Different Thinking

[illeatyu]

Im new to DDO but I have been playing DnD for 28 years, long live Gary Gygax.

It seems to me that there is two ways to play DDO, you can play the way WOW gamers play, race to end game and have the leet dps. Or you can play the way we used to in the old days, get some mates, put together a group that you want to play and have some fun. We use Skype so we can talk, in game voice is not so good. And we put together a group that we want to have fun with, I am a theif, ranger and I am having a ball with it, hes not leet dps but hes good in the group dynamic.

I have been reading a lot of the forums and I think they may give people the wrong idea, we are not WOW we are DnD, we like to do quests, solve puzzles, disable traps, or am I missing something.

Cause I left WOW to come here because of the things I like.

If you like your toon, then play it who cares if its leet.

[rezo]

That's the same reason I left wow myself. Most people are only thinking about "End Game" and don't let them fool you about that. The forums are great way to show prof of that. Sure you can find "fun builds" but the Trolls come out and tear it a part.

[Gorstag]

You enjoy playing through the content and are enjoying the game from what it is worth to you. There is no reason to flog you over making your statement because your right, play your toons however you want. But to some of us, there is honestly little enjoyment left in this game for the lower lv content. I've been playing for three years, have all character slots filled, and that ole content is rather stale, to me however. So like you, I play my character how I enjoy playing. There is honestly nothing wrong with either playstyle dude, and I hope you continue playing and enjoying the game as you are.

[illeatyu]

Thats cool and I can understand and appreciate where you are coming from, all I was attempting to do was remind the new guys like me that it's not all about end game raiding.

I played WOW from pre BC to lich king and have done lots of raids, but ill tell ya last friday night when my level 1 theif disabled a trap for the first time I just about wet my self, the next one i tried blew up, and I did wet myself, but it was heaps of fun.

And I am looking forward to a lot of good long nights dungeoneering with my mates, one of whom was my DM for a good number of years.

[Lewcipher]

It's all about what you enjoy about the game. Nothing more nothing less. Some have been playing a while, and some are new. Don't worry about the forums. There is some really good info you can get out of it if you need to though. Info that SHOULD be in the game itself.

Just sayin...

[Demoyn]

Sure you can find "fun builds" but the Trolls come out and tear it a part.

Nobody will ever give you grief for playing a buid you enjoy in a static group like you're talking about. The reason we tear builds apart is because the people with those builds typically join PUGs and have to have their horrible builds carried for them.

I myself have made a few "fun" characters also. The only difference is that I incorporate enough crunch in them so that I don't tank a party. A good designer can turn any "fun" build into a well-designed, above average character.

[Samadhi]

A good designer can turn any "fun" build into a well-designed, above average character.

Can I quote that? I like.

[ariel7]

Im new to DDO but I have been playing DnD for 28 years, long live Gary Gygax.

It seems to me that there is two ways to play DDO, you can play the way WOW gamers play, race to end game and have the leet dps. Or you can play the way we used to in the old days, get some mates, put together a group that you want to play and have some fun. We use Skype so we can talk, in game voice is not so good. And we put together a group that we want to have fun with, I am a theif, ranger and I am having a ball with it, hes not leet dps but hes good in the group dynamic.

I have been reading a lot of the forums and I think they may give people the wrong idea, we are not WOW we are DnD, we like to do quests, solve puzzles, disable traps, or am I missing something.

Cause I left WOW to come here because of the things I like.

If you like your toon, then play it who cares if its leet.

wrong forum?

[Uska]

Thats cool and I can understand and appreciate where you are coming from, all I was attempting to do was remind the new guys like me that it's not all about end game raiding.

I played WOW from pre BC to lich king and have done lots of raids, but ill tell ya last friday night when my level 1 theif disabled a trap for the first time I just about wet my self, the next one i tried blew up, and I did wet myself, but it was heaps of fun.

And I am looking forward to a lot of good long nights dungeoneering with my mates, one of whom was my DM for a good number of years.

Thanks for making me laugh and I do play both ways I really enjoy trying to play classical dnd style but sometimes groups wont let me so I just go with the flow. I hope you and your friends enjoy the game for a good long time.

oh yeah and +1 for making me laugh.

[illeatyu]

I don't think so, I was reading the posts about multiclasses as I have one and wanted to see who was doing what, thats when I noticed that a good majority of the posts were end game related, so I thought I would make a post.

I suppose it could be moved to the general game chat and if the moderators wish to do so I have no objections.

And from +1 a nice elven long bow would be good, oh and a quiver, and some arrows and some elven chain and some,

Sorry got excited lol

[Jay203]

A good designer can turn any "fun" build into a well-designed, above average character.

i challenge that statement!
change "designer" to "player" and i'll agree

[ariel7]

I don't think so, I was reading the posts about multiclasses as I have one and wanted to see who was doing what, thats when I noticed that a good majority of the posts were end game related, so I thought I would make a post.

I suppose it could be moved to the general game chat and if the moderators wish to do so I have no objections.

And from +1 a nice elven long bow would be good, oh and a quiver, and some arrows and some elven chain and some,

Sorry got excited lol

Well, fair enough. I just was caught up in the differing games aspect of your post, seeing it as more the prime thrust of your argument. The majority of builds, and I would contend ALL builds are end-game focused. My reasoning for that contention is that, for example, I could decide to try a 3 paladin 2 ranger 1 rogue. That's 6 total levels and I could say "Wow, at level 6 I love this build". I have 2wf for free, can disable all the traps around my level, am immune to fear, this is my favorite build ever. I find it unreasonable to expect to find 5 steady grouping companions without any aspiration of all of running Delara's 100 times, never progressing to areas like the Desert, (where you can't even get xp bc you're so low) and so on. Hey, when I first started, I spent entirely too much time in lowbieland, and as I'd get a little further along, I'd become a little less happy with a build. Now, I'm aware that there ire several dozen different quests, but the 10th time through or so, you're gonna get sick of them, at least, this is my view. My example is a bit extreme, yes, but for illustrating my point only.

So you build for level 6. (That's what I'm understanding from a multi-classing perspective) but you, imho, are much better served laying out a build at least to level 16 (current end-cap) and better to level 20 before you ever, ever, ever roll it in reality. That's why you see evasion is nice to get on your second rogue level, but to maximize benefits, waiting another level might be better off. I also challenge the nothion that it's either total rush to end game, or meander slowly and only then have fun. I recently begin working seriously on my second cleric, he's a beast and currently at level 14. I enjoyed watching his progress in those favorite old quests, but was a lot more interested in seeing how well he'd solo Devils.

If people being overly "serious" about their runs or questing appear to not be having fun, it is possible that 1 looting efficiently is fun for those persons, and 2 that maybe they don't have fun in waterworks anymore. maybe they just want to get to the vale type stuff, where, for them, they can finally have fun.

Me, I have fun at all levels. I just can't stand waiting on people to theatrically role-play to fill every group slot or open a door. That stuff belongs at table-top, imho. I'm 32 years old and married, and have little time for role-playing...in a video game. I never wish to ruin someone else's fun, but I think some of the anti-get it over fast people also fail to appreciate that it is they, who in pursuit of the last 4 boxes for ransack have ruined someone else's fun, and are just as responsible for those that they see as being maniacs for creating a sense of unfulfillment form the gaming experience.

This is why lfms, imho, should have a feature that allows the leader to have it color-coded and blatantly obvious, we're role-playing, we're going at average speed, we're running like mad. Whatever it is, it is incumbent upon the party leader to let potential members know, and for potential members to find out before joining so as to not perpetuate this "zergers" versus "box-breakers" mentality.

Sometimes I like to take my time in a quest, but more often than not, I would rather get out of the marketplace and into raids. No, Tempest Spine is not a raid. I don't care if 12 people can join it, there's no timer, no good loot, no reason to run it ever except once if, like me, you insist on getting favor with every single character.

I think everyone in the ddo experience would be better served to find like-minded guilds and run with those that share their given philosophies. I run with a very good friend of mine, he usually is in a roll playing guild. When he feels the need, he comes along with some of my other friends and we run like fools. Sometimes, I feel the need to just have fun in a different way, and I run with his role-players, even trying to go along as well as I can...because none of these groups are involuntary. Getting along with others, making your own play style apparent, BEFORE getting in the quest, and respecting the wishes of the group...non of these are mandatory, but all, I believe, make for a happier experience from all sides.

[Demoyn]

Can I quote that? I like.

Please do.

[Demoyn]

i challenge that statement!
change "designer" to "player" and i'll agree

We're talking about two different things, though. A good designer can make any fun build into a force. That's not to say, though, that it will be played to its potential. You give me just about any "fun" concept and I can make it work in the game of DDO.

A good player can also take a semi-gimped character and excel with it. There are some build designs, though, that just can't be above average no matter how good the player is. Take a warforged sorc with a 6 starting charisma, for instance. There's only so many things you can do as a player to not be a party sponge.

[Kriogen]

Yes, build must be fun for you. It's a game, must be fun or it's pointless. But as game is group oriented, it must also be fun for others.

Also, theres a difference between fun and stupid.

[VKhaun]

It seems to me that there is two ways to play DDO, you can play the way WOW gamers play, race to end game and have the leet dps. Or you can play the way we used to in the old days, get some mates, put together a group that you want to play and have some fun. We use Skype so we can talk, in game voice is not so good. And we put together a group that we want to have fun with, I am a theif, ranger and I am having a ball with it, hes not leet dps but hes good in the group dynamic.

The problem is that a large chunk of the players know the content like the back of their hands. If you group one of them they will ruin it unless they follow in the back. They don't need to find anything, use any hints, they know how to bypass dangers, where the best items are, what's worth grabbing and the best way to grab it. They know what skills are worth taking, weapons are worth using, and stats are worth having.

And the worst part is, at the end of the day, they're right.

If you'd been left to figure it out on your own, you'd have done it exactly how they show you after a few deaths and rerolls. Trouble is, that figuring it out is what made the difference to you from WoW to DDO. Once you group a long time player, it's just that much closer to following NPC directions in WoW.

[Thrudh]

Im new to DDO but I have been playing DnD for 28 years, long live Gary Gygax.

It seems to me that there is two ways to play DDO, you can play the way WOW gamers play, race to end game and have the leet dps. Or you can play the way we used to in the old days, get some mates, put together a group that you want to play and have some fun. We use Skype so we can talk, in game voice is not so good. And we put together a group that we want to have fun with, I am a theif, ranger and I am having a ball with it, hes not leet dps but hes good in the group dynamic.

I have been reading a lot of the forums and I think they may give people the wrong idea, we are not WOW we are DnD, we like to do quests, solve puzzles, disable traps, or am I missing something.

Cause I left WOW to come here because of the things I like.

If you like your toon, then play it who cares if its leet.

This game is EXCEPTIONALLY fun if you play it with a static group... I played nearly every quest in the game for the first time with a group of 2 RL friends... The 3 of us (cleric, barbarian, bard/rogue) had the best time exploring new dungeons... never knowing what was around the next corner, never knowing how far the next shrine was... even always being broke made the game fun... lucky chest pulls really meant somthing...

We repeated plenty of quests too for exp (and when we discovered Tangleroot end-rewards, we hit that quest like 5-6 times - fun quest too - and you'll never see the underwater elemental room with a bunch of zergers, but cool when you find it with your static group).

We played with PUGs as well... but only on repeats...

We just made sure to do each quest for the first time only with our group. It has a real PnP feeling to it...

Of course now, those two are long gone, and I'm an end-game raiding powergamer, but I'm glad I got to experience this game the "right" way when I started... I'm very careful not to ruin new players' experiences, but a static group is the best.

[sigtrent]

Most folks started the game taking their time and learning the quests etc...

As you play longer and longer you get better and faster and you become more achievement oriented in your play. There is also a certain kind of joy and challenge of mastering and executing fast runs in quests and there is little waiting around while other people shop or load into zones or fix their microphones etc...

Personally I like most approaches to the game. I'f I'm the lost guy in a zerg I just explore the area pick up crumbs and wait for the quest to finish, take my XP and say thanks.

If I'm zerging along and someone falls behind I tend to try and go back for them unless they are uncommunicative. Radio/chat silence + poor performance tends to make me not care about the lost sheep unless we are talking levels 1-3 in which case I understand they may be terribly confused by it all but when speed running at low levels I generally do it alone.

My #1 rule for leading quests is to let everyone know what to expect up front, find out if anyone needs extra instruction. As a party member my #1 rule is to select the most experienced player and follow them, also to ask questions any time I am unsure of what to do.

You will run into some jerks, I advise you don't play with them. Once the jerk radar goes off, politely excuse yourself from the group and find a better one.

Anyhow, enjoy your new player status. There are some awesome sights and adventures in the game to experience. Take your time. As you play more you will start to enjoy the speed runs and such as a quick way to advance your characters and test your game skills.

For me the best runs are those where the group is challenged up to, but not beyond their limits or those where the group operates with such skill its like a killing ballet.

Above all, have fun out there.