Monk/Pally uber, but how?

[arcanehealer]

I recently ran with a paladin/monk and he was absolutely uber. Since i ran with him i have been trying to come up with my own monk/pally build but i just cant figure out how. I just cant figure out how to make the stats work to make this a good build.
Any help?

[Demoyn]

Here's a hint... charisma 8.

[Yajerman01]

there are many pally/monk builds out there but it depends on how you want to set him up, i.e. dex/str based and what race you want. Once you are firm on those two initial concepts, then I am sure the rest of the uber forum chatters will chime in.

[Wutinni]

Here's a hint... charisma 8.

I disagree,

UMD > a mild increase in DPS or AC

[arcanehealer]

there are many pally/monk builds out there but it depends on how you want to set him up, i.e. dex/str based and what race you want. Once you are firm on those two initial concepts, then I am sure the rest of the uber forum chatters will chime in.

I want him to be dex based, Human, and twf.
Also should i do paladin or monk for lvl 1?

[Phidius]

I can't claim personal experience with this, but I don't think the Monkadin uses Chr as a dump stat or for UMD.

Saves, LoH, and Divine Might come to mind.

[Yajerman01]

I want him to be dex based, Human, and twf.
Also should i do paladin or monk for lvl 1?

You get more skill points at level 1 picking up monk first.

[kuro_zero]

Have been thrashing around this idea for a while now in the character planner. With any multiclass build it comes down to balancing sacrifices made and benefits gained.

Generally for stats are more or less even across the board - a build like this can not afford to spend more than 1 build point per stat. This isn't as bad as it seems, enhancements, +3 tomes and +6 stat items all can shore up your stats. And most likely higher bonuses will come down the pipes (+4 and maybe even +5 tomes eventually, and possibly +8 stat items). Its designed for end-game. There will be growing pains until you can get all the gear (and it IS very gear intensive)

I liked two build philosophies while playing around with the generator:

First - drow rapier finesse build

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement 
             Base Stats    Modified Stats 
Abilities    (Level 1)      (Level 1) 
Strength           14                14 
Dexterity          16                16 
Constitution       12                12 
Intelligence       12                12 
Wisdom             13                13 
Charisma           13                13

Shifted around depending on the +2 tomes you have. One important shift could be -1 WIS, +1 CHA for 18 CHA min req for Divine Might III with a +4 tome. Level up stats in Dex, use a monk bonus feat for weapon finesse, and eat a +1 INT for Combat expertise req. 1st level Monk for skill points, or can start Paladin for weapon finesse early.

You're going to be relying on your smites, DS, DM, power attack, and Knight of the Chalice PrE when Mod-9 goes live for DPS. Alternitively, you could go Halfling, -2 STR, +2 CON but without rogue I don't think you can unlock Halfling Guile racial enhancements. It does open up for Dragonmark heals, but your feats are tight as is with the TWF feats. This is a much more defensive build, forgoing DPS for AC.

Alternatively, a human STR based Khopesh DPS build:

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement 
Abilities    Base Stats    Modified Stats 
(32 Point)    (Level 1)      (Level 1) 
Strength           14                14 
Dexterity          15                15 
Constitution       14                14 
Intelligence       11                11 
Wisdom             11                11 
Charisma           14                14

Obviously you need +2 Dex tome for ITWF and GTWF req. Bonus human feat used for Khopesh proficiency. As above, first level monk for skill points, or Paly first level for BAB req for khopesh prof. Human stat versatility used to even out your scores as you loot/pull tomes. +2 int tome needed to qualify for combat expertise. Level up stats in STR. You sacrifice quite a bit of AC for greater sustained DPS and DPS vs. non-crit and non-evil outsiders (with Mod-9). You still get combat expertise, and I haven't done the math but off the top of my head AC difference is around 5-6 from drow/halfling finesse build.

The only possible dump stat you might have is INT, but I feel if you're going to do a monk splash might as well pick up Combat Expertise.

[riexau]

Does the casting of spells still knock you out of CE? With short duration spells like DF and zeal, I personally would not put the points into INT, nor use a feat on CE.

Toughness > CE

[Yajerman01]

Does the casting of spells still knock you out of CE? With short duration spells like DF and zeal, I personally would not put the points into INT, nor use a feat on CE.

Toughness > CE

That comes down to playstyle. I myself have CE on my dragon marked halfling and while everytime I cast a heal my CE drops, CE is sweet to have when you dont need to cast. Of course my mutliclass does not cast a whole lot so its more feesible plus I have 11 levels of fighter = more feats to expend. Although he does have 2 LOH I dont recall 1 way or the other if his CE drops on that, i dont think it does. As for other Pally spells, most are usually done pre-attack anyway, plenty of time to hit CE and then fight.

[Phidius]

...Alternitively, you could go Halfling, -2 STR, +2 CON but without rogue I don't think you can unlock Halfling Guile racial enhancements....

Phidius is taking all of the Halfling Cunning/Guile enhancements without a rogue splash. I think of it as being a built-in Tharne's Goggles that stacks with the Tharne's Goggles

[kuro_zero]

Does the casting of spells still knock you out of CE? With short duration spells like DF and zeal, I personally would not put the points into INT, nor use a feat on CE.

Toughness > CE

Don't see how you can't get both, since you get 2 free feats for each monk level to take toughness and CE. I'm at work and my builds are saved at home, so don't have them on hand ATM but I believe both builds picked up Toughness, CE, Power Attack, and the TWF lines. Human, btw. Also, Mod-9 will see a boost to the duration of zeal and divine favor by caster level (30 sec + 6 sec per caster (Paly) level)

Phidius is taking all of the Halfling Cunning/Guile enhancements without a rogue splash. I think of it as being a built-in Tharne's Goggles that stacks with the Tharne's Goggles

Good to know - my halfling ignorance has been exposed. But then again, Paly are very AP starved and it will only get worse with the PrE requirements.

[baddax]

Does the casting of spells still knock you out of CE? With short duration spells like DF and zeal, I personally would not put the points into INT, nor use a feat on CE.

Toughness > CE

QFT. and CE and Toughness are monk class feats.

[Taojeff]

Does the casting of spells still knock you out of CE? With short duration spells like DF and zeal, I personally would not put the points into INT, nor use a feat on CE.

Toughness > CE

If you can take extend then both those spells will last about 5 minutes next mod.

[Geonis]

My Pally/Monk is along the lines of:

Halfling 32pt

Str 12 - +1 tome + 5 item=18
Dex 18 - +2 APs + 4 level up + 6 item + 2 tome = 32
Con 14 = +6 item = 20
Int 8
Wis 14 - +1 tome + 1 AP (Monk) + 6 item = 22
Cha 12 - +2 APs + 2 tome +6 item = 22

Feats

TWF - 3
ITWF - 6
GTWF - 12
Pwr Atk - Monk
Extend - 15
Toughness - Monk
Imp Crit:Pierce - 9
Weapon Finesse - 1


Levels

Pal 1-6
Monk 7-8
Pal 9-16

Skill Points
UMD - Every level - 9.5 ranks + 6 Cha + 4 GH +6 GS item = 25.5
Balance - Rest of SP at monk levels
Tumble - 1 pt at Monk level 1


With dual Holy Sword Rapiers, Zeal, Divine Favor, Pwr Atk, and Smites, the DPS is pretty good.

Currently also using a set of Air 2 Light Pick/ +5 Shocking Burst Light pick of Maiming, you need to see the crit Exalted Smite numbers with those!


No real uber loot, a pair of triple air SP goggles, and an Air 2 lt pick, that's it other than my near perfect DT outfit (+5 resist, +5 protect, +3 dodge AC).

[QuantumFX]

I disagree,

UMD > a mild increase in DPS or AC

Don’t forget: on a paladin CHA = DPS thanks to Divine Might.

[kuro_zero]

Here's the human STR version from memory - only minimal tomes were inputted and enhancements haven't been done for time conservation. Toughness, CE, and PA, Extend Spell at 18.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00 
DDO Character Planner Home Page  

Level 16 Lawful Good Human Male 
(14 Paladin / 2 Monk) 
Hit Points: 226 
Spell Points: 145 

BAB: 15/15/20/2525 
Fortitude: 17 
Reflex: 13 
Will: 10 

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement 
Abilities    Base Stats    Modified Stats 
(32 Point)    (Level 1)      (Level 16) 
Strength           14                18 
Dexterity          15                17 
Constitution       14                14 
Intelligence       11                13 
Wisdom             11                11 
Charisma           14                14 

Tomes Used 
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1 
 
              Starting      Feat/Enhancement 
             Base Skills  Modified Skills 
Skills       (Level 1)      (Level 16) 
Balance            7              22 
Bluff              2              2 
Concentration      2              2 
Diplomacy          2              2 
Disable Device     n/a            n/a 
Haggle             2              2 
Heal               0              0 
Hide               3              3 
Intimidate         3.5            11.5 
Jump               6              10 
Listen             0              0 
Move Silently      3              3 
Open Lock          n/a            n/a 
Perform            n/a            n/a 
Repair             1              1 
Search             1              1 
Spot               4              4 
Swim               2              4 
Tumble             4              4 
Use Magic Device   4              11.5 
 
Level 1 (Monk) 
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting 
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness 
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting 
 
Level 2 (Paladin) 
 
Level 3 (Paladin) 
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh 
 
Level 4 (Paladin) 
 
Level 5 (Paladin) 
 
Level 6 (Paladin) 
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack 
 
Level 7 (Paladin) 
 
Level 8 (Paladin) 
 
Level 9 (Monk) 
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise 
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting 
 
Level 10 (Paladin) 
 
Level 11 (Paladin) 
 
Level 12 (Paladin) 
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons 
 
Level 13 (Paladin) 
 
Level 14 (Paladin) 
 
Level 15 (Paladin) 
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting 

Level 16 (Paladin)

[binnsr]

.. near perfect DT outfit (+5 resist, +5 protect, +3 dodge AC).

I hate you!
Sitting on +5 Resist, +5 Protect and ... wait for it ... Superior Combustion VII! on my kensai tempest.. got tired of running sorjek with him, so thats what he's living with for now.

[riexau]

Dunno, with the new grazing blows in mod 9 hitting on a 15+, I think that toughness is still better than CE.

To be fair, you could take CE and toughness with 2 monk, but I'd rather take 2x toughness myself. Different playstyles obviously.

On thet topic of mod9, I also wouldn't take UMD on a pally. Just me though.

[Angelus_dead]

Don’t forget: on a paladin CHA = DPS thanks to Divine Might.

But it costs a lot of build points to go from 8 cha up to where you can qualify for even DM 1. (Obviously drow really helps)