16 Str really that bad?

[Khurse]

So I may (admitting nothing) have started my Barb with a 16 str /16 dex/16 con.
Was in a group last night, pretty much the entire told me to reroll now (lvl 6) as by the time I capped I'd be missing not starting at 18.
isn't it a simple -1 to hit (and damage) over someone starting with an 18?
First melee toon, so I completely admit I may be missing something, but I don't see a -1 to hit as game breaking at cap.

Am I missing something?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

So I may (admitting nothing) have started my Barb with a 16 str /16 dex/16 con.
Was in a group last night, pretty much the entire told me to reroll now (lvl 6) as by the time I capped I'd be missing not starting at 18.
isn't it a simple -1 to hit (and damage) over someone starting with an 18?
First melee toon, so I completely admit I may be missing something, but I don't see a -1 to hit as game breaking at cap.

Am I missing something?

Just take every level up in STR, get the STR rage enhancments when they become availalbe to you, and you will be fine. There are just a lot of "min/maxers" out there who try to squeeze every 0.1DPS out of every build.

[Draccus]

You're fine. Unless you have another pressing need to reroll (you changed your mind on Skills, you don't like your nose, you realized that dwarves are so ugly that it's not worth the small benefit to play them, etc.), then keep what you've got.

[dopey69]

You're fine. Unless you have another pressing need to reroll (you changed your mind on Skills, you don't like your nose, you realized that dwarves are so ugly that it's not worth the small benefit to play them, etc.), then keep what you've got.

funny +rep

[Shade]

It's just that every single point of strength really does matter. Maybe not game breaking, but it can make a difference. And Barbs don't really have much other stats that benefit them much, so maxing 1 stat just makes sense. I can understand on a 28-pnt TWF build going 17 str. not 16. THF should always be 18.. TWF 32 pnt should be 18.

It's not "just 1 to hit, 1 dmg"

It's +1 to hit - for 2 rolls, and +1.5 to damage minimum. Because THF = 150% str bonus, or TWF = 100% mainhand, 50% offhand.

And the to-hit counts twice because GTWF = 2 roll per every attack. THF = 2 rolls per most attacks (glancing blows have a roll too)

Then also: -1 trip, sunder, stun DC. -1 to jump skill. -1 to str savaes vs knockdown.. Str effects allot for a barb.

Personally I have 1 TWF barb taht started 17 str and it annoys me.. But he has been capped for years with allot of raidloot so i cant bring myself to reroll him.

Lvl6? reroll.. Because it takes some players 3-4 hours or less to get to 6.. If it takes you a ton longer then that... i dunno.

[spifflove]

16 is fine on my halfling.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It's just that every single point of strength really does matter. Maybe not game breaking, but it can make a difference. And Barbs don't really have much other stats that benefit them much, so maxing 1 stat just makes sense. I can understand on a 28-pnt TWF build going 17 str. not 16. THF should always be 18.. TWF 32 pnt should be 18.

It's not "just 1 to hit, 1 dmg"

It's +1 to hit - for 2 rolls, and +1.5 to damage minimum. Because THF = 150% str bonus, or TWF = 100% mainhand, 50% offhand.

And the to-hit counts twice because GTWF = 2 roll per every attack. THF = 2 rolls per most attacks (glancing blows have a roll too)

Then also: -1 trip, sunder, stun DC. -1 to jump skill. -1 to str savaes vs knockdown.. Str effects allot for a barb.

Personally I have 1 TWF barb taht started 17 str and it annoys me.. But he has been capped for years with allot of raidloot so i cant bring myself to reroll him.

Lvl6? reroll.. Because it takes some players 3-4 hours or less to get to 6.. If it takes you a ton longer then that... i dunno.

Barb, 44 STR, GS Min II GreatAxe, force ritual, DPS = 85.52
Same Barb, 46 STR, DPS = 87.87

Additional damage with 2 STR, 2.7%.

Assuming you are one of 4 melee attacking a red named at high level, you 2 STR shortage will result in the boss dying 0.7% slower. How much difference do you think that actually makes?

Yes, max STR gives you more, but not enough that anyone would notice. You might as well worry that your Barb is gimp because he only has a +1 tome and not a +3.

You get a larger difference based on player skill, caster/bard buffs, correct weapon for the job, etc.

[Burtle]

You're fine. Unless you have another pressing need to reroll (you changed your mind on Skills, you don't like your nose, you realized that dwarves are so ugly that it's not worth the small benefit to play them, etc.), then keep what you've got.

ROFL +1 rep on the dorf reference...LOL...dude that's tooo funny

[Gornn]

So I may (admitting nothing) have started my Barb with a 16 str /16 dex/16 con.
Was in a group last night, pretty much the entire told me to reroll now (lvl 6) as by the time I capped I'd be missing not starting at 18.
isn't it a simple -1 to hit (and damage) over someone starting with an 18?
First melee toon, so I completely admit I may be missing something, but I don't see a -1 to hit as game breaking at cap.

Am I missing something?

You'll be fine! Don't even worry about it. Just make sure you put all your level bumps into strength.

[Samadhi]

I very rarely start any non-caster with maxed of any attribute anymore. In earlier incarnations of the game (think original tempest spine), it was pretty necessary to start with 18 Str on melees, because the AC of certain mobs was virtually impossible without getting every point you could. That is far from the case these days; and it makes 100% sense IMO to take advantage of more total stat points by less min-maxing.

[Phidius]

I very rarely start any non-caster with maxed of any attribute anymore. In earlier incarnations of the game (think original tempest spine), it was pretty necessary to start with 18 Str on melees, because the AC of certain mobs was virtually impossible without getting every point you could. That is far from the case these days; and it makes 100% sense IMO to take advantage of more total stat points by less min-maxing.

Agreed - 2 for 1 is a hard bargain to pass up, let alone 3 for 1...

[Asketes]

i'm a forum zerger, so i only read most of the original post..


a 16 str isn't gonna kill you vs an 18. it's a -1 to atk and damage.. big whoop.. you can now eat a +1 dex tome for your greater two weapon fighting (instead of using a +2)..

if you stay pure, at lvl 20 you will get a +2 ham bonus to str from a prestige enhancement

[Drekisen]

I concur......ur starting stats are actually very good, in fact I would even go so far as to say with the level 20 increase coming in mind u would be ok with only 2-3 level up points in str and the rest con.

Either way, u have a solid build with those starting stats and u can always swap feats and enhancements later if u choose to change ur path somewhat.

[boldarblood]

If you are going to be spending a lot of time with raid gear / tomes / etc. Then yes I would reroll. If you are a casual player, do not worry about it. As the charcter is playable.

Every point makes a difference. If you are going to plan to raid the heck out of the character, and deck the barb out with all shroud items, tomes, etc. There is no reason NOT to maximize all your stats. I play from a power gamer point of view, and I do not think you should waste all the tomes/items/etc on a character that is not fully optomized.

[Roman]

Your paying a huge premium in build points to go with 18 strength. But the typical raged up 2H barbarian is hitting for +50 damage. So an extra 1.5 dmg is about 3% more DPS. And if you're in the d20 window where your missing on more than a 1 then the extra +1 to hit is giving you an extra 5% chance to hit.

Best case scenario 18 strength will give you +3% DPS and and extra 5% chance to hit. What other stat will give you as much benefit on a barb.

• DEX: Reflex save is difficult to get high enough to really be worth the build point investment, unless you splash rogue for evasion and invest in items to boost reflex save. Could be worthwhile but requires careful planning and equipment.
• CON: An extra 22hp and a few seconds more on rage are not even close to being worth the build point cost.
• INT: I'm a skill point junkie, but at best your getting 1 more skill or half a cross class skill. Probably not worth the investment.
• WIS: Higher will saves are always nice, but again, another +1 probably not worth the cost.
• CHA: Helpful for intimidate, and possibly UMD, although its hard to get a useful UMD ona pure barb. And, if staying pure barb, I would rather put the points into STR.

16 Strength won't kill you, but is the extra Dex really buying you anything useful? If your not multiclassing, and not picking up evasion and have no plans for TwF then put the points into Strength.

From a min/max perspective you should max out strength. But that said, I never min/max I always build balanced builds. And by staying with your stats the way they are you will be in a better position to adapt to future changes in game mechanics and you have the option of going TwF later if you want.

Good luck, and have fun

[boldarblood]

I concur......ur starting stats are actually very good, in fact I would even go so far as to say with the level 20 increase coming in mind u would be ok with only 2-3 level up points in str and the rest con.

Either way, u have a solid build with those starting stats and u can always swap feats and enhancements later if u choose to change ur path somewhat.

I dont agree with this advice at all. Do not put your points into Con, wtih already lower strength, not maxing out strength would gimp this character.