behind or let me die, you are effecting my playstyle. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE. I will drop group, even mid chain, if you do!"

If you join a group, listen to the group leader or whoever's leading. Friendly reminder: If there's a rogue in the group, let him lead, his a rogue, rogue's disarm traps, nothing more annoying than being a rogue and seeing everyone run ahead and pass through the traps like dolts. Also, don't leave the Cleric behind and if possible, never EVER **** off the Cleric, traps can be by-passed (some times at least), but you won't heal on your own if you run out of potions and there isn't a shrine nearby. ****ed off Clerics won't heal your butt (at least i won't if you **** me off).

"Even though I've only been playing a few weeks, here is some advice that you all need to understand. If the playerbase can understand my words of wisdom, they should hopefully stop sucking."

The experience has been so bad, that even my friend said that he didn't want to group with more than 1 or 2 players, why? because he was victim of a zerg run.

"I know this post is supposed to be about zergers and I haven't yet really posted a single example...so here is one. My friend was a victim of a zerg once. True story."

Grow up guys and gals, remembering proper etiquete (sp?) and being polite isn't THAT hard :\

"Guys, if you let me die or fall behind, it is RUDE and inconsiderate. If you do that, I won't say anything but will stew and let the rage build in me until I rez out and drop group. Because that is the proper, nice and polite way to handle it."

--------------

I've met and helped tons of new DDO players. Probably far more than the noob-coddling, forum-warriors here have. But there is a difference between a NEW player and a NEW player that is forming selfish play habits, blames everyone else and has a know-it-all attitude.

By all means, invite this guy to your guild, show him the ropes (I wouldn't). But don't expect other players to read his idiotic rant and not comment on the hypocrisy of it all and the foolishness of his codemnations.

[Phantomizer]

@Mr_Ed: Thanks for the comments, by no means am'i quitting and neither is my friend, hoping to stay and bring some more friends in aswell, maybe we can find our own niche to fit in

@Zenako: I guess it is true, i play mostly during the day. Maybe i'm just seeing one side of the coin that DDO is.

@Heffty_Smurf: Ehhh.....not to be rude or anything, but maybe you should re-read what i posted? I did in-fact create my own groups, thats what i've been doing lately, No Zergers on the comments section has helped...ALOT, but still do get a rotten apple in every now and again.

@Delt: I'm here to enjoy the game and no offense, but if the group i'm playing with is not playing how i like to play even AFTER i ask if they are zerging or not, i'll drop group on the spot, why should i stay if i'm not enjoing the game? if you ordered food at a restaurant and you weren't enjoing it because it was cold, would you keep eating it?....lol..

@KoboldKiller: Good advice, thanks!

@Heffty_Smurf: No, no....i think you got it all wrong, somehow you must have mis-read it, THEY were the one's not listening to the leader (me).

@rnor6084: Nicely said, glad everyone doesn't think alike here.

@Roman: Otherwise known as: Frustration.

@Ganak: Being doing that lately, but thanks.

@Milamber69: Thats what i did and been doing. I have no issue following the leader of the group, but i expect the same when i'am the one thats leading the group.

@Hadrian: But by no means do i look down on those that just stay there dead. It's the player's choice, but don't ask me to do that. Nicely said.

@KoboldKiller: Nicely said again, maybe i don't want to stick out like a sore-thumb by doing something utterly stupid, but unfortunately thats not the problem, because in-fact i've been runnning my own groups lately, have met quite a few decent folks too.

@BoTooShort: Thats the short of it, again, if i make my own groups, i expect everyone to play my way, afterall, thats why the leave button's there, if i say "we're doing this and that" and someone doesn't want to do what i want to, leave, can't be any easier and everything's cool.

Too many other replies to keep trying to reply to everyone.

I'll just go out and say thank you toe veryone who's responded so far, even if some of them don't agree with me or see things my way. Respect if you want to be respected is all i'll say

[Lerincho]

oh sure KK gets commented to, but the rest of us just not good enough. pffft...


yeah yeah yeah, welcome to the game.


/stalks off
could have at least acted like you read all of them..... geesh.

[sephiroth1084]

That really sucks dude...both that you've had such poor luck in the game, and have attracted so many jackasses on the forums. Which server are you playing on?

Also, when you put up an LFM or join a group, AFTER you get in the quest, mention that you are new to the game and would appreciate someone to explain what's going on, and to possibly go at a slower pace.

I know that I tend to zerg the low-level stuff, and assume that people who join know what they're doing until evidence to the contrary becomes apparent, at which point I'll usually do one of a few things: slow the quest down, explain what's going on while we're running, or slow down myself to accompany the new player while the rest of the group moves ahead a bit depending on who I'm playing with.

Always important to make it explicit though, and to do so after you're in the quest, so that if the leader does turn out to be a ****, he has to discuss with you whether you should be coming along, rather than just be able to boot you.

[bobbryan2]

So you're in a group with people you do not know. You find a way to get killed, and no one comes to help you. No one gets your stone. They just run on to the next part and ignore you.

Are you telling me that you would not drop group? I know that I would.

Honestly? Probably not. No one is responsible for another's death. If I die, it's my fault. End of story. I'm not gonna blame someone else because I bit it.

In those situations, if it was too much trouble to come back for me, I'd recall out and run back if I could get bcak before they finish. Or I'd wait till they finish, get the xp, recall, and join up for whatever they're doing next.

This whole thread stinks of a lack of personal responsibility.

There are so very few moments when you're completely dependant upon another player to bail you out, that you need to take responsibility for what happens. That goes 10 times so at low levels.

[maddmatt70]

First off I am not an Argo player. Although some of the posters comments are a little harsh I see their point of view. Its posts like the OPs that contributed to Dungeon Alerts. Dungeon Alerts is an attempt to totally eradicate a specific playstyle i.e. zerging. If somebody posted something like this on Khyber I would probably hit them hard too. I should be allowed to play the way I like.

[Raegoul]

Congratulations on your first rant Phantom... looking forward to more of them.

[captain1z]

read the entire op but havent read the thread myself yet (i will after this)

my 2 cents.

- Im wondering if the op communicated thru chat or voice that he was new and unfamiliar with the quests?
- or did he silently sit back and let himself become the victom?

Did u ask for someone to disable the traps or just assume someone should?


While I think your time in the game is enough to evaluate how you feel about the game personally, I dont think its enough to judge how other people are playing the game.

Granted Ive been here since before day 1, so I learned as everyone else learned but up till last week I hed only done Prey on the hunted in reavers refuge...... no others. I got in a flagging group and did the others for the 1st time. while I had no idea what needed to be done I asked one simple question "what do u guys need me to do"? This I asked after telling them Ive never done this b4. They told me what was expected, I did it and kept up. If I had a question I asked.

Maybe its not the same thing but come august 6th I hope to see an end to these anti-zerging threads, which have now spilled over to the game as I see more "no zerging" LFM's.

When the F2P players come in there will be a large number of people who can sit back and learn the game together. Then 1 year down the road a new crop of players will come in and accuse the former new players of zerging. When they do, please be sure to inform them of how many times you've run quest X.

[sephiroth1084]

Honestly? Probably not. No one is responsible for another's death. If I die, it's my fault. End of story. I'm not gonna blame someone else because I bit it.

In those situations, if it was too much trouble to come back for me, I'd recall out and run back if I could get bcak before they finish. Or I'd wait till they finish, get the xp, recall, and join up for whatever they're doing next.

This whole thread stinks of a lack of personal responsibility.

There are so very few moments when you're completely dependant upon another player to bail you out, that you need to take responsibility for what happens. That goes 10 times so at low levels.

How is a new player supposed to take responsibility in this case? He gets into the quest, the group runs ahead, dodges the traps and doesn't say anything. He's not playing a rogue, so there's no way for him to take the traps down himself, and probably doesn't have spot so he can't even notice them, and if he feel behind the zerging group, he probably wouldn't even see them passing the traps to know where they are. Then gets killed. What's a player to do in that instance?

Now, I don't know if he mentioned that he didn't know the quest or not, but asking where it is should have been a clue, prompting the leader to ask at the very least.

Actions like this are why Turbine is doing flips and twists to squeeze the Dungeon Alert system into the game, and why so many people come on the forums complaining about a hostile playerbase. Then, unsympathetic asses feel the need to come to their threads with unhelpful, elitist comments, only further reinforcing the notion that the DDO community is an unfriendly one. This drives people away from the game.

[VKhaun]

Actions like this are why Turbine is doing flips and twists to squeeze the Dungeon Alert system into the game, and why so many people come on the forums complaining about a hostile playerbase. Then, unsympathetic asses feel the need to come to their threads with unhelpful, elitist comments, only further reinforcing the notion that the DDO community is an unfriendly one. This drives people away from the game.

Doubly wrong.
The player base is not unfriendly, ask a new player.
DA is for lag, not play style regulation.

[Vorn]

"Take chances, make mistakes, get messy!"

[sephiroth1084]

Doubly wrong.
The player base is not unfriendly, ask a new player.
DA is for lag, not play style regulation.

It depends which new player you ask. Did you read this thread?

As for DA being about fixing lag...I'm not entirely sure that that was the only motivation. After all, they could have fixed lag in several different ways.