28point monk? I just want to punch and kick sh--

[magnvix]

Sup

I have been watching these monks all over the place jump around and kick things with high AC and everytime i see em i say to myself: "Imma roll of those once I get 32pt"

Well I have yet to achieve 1750, or anything close. I'm not looking for the best monk on the server, if I'm missing a point or two in a stat, I don't think it will cause any party wipes.

That being said, I just want a monk. I want to fly around with all their cool abilities and neat skill names with crazy AC and this 10 DR being able to kick and punch my foes into submission. In my later levels, since im kicking and punching, I'll be using hand wraps, earlier on I've heard it is best to use q-staves until around 12, which is cool with me if that's the way to go. Currently, I'm playing a ranger made from back in mod2 or 3, just a vanilla ranger that we used to make back in the day. He's very self sufficient and is usually the last one alive when it comes down to a wipe. Will this type of monk be similar to that?

I'm assuming I'll be rolling human due to stat distribution, yea?

That being so, I was thinking:

Lawful Good Human - 14/16/14/8/14/8

Feats would include the TWF lines, toughness, and dodge. I also need help with feats apparently because I just tried thinking of some and those are the only ones that came to mind.

So, anyone that can help me out with what I just said, or completely change it, I'd like to get a few different perspectives on what I'm doing. Thanks.

[Mobeius]

Coming from a Human Monk... (re-post)

based the idea off my monk from PnP 3.5 in the fact that monks are one of the (if not THE) most M.A.D. classes (Multiple Attribute Dependency) out there. Next I based the fact off that the single best and biggest attribute for monks is Wisdom because it boosts will sves and your AC and the DC's for your attacks. Lastly, I went human for the extra feat and +1 skill point per level (20 free Skill points) and unless you are a wizard or fighter, ever class is feat starved. There was an old saying in my group about feats in 3E+ DnD. Feats > ALL I also based the thought sometimes your not going to be able to avoid damage from sheer AC alone, so I built my monk for damage avoidance/mitigation/and AC.

I would reccomend making a monk from a 32 point build, but a 28 point build is viable, but the monk has many stat needs, but if you have no interest in UMD, you can shave of charisma and UMD.

I am skill junky and a UMD junky, so I started both my Int and Cha at 12 and ate +2 tomes on all stats ex. A 25 UMD which allows me to use stonekin wands, 10th level wands like Expeditous Retreat and Shield. Boosting Int to 14 not only gives you 60 Skill Points (from starting at 8) but also allows you to pick up Combat Expertise. All of the wnad use allows you to do more things and/or save party/raid wipe. Sheild Wands rock, 5 to 10 minutes of shield and more importantly immunity from magic missles and force missle. Those and Searing light are my biggest killers.

I "beleive" my starting stats were. (or close to this). I cant recall exactly and I dont recall what I did on my leveling bonuses either. I think it +2 Wisdom and I think +1 Str or Dex. or it was +1 to Str dex and wis. Sorry its been awhile. The number in Parenthesis is the base numbers now.

STR: 14 (17)
DEX: 14 (17)
CON: 14 (16)
INT: 12 (12)
WIS: 15 (18)
CHA: 12 (14)

Starting from Level 1, the feats I would take are toughness, dodge, luck of heroes and use dragonshards to respec your feats as you level up and they become less useful. My feats I took are Dodge, the GTWF feat chain, Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Stunning Fist, Path of Light.

With the new Korthos Island stuff you can probably twink yourself out good with stuff till level 4 to 6 or check the vendors inside the Rusty Nail via the market place. Get Black Widow bracers from WW ASAP. Took me like 6 runs to get them, some get on their first.

I use HW primarily, but in the begining just use a staff till about level 11 when you have more attacks and your base fist damage is D10. Havent seen or recall how a level 1 monk is with his fists, but I think your best bet is 1/4 staves till you are higher in level and oyour monk fists do more damage than base weapon damage. When I started it was all about Kama's and Staves, I have some but I love the look of HW for flavor as well. I am always trying to upgrade out of Kamas to HW. I have Vorpal Kamas and debuffing kamas that I keep around. I have Incorporeal set of Kamas for the undead, still trying to get some raid items Tharnes goggles and Bracers and the Titan Belt. However, the ethereal part of magic items (IE: Ethereal Bracers, Spectral Gloves, etc.) still dont work with Handwraps as of yet, if they ever will, who knows.

The great thing about HW and equiping them is that whatever you use automatically is "dual weilded" with both effects, so you kind of have a buy 1 get 1 free mode which saves on space in your back pack. Even with all 5 slots, I still run out of room sometimes. I like using my Maladroit HW of Weighted 3% and +3 Acid HW of Weighted 5% or +3 Holyburst if they are stun immune (not to mention Greater Bane HW) mostly with stunning fists, especially with my bloodstone. 1st, if they can be Vorpal or Banished someone just took the kill, but you still win, too bad they dont have "assists" in game and not just kill counts. Also stunned mobs are autocritted and sneak damage energy drain items or stat damage items, so rogues and those with sneak damage benefit again, here again, your team wins but most people would hardly notice your impact on a mob and more than likely just play it off as just people doing good or no lag or anything other than a monks contributions other than DPS and surviving.

Between spamming stunning fists and weighted gloves, mobs get stunned quite a bit, red named mobs are immune to stun and quivering palm which works really well too. Giants in SOS cant be insta killed but stuns work just fine!

On Red named mobs though and tough fight mobs thats were I spam Eagles Claw and Unbalancing Strike.

All fights I try to spam fists of light (mainly for healing curse) and stike of the enduring 3 for additional DPS which stacks on your regular attacks.

For Example. Your using Holy Burst HW and you spam your flaming fist and lets say you critical.

You do you regular damage 2D8 + bonus + holy damage + plus burst damage + 2D6 Fire +2d6 Fire Burst Damage.

Strike of the Enduring 3 is 8 points of untyped damage and if you critical is 2D6 acid damage.

My Animal Path is not the norm either, I took Way of the Clever Monkey, at rank 4 it gives you +8 bonues to all your Energy resitances that STACK. +4 bonus to Haggle and Trap Saves too. Most others take way of the Tortoise or Crane. Yes it stacks with DT or GS items. I can hit a 43 Electrical Resitance now, with time and effort I think I can achieve a 48 Resistance in Fire, Acid and Electrical and 43 in Sonic and Frost and that would be on all the time.

I took all 4 elemental stances at Master Level, not sure if I can hit all 4 with Grandmaster when it goes level 20 though, but I will try. I need +3 Str and Dex tomes for Fire and Air, need +4 Con tome for GM Earth and I am GTG for GM Water Stance.

I took racial toughness 1 and 2.

Took Monk Wisdom 1 and 2 and Human Adaptability Wisdom. Allows you to gain +3 wisdom for 8 AP instead of 12 AP's

Next, I took Monk and Human Recovery I, which boosts the amount of healing you recieve, and wholeness of body IS affected. Just going from Human Recovery II and Monk Recovery II to just Level I in each reduced my wholeness of Body from 25 per tick to 21 per tick. I can recover about 80% of my HP with the smaller one and just cap off with other healing if need be.

Also took. Lifting the Veil, Difficulty at the Begining, Restoring the Balance, The Receptive Earth and Finally Rise of the Phoenix. Restoring the bBalance iis great, espeically in VOD, you turn on fire stance and target the tank and just manually swing at Suul and if you see a curse icon, bam, no curse and it was free and saved someone a potion, or mana.

Finally, I took Fists of Light, Eagle's Claw and Unbalancing Strike. Fists of Light causes healing curse (and 2d6 damage to undead), which allows all people swinging to heal 1 to 2 HP per hit which is awesome healing.

I didnt start of this way, but thats my current configuration that I like that balances a great many things as well as contributes to the Party/Raid tremdously.

I perfer Humans, but WF I think are good due to the abilties they get, however as a monk some things like poison and disease, but I tink WF have some sort of neg energy immunity too I think. Halflings are good for AC builds, and I am sure the other races are good. This my choice and preference and not to say humans are the best class for monk but I do like the free feat and the extra +1 skill point per level.

Windstance is the best stance of the four in my humble opinion when comparing all of them. However, the other stances have their places and usefulness for various reasons.

Firestance, I use it for Ki generation in the begining of a fight, or help me add more to DR penetration or if I need to raise my strength to use a lever or punch through doors.

Earthstance: I use it for DR and DR blocking or to run through terrain and minimize damage. if you have 25% stride, dont let the earth slow movement thing bug you, LOL you will still outrun normal PC's.

Waterstance: if I am trying to land debuffs from fists, land stunning fist or quivering palm, I have this one on, if there is a need for high saves, I use this stance. with a +5 resistance item and water stance and Greater Heroism, my saves are Fort and Reflex both at +26 and Will save +30, not including luck bonuses or raid bonuses. Often times in water stance my saves are all at 30+

My AC is on the lower side right now, can self buff my AC to about 55, raid buffs around 60 to 64. Little more time and effort for items, I beleive I could achieve 60 self buffed, 67 to 70 raid buffed but. thats further and later in the road as I am still trying to get Insight Bonus to AC on my DT Robe and some other raid items.

Guess this is enough for now. Any questions?

[rimble]

I prefer Halfling, even for Strength-based. You'll never pull aggro, and those Halfling Guile sneak attack Enhancements really add up.

I have:

TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Toughness
Stunning Blow (he's Strength based)
Stunning Fist
Power Attack
Improved Critical: Bludgeon
Weapon Focus: Bludgeon (probably need to swap that out for something more useful)

Stats were:
Str 14
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 16
Cha 8

Maybe go with a 14 Wis on a 28-pt build, but probably better off with a 12 Strength and going with Finesse on a 28-pt build.

[hu-flung-pu]

Good stat distribution.

Other then the two weapon fighting feats. You might want to consider things like toughness and power attack and cleave. I'll go over a couple here that you might want to consider on your monk.

Toughness: As a melée class you only get 8 hit points per level. That puts you on par with Rangers. But even Rangers don't have to sacrifice CON with lower level stat distribution.

Power Attack: This one isn't a necesity. In fact, it's essentially just setting you up for cleave. But that +5 to damage helps sometimes.

Cleave: This one is a god send. Especially if you're in fire stance. Let's say you just spent your ki on using a finisher. Hit cleave and every bad guy you just hit gave you an instant ki bar ready to go and land a quivering palm or stunning fist.

Improved critical: Bludgeon: Essential for your DPS. Especially with on crit ki strike effects. It's probably your biggest jump in DPS outside of two weapon fighting.

Skill focus: Concentration: Not essential, but remarkably helpful if you're in wind stance a lot which lowers your hit points and your concentration skill. This feat can also be replaced with monk concentration enhancements.

Dodge: +1 dodge bonus to AC. It sets you up for mobility.

Mobility: An additional bonus to AC when tumbling. If you have the twitch skills for it jumping in to water stance and tumbling in to a fight means you have a +8 bonus in water stance. That means that you can land the first blow easily and if you get in over your head tumble out of combat with less chance of being hit

Spring attack:This is helpful. It can allow you to get rid of the -4 to hit when running around. I've used this with great success on a couple of monks. It works extenely well with your super fast run speed allowing you to run out of the way of the bad guys weapons and hit him from behind.

[Rekker]

Sorry Mobeius but that build wouldn't really help. If he doesn't have access to 32 pt builds chances are he doesn't have 6 +2 tomes either

[Aerendil]

Best advice I can offer is to go here:
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Class:Monk

Scroll to the very bottom, and read up on stances, finishing moves, and the like.
Then scroll through enhancements and look at what you might aim for.

There's plenty of ways to build a Monk, and a lot of decisions to make. Quarterstaff? Kamas? Unarmed? Dex-finesse build vs. Str build? Race? Light path or Dark? Animal path? What skills do I want to focus on and am I leaving myself short on points? Do I want Combat Expertise (13 Int required), GTHF (high Str req.) or GTWF (high Dex req.), Power Attack (13 min Str)? Or all of the above?

But to answer your question - yes, if you just want to punch and kick stuff, then Monk is for you (or even a Monk/Fighter-Kensai hybrid going unarmed).

[Mobeius]

Sorry Mobeius but that build wouldn't really help. If he doesn't have access to 32 pt builds chances are he doesn't have 6 +2 tomes either

Its only a base model, he can always scale it back for a 28 pt build, its not critical, he can drop the CHA and UMD and that makes up for it. +2 tomes can come in time. Nothing says you have to have one right this instance, in fact the only tome I would recommend poping asap would be +2 int tome, the others can all wait.

[magnvix]

Thanks for all the input.

I think I'm gonna stick with the stats I have currently, as human.

Feats, I'm gonna do : Dodge / TWF / Toughness / Power Attack / Cleave

Enhancements is where I am stuck next. I know I want wind stance, but as far as the other stances go, do I get them at all, only take one other or what? And for other enhancements, I'm clueless as well seeing as I've never actually rolled human before and same with monk.

[hu-flung-pu]

On the feats, are you leaving room for all three two weapon fighting? That's important.

Another thing is, why dodge? It's a +1 stackable bonus. I think a better fit would be to go weapon finesse. But only if you think your DEX score will be four points higher then your strength. Any lower difference, and it might not be worth it. The feat means that your to-hit bonus is based off of dexterity, instead of your usual strength bonus. If you're in wind stance, it might be worth looking in to.

Now for your enhancements.

YES! Take the highest tier stances that you can! These are the back bone of the class!

That's why it's important to boost stats high. To gain access to the flexibility of the class. Each stance offers different bonuses that can make the difference. Going beyond just the static bonuses, you open up better ki strikes like strike of the enduring that help boost your damage out put. They also make it easier to pull off finishers which is the bread and butter of the monk. Instead of having one type of ki strike and waiting for six seconds you can fire off two strikes of the same element that you need. So if you want to pull off breath of the dragon. You would need Fire-fire-fire. If you only had one fire strike you would need to wait six seconds each time you needed it. If you have two you would only need to wait six seconds once instead of 18. It makes a massive difference. And finally you need a minimum of tier two stances to unlock your recouperative and offensive strikes. Which just moves your versatility and dps further up the bar.

I would recommend human versatility and both monk and human improved recovery. As for your animal style choose one that suits your play style. If you find yourself relying on front line fighting, consider tenacious badger or patient tortoise. if you find yourself flanking and attacking behind the monsters as they attack fighters and barbarians take up faithful hound. It gives you benefits to hit. Pick one to your play style and your build.

I've said a mouthful so I'll leave it at that.

[magnvix]

On the feats, are you leaving room for all three two weapon fighting? That's important.

Another thing is, why dodge? It's a +1 stackable bonus. I think a better fit would be to go weapon finesse. But only if you think your DEX score will be four points higher then your strength. Any lower difference, and it might not be worth it. The feat means that your to-hit bonus is based off of dexterity, instead of your usual strength bonus. If you're in wind stance, it might be worth looking in to.

Now for your enhancements.

YES! Take the highest tier stances that you can! These are the back bone of the class!

That's why it's important to boost stats high. To gain access to the flexibility of the class. Each stance offers different bonuses that can make the difference. Going beyond just the static bonuses, you open up better ki strikes like strike of the enduring that help boost your damage out put. They also make it easier to pull off finishers which is the bread and butter of the monk. Instead of having one type of ki strike and waiting for six seconds you can fire off two strikes of the same element that you need. So if you want to pull off breath of the dragon. You would need Fire-fire-fire. If you only had one fire strike you would need to wait six seconds each time you needed it. If you have two you would only need to wait six seconds once instead of 18. It makes a massive difference. And finally you need a minimum of tier two stances to unlock your recouperative and offensive strikes. Which just moves your versatility and dps further up the bar.

I would recommend human versatility and both monk and human improved recovery. As for your animal style choose one that suits your play style. If you find yourself relying on front line fighting, consider tenacious badger or patient tortoise. if you find yourself flanking and attacking behind the monsters as they attack fighters and barbarians take up faithful hound. It gives you benefits to hit. Pick one to your play style and your build.

I've said a mouthful so I'll leave it at that.

Regards to feats I think I've got enough slots available for Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Finesse, and the TWF line.

Human bonus 1
Feat Progression 1,3,6,9,12,15,18
Monk bonus 1,2,3,6

12 feats -

1: Finesse, TWF, Toughness
2: Power Attack
3: Cleave, Harmonious Balance
(lv4 Stat to Dex for Base 17)
6: ITWF, Great Cleave
9: Dodge
12: GTWF
15: Mobility
18: Spring Attack

For the animal path, I'm going to do the hound because as generally that is what I'm doing (running around behind enemies).

How I am gonna play this monk is probably running, kiting/sitting behind enemies, generate ki fast via great cleave and wind stance, finishers... sounds about right, and more importantly, fun. Stance dancing of course if the situation calls for it. (traps / boss fights / other stuff) But mainly I'll be using wind stance

[jboyd158]

Regards to feats I think I've got enough slots available for Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Finesse, and the TWF line.

Human bonus 1
Feat Progression 1,3,6,9,12,15,18
Monk bonus 1,2,3,6

12 feats -

1: Finesse, TWF, Toughness
2: Power Attack
3: Cleave, Harmonious Balance
(lv4 Stat to Dex for Base 17)
6: ITWF, Great Cleave
9: Dodge
12: GTWF
15: Mobility
18: Spring Attack

For the animal path, I'm going to do the hound because as generally that is what I'm doing (running around behind enemies).

How I am gonna play this monk is probably running, kiting/sitting behind enemies, generate ki fast via great cleave and wind stance, finishers... sounds about right, and more importantly, fun. Stance dancing of course if the situation calls for it. (traps / boss fights / other stuff) But mainly I'll be using wind stance

Use this feat progression...

1. Power Attack/TWF/Toughness
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Cleave/Harmonious Balance
6. Dodge/Great Cleave
9. ITWF
12. Mobility
15. GTWF
18. Spring Attack

This is all assuming those are the feats you have settled upon.

[magnvix]

Use this feat progression...

1. Power Attack/TWF/Toughness
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Cleave/Harmonious Balance
6. Dodge/Great Cleave
9. ITWF
12. Mobility
15. GTWF
18. Spring Attack

This is all assuming those are the feats you have settled upon.

Ok will do, thanks.

[Greydeath]

Use this feat progression...

1. Power Attack/TWF/Toughness
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Cleave/Harmonious Balance
6. Dodge/Great Cleave
9. ITWF
12. Mobility
15. GTWF
18. Spring Attack

This is all assuming those are the feats you have settled upon.

I would skip the cleave line...

[Aerendil]

I would skip the cleave line...

Agreed. I guess it boils down to how you play your Monk. Some people enjoy, and get quite good at, clicking that Cleave button every time it refreshes.

Myself, I can't be arsed. I'm much busier using my Monk special attacks/finishers to worry about other clickies. But that's not to say others can't pull it off.

Try it out, I guess, and if you don't like it simply respec it later on. Plenty of other things to choose from.
Might even be nice to keep a swappable feat or two on your Monk for the future in the event they ever implement the Whirling Steel Strike line.

[jboyd158]

I would skip the cleave line...

I don't suggest it, but his feats were in an order that is impossible to take them, so I just reordered them for him.

[grakkath]

I don't suggest it, but his feats were in an order that is impossible to take them, so I just reordered them for him.

What would you suggest?

I like the original poster really havea huge interest in the monk over anything else and I would deal with playing a 28 pt build - so what would you put forth as a race /stat points/enchancements and feats for a monk?

[Mobeius]

What would you suggest?

I like the original poster really havea huge interest in the monk over anything else and I would deal with playing a 28 pt build - so what would you put forth as a race /stat points/enchancements and feats for a monk?

That depends on what kind of monk you would like to build.

[jboyd158]

What would you suggest?

I like the original poster really havea huge interest in the monk over anything else and I would deal with playing a 28 pt build - so what would you put forth as a race /stat points/enchancements and feats for a monk?

My monk is level ten and set up like the following...

Halfling Monk
28 pt.
Str: 12
Dex:16
Con:12
Int: 10
Wis:16
Cha:8

Skills that I advanced: Tumble; Concentration; Move Silently; Hide

Feats so far...
1. Dodge/TWF
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Harmonious Balance/Toughness
6. Stunning Fist/Toughness
9. ITWF

He was Water and Wind Stance II and the first tier of the other stances. He also has Elegant Crane and Halfling Cunning/Guile.

[Aerendil]

^^ Looks solid.
Pick up a +1 STR tome when you can and get Power Attack. You won't regret it.

*edit* - doh, didn't notice the 2 toughness feats. Well-spotted Hu.
Definitely ditch one of those and pick up something else.

[hu-flung-pu]

I don't understand builds like this.

You cut down on your flexibility, you NEED +2 tomes to qualify for your tier 2 stances in earth and fire to unlock things like eagle claw and enduring strike. Which slows down your ability to fire off finishers.

Then on this build you went harmonious balance, which limits your buffs to 10% spell point reduction and blur with any kind of reliability. Imminent domination suits this type of monk better where you have a need for high hit and monk DC's. To pull off auto crits reliably where your strength isn't necessary. Instead of toughness you could also go precision for a guaranteed hit and all you'd need is to focus on WIS for your finishers. Go crane path and you'll never run out of ki.

Cleave in his build makes much more sense then two toughness feats. Because he'll be able to generate ki in a crowd and keep firing off mass cures and healing curses.