Best Axe for Shroud?

[Khurse]

Hey all
Going to be a bit of time before my Barb gets to the Shroud, but I'm trying to clean up some bankspace so I'm wondering which of these would be best until I can build him a GS Axe.

+2 Wounding Silver GA of Pure Good
+5 Transmuting Flametouched Greataxe
+1 Holy Greataxe of Greater Evil Outsider Bane

Or will none of these work well enough, and I should start saving. (Noticed GA's seem to be a tad pricey on teh AH)

I know GS will be better- but I've really not run the shorud (think I've got maybe 5 scales between my capped sorc and cleric) so if you can advise which might work best until I can build up the inventory-It'd be appreciated.


Thanks!

[Lewcipher]

Silver of Pure good will take care of all the red names in there until you get one crafted. It will bypass all Orthon/Devil/Pitfiend DR requirements.

[cm2_supernova]

Hey all
Going to be a bit of time before my Barb gets to the Shroud, but I'm trying to clean up some bankspace so I'm wondering which of these would be best until I can build him a GS Axe.

+2 Wounding Silver GA of Pure Good
+5 Transmuting Flametouched Greataxe
+1 Holy Greataxe of Greater Evil Outsider Bane

Or will none of these work well enough, and I should start saving. (Noticed GA's seem to be a tad pricey on teh AH)

I know GS will be better- but I've really not run the shorud (think I've got maybe 5 scales between my capped sorc and cleric) so if you can advise which might work best until I can build up the inventory-It'd be appreciated.


Thanks!

+2 Silver GA of PG = 1d12 + 1d6 + 2 = 6.5 + 3.5 + 2 = 12 base /swing
+5 Xmuting FT = 1d12 + 5 = 6.5 + 5 = 11.5 base /swing
+1 Holy of GEOB = 1d12 + 3d6 + 2d6 + 1 = 6.5 + 10.5 + 7 + 4 (1+3) -15 = 13 base /swing

So the Holy of GEOB is the best among the 3

Silver of Pure good will take care of all the red names in there until you get one crafted. It will bypass all Orthon/Devil/Pitfiend DR requirements.

Any of those 3 weapons with beat DR/Good which Orthons/Devils/Cats have

[Lewcipher]

+2 Silver GA of PG = 1d12 + 1d6 + 2 = 6.5 + 3.5 + 2 = 12 base /swing
+5 Xmuting FT = 1d12 + 5 = 6.5 + 5 = 11.5 base /swing
+1 Holy of GEOB = 1d12 + 3d6 + 2d6 + 1 = 6.5 + 10.5 + 7 + 4 (1+3) -15 = 13 base /swing

So the Holy of GEOB is the best among the 3

On normal, yes. I wasn't thinking.

[cm2_supernova]

On normal, yes. I wasn't thinking.

No worries homey...but you're right, the Holy of GEOB will only be best assuming a dr of 15. On Hard\Elite difficulties those numbers change and the GEOB will be less effective.

[BlackSteel]

but if he has the THF feats then the last one is actually less damage even with the extra dice. The DR all but eliminates your glancing blows if you dont bypass the DR.

I'd use the +5 transmuting, the .5 less damage a swing is worth it in order to have a higher to hit on the pit fiend.

[cm2_supernova]

but if he has the THF feats then the last one is actually less damage even with the extra dice. The DR all but eliminates your glancing blows if you dont bypass the DR.

I'd use the +5 transmuting, the .5 less damage a swing is worth it in order to have a higher to hit on the pit fiend.

Although I agree with you about the 2HF feats and glancing blows (which admittidley I didnt take into consideration) the +5 Xmuting is inferior to the silver\PG.

If you are a barbarian and are having a hard time hitting the pit fiend on normal you got bigger issues than the type of Axe you are using

[mediocresurgeon]

The +5 Transmuting Flametouched is going to be the best DPS on any difficulty in The Shroud. It bypasses DR, both on your primary swing and your Glancing Blow(s).

[cm2_supernova]

+2 Silver GA of PG = 1d12 + 1d6 + 2 = 6.5 + 3.5 + 2 = 12 base /swing

+5 Xmuting FT = 1d12 + 5 = 6.5 + 5 = 11.5 base /swing

The +5 Transmuting Flametouched is going to be the best DPS on any difficulty in The Shroud. It bypasses DR, both on your primary swing and your Glancing Blow(s).

Please explain...is my math wrong?

[Kistilan]

Please explain...is my math wrong?

Pending on strength scores... your 15% bonus to hit with a +5 vs a +2 can effectively cause many more hits vs misses and do more damage over time (DOT).

[mediocresurgeon]

The difference lies in whether or not Pure Good (+1d6 damage) is better than a +3 to hit and damage.
+15% to hit might mean you land an extra blow or two, such as a low roll early in your attack chain. Also, the +.5 damage per swing you get on your primary strike from Pure Good ignores that the enhancement bonus of your weapon affects your Glancing Blow damage just as a high strength score would. Even if glancing blow damage was as low as 33% of your raw damage bonus, this would favor a +5 weapon over a +2 pure good weapon by +0.5 damage per swing (accuracy aside).

[sirgog]

Comparing all three:



Normal:
The first weapon is a +2 weapon, with +3.5 damage for Pure Good and +15 for beating DR.
The second is a +5 weapon, with +15 for beating DR.
The third is a +5 weapon, with +7 for Holy and +10.5 for GEOB.

+1 Holy of GEOB is optimal, but only just. Note that the first weapon might occasionally miss on a roll of 2 or 3 on the first attack in your chain (but probably shouldn't, Harry's AC is very low)


Hard:
First weapon is a +2 weapon, +3.5 damage (PG) and +30 (beats DR)
Second is +5, +30 damage (DR)
Third is +5, +17.5 damage.

Clearly weapon 3 is weakest. The second weapon will be superior to the first, as although the first does 0.5 more damage per successful hit, most characters can miss Harry on hard with a +2 weapon and a roll of a 2.

Elite: Same order as Hard, but the differences are greater.

[Aranticus]

The difference lies in whether or not Pure Good (+1d6 damage) is better than a +3 to hit and damage.
+15% to hit might mean you land an extra blow or two, such as a low roll early in your attack chain. Also, the +.5 damage per swing you get on your primary strike from Pure Good ignores that the enhancement bonus of your weapon affects your Glancing Blow damage just as a high strength score would. Even if glancing blow damage was as low as 33% of your raw damage bonus, this would favor a +5 weapon over a +2 pure good weapon by +0.5 damage per swing (accuracy aside).

assuming max str full barb

str = 18+4lvl+2tome+6item+10rage+6madston+rage = 46 = 18 mod

attack = 16+18+4gh+2recite+2item-8PA = 34

with a +2 weapon = 36
with a +5 weapon = 39

harry has an ac of 41 on normal

this is what micro meant

ps: did i leave out anything?

[cm2_supernova]

assuming max str full barb

str = 18+4lvl+2tome+6item+10rage+6madston+rage = 46 = 18 mod

attack = 16+18+4gh+2recite+2item-8PA = 34

with a +2 weapon = 36
with a +5 weapon = 39

harry has an ac of 41 on normal

this is what micro meant

ps: did i leave out anything?

Fair enough...I guess I wasnt counting on the -8 for PA. However, with a couple of bard songs that would pretty much put the barb back on a "miss on a 1" with either.

Again though, when taking the 2HF feats into account I think that makes up for the extra .5/swing that the PG has over the Xmuter...so I suppose I retract my original statement and go with the Xmuter.

[Shade]

Fair enough...I guess I wasnt counting on the -8 for PA. However, with a couple of bard songs that would pretty much put the barb back on a "miss on a 1" with either.

Again though, when taking the 2HF feats into account I think that makes up for the extra .5/swing that the PG has over the Xmuter...so I suppose I retract my original statement and go with the Xmuter.

He's also counting triple madstone = which isn't possible. Only goes to double.

And recitation - in which I find I never get on shrouds about 75% of the time. And +2 item - not every barb has the spectral gloves..

Take those out ,add in bard songs and your in the same boat.

Barbarian's use +5 weapons. Minimum. More to hit means more power attack enhanvems and more DPS.

Your math also never accurately calcuated glancing blows. No one even knows the correct formula as its a special system not advertised. The extra +3 on the axe could add +1 dmg on the glancing blows, making the comparison +3 dmg per swing (9 on crits) and +1 on glacning blow hits, vs +3.5 average, that cannot critical.

The correct answer is much more complicated:
Transmuter for Arraetrikos
Holy of Greater Bane for Red Named Cat/Devil/Orthon
Wounder for trash - IF others in party are using them too. Else Vorpal.

And make a Mineral II asap, as none of those will be great post mod9 =)

[Khurse]

Wow that's alot of math.. lol

Thanks all,- so they're going to be OK for Shroud runs or should I try and grab something different before I can craft the Greensteel. (Which I guess should be Min 2..)

And make a Mineral II asap, as none of those will be great post mod9 =)

And (if I may again demonstrate my low Intelligence score)- why will these change in Mod 9?

*I've also got a vorpal of greater evil outsider bane (think it might be min lvl 16 though)- would it be better for trash mobs?

[Freeman]

And make a Mineral II asap, as none of those will be great post mod9 =)

At least with respect to the Shroud, none of these weapons will function any differently in Mod 9 than they do now. The first two will still bypass the DR, and the third won't.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

The +2 Wounding Silver GA of Pure Good is definitely better on all difficulties.

The wounding also will do stat damage on Harry when mod9 arrives, lowering his fort saves thus making spells such as Symbol of Pain and Disintegrate more likely to hit.

Garth

[gfunk]

The +2 Wounding Silver GA of Pure Good is definitely better on all difficulties.

The wounding also will do stat damage on Harry when mod9 arrives, lowering his fort saves thus making spells such as Symbol of Pain and Disintegrate more likely to hit.

Garth

I thought the stat damage would only work on red names, and not purple?

**edit.. bah, I can't believe I wasted my 1000th post here.. not that its not a worthy topic or anything, but I was going to save it....

[Leyoni]

assuming max str full barb

str = 18+4lvl+2tome+6item+10rage+6madston+rage = 46 = 18 mod

attack = 16+18+4gh+2recite+2item-8PA = 34

with a +2 weapon = 36
with a +5 weapon = 39

harry has an ac of 41 on normal

this is what micro meant

ps: did i leave out anything?

I only miss Harry on a 1 and don't have anything near these numbers working for me AND I dual wield. But, when I enable power attack I start missing on anything 7 or below. I use +5 transmuters.

So, I think that without PA the OP will have no issues hitting, his damage will be less but he won't be missing. With PA he will miss more often (whether he has max STR is unknown, same with recitation, madstone, etc.). But, I don't have all those things going for me and only miss on 7 or less. My guess is that with all those added effects he shouldn't be having trouble hitting even if PA is on.

Edit: changed "miss on 2" to "miss on 1". I hit on 2+ w/o PA.